A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[RedV3x]

Any upgrades will obviously cost money so who pays for that?
If the local authority does they will want their money back in rent

You answered your own question.

And increased rental from sports teams

There you go. Not so hard after all.

 

[RedV3x]

It is the spiritual home of women's cricket in this country.

That's great news for theirsupporters - both of them.

IJust because there is an oval there, doesn't make it the right fit for AFL. It would just be cheaper to build elsewhere and start from scratch.

Because there is an oval there, makes it the right fit for Australian Rules Football.
It would be horrendously expensive to build elsewhere and start from scratch.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

You'd only be getting rid of one stand by the looks, wouldn't affect the main entry or the tree and could just turn the new area into a grass hill. The cost would be minimal but the income from an increase in sports with paid for entry would be significant.
View attachment 1102536

Yeah, that's probably the likely direction it would have to go and change the orientation around quite drastically. Out of interest, how wide would it be like that?

 

[RedV3x]

The question for mine is will another nursery in NSW gain an interest when the Giants experiment already shows that no matter how much future talent you fill it with, as soon as they prove their worth they get poached.

Since the introduction of the Giants, so much more AFL talent has remained in NSW than in the past.

 

[Colonial]

The question for mine is will another nursery in NSW gain an interest when the Giants experiment already shows that no matter how much future talent you fill it with, as soon as they prove their worth they get poached.

Not all of them.

 

[RedV3x]

Out of interest, how wide would it be like that?

If you orient the ground longwise down to the North Sydney Memorial then length isn't a problem but 165m for best shape.
The width between the Greg Chappell and the Bob stand (which kicks in) is 130m.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Any potential third NSW side should be in Newcastle and the one after that should be in Illawarra/Wollongong. Aside from Tassie and Canberra, the only places that make sense for more expansion are NSW/QLD because they have the population for more sides and regions that with enough investment could become hotbeds for footy. These places also have varying levels of success in other national sporting leagues and they are on the doorstep of the biggest city in Australia so it's not comparable to giving a team to Dubbo or Coffs Harbour.

Wouldn't expect to see either happen any time soon but they're the most bankable areas to build teams in for NSW because putting more teams in Sydney just cannibalizes the Swans and Giants whereas taking the AFL regional gives the game more reach for supporters and future players. And geographically it works too because you'll cover north, south east and west with each side.

I like the long-term inclusion of Newcastle. That's why I think the Giants should play a couple of games a year there when Canberra gets a team.

 

[Established1870]

I like the long-term inclusion of Newcastle. That's why I think the Giants should play a couple of games a year there when Canberra gets a team.

Isn't Newcastle and that area more Swans than Giants? For whatever reason I've always thought Western Sydney was more connected with the southern areas so I would think getting games in Illawarra/Wollongong would be better but I seriously have NFI on any of what I've just said so I'll let someone else correct me here if I'm wrong.

 

[NoobPie]

Isn't Newcastle and that area more Swans than Giants? For whatever reason I've always thought Western Sydney was more connected with the southern areas so I would think getting games in Illawarra/Wollongong would be better but I seriously have NFI on any of what I've just said so I'll let someone else correct me here if I'm wrong.

Isaac Heeney and I thought one of the more recent Swans academy players are from the hunter

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Since the introduction of the Giants, so much more AFL talent has remained in NSW than in the past.

Obviously, theres two lists to fill now, but the point remains, nothing has come from it as the elite have all been poached.

Anyone who cant see the correlation between creating additional teams to expose 80 more young talented players to AFL standards and free agency that allows heartland clubs to poach them when they reach their prime, isnt looking.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Not all of them.

They cant take all 40, they take what they need.
Its a much better proposition for 10 clubs to top up from 8 than 6 and its better again from 9 or 10.

 

[Colonial]

They cant take all 40, they take what they need.
Its a much better proposition for 10 clubs to top up from 8 than 6 and its better again from 9 or 10.

yes we have had trouble retaining players especially after last season, but Greene, Haynes, Cogs, Whitfield all signed for life and they are the best players we have had in those positions.

Edit. I should add that Greene, Haynes and Whitfield all re-signed early in with no fuss and for less than what was on offer elsewhere.
Cogs obviously took till the end but also signed on for less per year than what was on offer elsewhere.

 

[NoobPie]

yes we have had trouble retaining players especially after last season, but Greene, Haynes, Cogs, Whitfield all signed for life and they are the best players we have had in those positions.

That's right, these are significantly better players than, say, the Suns best one club player. Add in Davis and Ward as young recruits at start up who have played through and it is hard to conclude anything but that the Giants have done very well in getting career commitment from top shelf players

 

[BringBackTorps]

1.

Northern Suburbs & Manly have among largest player catchment in Australia

Sydney's WS has by far the largest soccer participant nos. in Australia- which makes the WSW' appalling ratings (c. 5k per A League game on Fox, for all areas of Sydney, pop. 5.3m) shocking.

Furthermore, soccer GR "participation" nos. (similar to "walking", "swimming" etc. also ranked highly in the Sports Australia survey- that surveys only 1/1000 people- counts "participants" as a person who has done a sport or activity just once in the last 12 months!) have very little relevance for GR AF nos.
AF, RL, & RU are sports that require much courage to play- soccer ( & other non-contact sports) does not.

The A League's abysmal Fox ratings, c. 15k average nationally, demonstrate the A League is becoming almost irrelevant in Aust. A League has many games in Prime Time every week (inc. the "gold- standard" Sunday evenings!). Conversely, Swans & GWS have nearly all games on Sat. & Sun. afternoons- "dead time" for ratings.

The only direct competitor for GR AF in NSW, ACT, & Qld. is RL & RU (but all sports compete for sponsorship & Council & govt. funding).

The question for mine is will another nursery in NSW gain an interest when the Giants experiment already shows that no matter how much future talent you fill it with, as soon as they prove their worth they get poached.

This is incorrect- as per General Giant response to you, GWS has retained its most valuable players (hopefully, Kelly will re-sign).
The only exception is J. Cameron, but he had form, injury, &/or suspension problems in his last 2 years at GWS, & is still injured with Geelong.
T. Boyd, J. Patton, D. Sheil, T. Scully have all had form/"behavioural"/injury problems...& Collingwood decided it no longer required A. Treloar.

There are a record no. of NSW/ACT locals playing in the AFL- 50+, & GR AF nos. are having strong growth.

L. Parks, a St Ives local, had his debut for Carlton recently.

Parks named to make Carlton debut this weekend

Confirmed by Carlton's Senior Coach David Teague on Thursday, former St Ives and North Shore product Luke Parks will make his AFL debut against Fremantle at Marvel Stadium.

aflnswact.com.au

There is plenty of room to expand the oval to AFL standards without touching any buildings

When was Nth Sydney's actual oval reduced in size?
And was the NSO & hill area etc./ actual footprint actually reduced also ie was the general park land area increased in size?






2. Fox Sports M. Balmer 14.4.21

L. Montagna said

"Errol Gulden is the best inside 50[kick] for the competition, for a guy that has played 4 games, that's amazing".

The winning numbers behind AFL’s ‘money kick’ – and the shock Swan leading the comp

The winning numbers behind AFL’s ‘money kick’ – and the shock Swan leading the comp

www.foxsports.com.au

Gulden, a Sydney local, whose father is Turkish & had no interest in AF, is an example of the top shelf silky skilled athletes the AFL is now getting from Sydney (& NSW, ACT, Qld.). It is extraordinary that a 1st year player is, arguably, the best kick in the AFL now- AFAIK no precedents in the VFL/AFL re a 1st year player.

Prior to covid, the ABS predicted Sydney would have a pop. of c. 8.5m in 2050 (but probably a lower ABS forecast now, with immigration cut strongly for a few years). It is almost inevitable there will be a 3rd team in Sydney- it's simply too huge (after GWS regularly has lockout crowds).





3. Thought I would throw this in here.

I have always thought the Molongolo Juggernauts (ACT League, near Weston Creek) had the best club name in Aust.- but I just recently discovered they might have the worst jumper. The white "squiggle" on the front of the jumper is supposed to represent 2 bends in the Murrumbidgee river!

Incidentally, the game's founder, Tom Wills, was born in a tent in the Molongolo region in 1835. His father, Horatio, had just taken land in the Molongolo.

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(See the many photos of "river thingy").

 

[RedV3x]

They cant take all 40, they take what they need.
Its a much better proposition for 10 clubs to top up from 8 than 6 and its better again from 9 or 10.

You talking about the a,ho.le.ague ?

 

[RedV3x]

Isn't Newcastle and that area more Swans than Giants?

Swans have usually spend some time in Coffs Harbour.
I cannot remember much action in Newcastle which IMO is lacking.

 

[BobbyMorri]

That's great news for theirsupporters - both of them.

Stupid statement.

They had 88K for an MCG final. They are one of the most popular women's sporting team in this land. They have sold out North Sydney Oval twice for the WBBL finals. That final rated at 430K on 7, very respctable as it was not on the main channel FTA channel.

Because there is an oval there, makes it the right fit for Australian Rules Football.
It would be horrendously expensive to build elsewhere and start from scratch.

That is simplistic thinking. . just because there is an oval, doesn't mean it is the right fit for professional AFL.

There are several ovals down in Hobart, built-in much better places(North Hobart, TCA, Sandy Bay) than Boot Park. They can't or won't be upgraded due to their size or history and location(houses). I don't know much about Sydney or North Sydney Oval, but the place reminds me of the TCA down here. No Tasmanian really wants to build on that oval for an AFL team.

North Sydney is great. And I say this as someone who never been there. Good luck convincing the locals, who I am guessing love the park around it, and the cricket plus others who are already using it extensively.

 

[Bjo187]

Stupid statement.

They had 88K for an MCG final. They are one of the most popular women's sporting team in this land. They have sold out North Sydney Oval twice for the WBBL finals. That final rated at 430K on 7, very respctable as it was not on the main channel FTA channel.





That is simplistic thinking. . just because there is an oval, doesn't mean it is the right fit for professional AFL.

There are several ovals down in Hobart, built-in much better places(North Hobart, TCA, Sandy Bay) than Boot Park. They can't or won't be upgraded due to their size or history and location(houses). I don't know much about Sydney or North Sydney Oval, but the place reminds me of the TCA down here. No Tasmanian really wants to build on that oval for an AFL team.

North Sydney is great. And I say this as someone who never been there. Good luck convincing the locals, who I am guessing love the park around it, and the cricket plus others who are already using it extensively.

So a sport that has barely any following in usual times and can rope off the field anyway, would have precedence over a bunch of ticketed afl games per year, plus potential BBL games etc. If i were on the board of NSO I know which way i'd be voting.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

You talking about the a,ho.le.ague ?

Im talking about a pro Victorian league which was desperate in 06 to make its heartland relevant again to the point of holding inquests.
Until GWS and GC enteted the league they either blooded their own youth or plundered the other 6 but that is unsustainable as the demand from 10 clubs outweighs the supply when the supply base is only 6 clubs.
Enter GWS/GC and with it 80 more spots to expose yout via, throw in FA and just as they hit their prime, theyre cherry ripe for picking.
Look at the other non traditional clubs who were all afforded state teams and with the exception of Freo, claimed silverware.
Compare their fortunes to a heavily stacked with elite talent at startup GC/GWS and the difference is obvious, theyve been ransacked.
How does this relate to the thread topic, if you were a neutral and the AFL put a team in your neighbourhood would you bother getting on board as an invested fan knowing what has transpired and that the likelihood of realising success is heavily stacked against you.

 

[RedV3x]

How does this relate to the thread topic,

It doesn't IMO.

if you were a neutral and the AFL put a team in your neighbourhood would you bother getting on board

Yes. I opened many Sydneysiders to Australian Rules Football. Some are more passionate than me.

the likelihood of realising success is heavily stacked against you.

You'd have to be pretty thick to think premierships routinely come around in a league of 18 teams.
That's one of the negatives in expanding to 20 teams - realistic expectations get further removed.

 

[RedV3x]

They had 88K for an MCG final.

The MCG is in MELBOURNE.

They are one of the most popular women's sporting team in this land.

"One" WOW. Which one ? The Swans could base their AFLW side at N.S. and get regular crowds.

They have sold out North Sydney Oval twice for the WBBL finals.

"Twice' WOW. And they play this game on an oval right, like other AFL ovals.

That final rated at 430K on 7, very respctable as it was not on the main channel FTA channel.

WOW. Think what it might have rated at a decent oval.

 

[RedV3x]

I don't know much about Sydney or North Sydney Oval,

Obviously

North Sydney is great. And I say this as someone who never been there.

Good luck convincing the locals, who I am guessing love the park around it, and the cricket plus others who are already using it extensively.

Because you yourself have admitted that you know nothing about N.S. Oval then I suggest you read and follow the remarks of those more knowledgeable.
We have been talking about extending the oval at N.S. Oval. WITHIN THE EXISTING BOUNDARIES of N.S. Oval.
No part of the surrounding park need be touched and no buildings need to be removed.
Cricket will be IMPROVED because the N.S. shape (a truly odd shape) would become a true oval.
Locals will love the redevelopment because N.S. is the home of the N.S. Bombers.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

You'd have to be pretty thick to think premierships routinely come around in a league of 18 teams.

Im fairly sure Clarko said on 360 earlier in the week that the system is setup for clubs to win a flag every 18yrs, so unless youre calling a 4x Premiership coach thick too..

Providing an avenue like FA which encourages developed players to leave the club thats invested so much contradicts that notion of an equal chance for all, especially when the majority of talent comes from 1 state and excuses are made for returning home.
Im sure if you look at the stats there are far more players heading back to strengthen Victorian clubs than vice versa.

As i said, with those avenues put in place by the league, conveniently following that 06 inquest, the likelihood of new teams realising success is well below that of established clubs and even less chance against heartland clubs.

But if you think another 40 or 80 list spots for Vicco's to develop their future Premiership stars is a worthwhile thing then go uour hardest.
Time will tell.

 

[Pippen94]

Obviously






Because you yourself have admitted that you know nothing about N.S. Oval then I suggest you read and follow the remarks of those more knowledgeable.
We have been talking about extending the oval at N.S. Oval. WITHIN THE EXISTING BOUNDARIES of N.S. Oval.
No part of the surrounding park need be touched and no buildings need to be removed.
Cricket will be IMPROVED because the N.S. shape (a truly odd shape) would become a true oval.
Locals will love the redevelopment because N.S. is the home of the N.S. Bombers.

Sure, locals love to see park land reduced & heritage structures destroyed. Not forgetting Bears still play there along with women's & rugby matches.
Locals would want bears to come

 

[Colonial]

Sure, locals love to see park land reduced & heritage structures destroyed. Not forgetting Bears still play there along with women's & rugby matches.
Locals would want bears to come

Didn’t your club just get a brand new stadium that destroyed the surrounds at Parramatta?