A thread on politics- have some balls and post

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Commenting on issues of the Middle East is like trying to unmake soup. I know none of you can unmake soup so get of your high horses.
 
Billy Puller said:
Commenting on issues of the Middle East is like trying to unmake soup. I know none of you can unmake soup so get of your high horses.
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I know the Middle East is a mess, but it is worth asking whose interests are being served by maintaining the current state of affairs? I have always been a fan of the Rule of Law and in international relations that means working through the processes of the United Nations. At present Israel is occupying the sovereign territory of other nations, most notably in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, having done so since 1967 after the Six Day War. Palestinians in these territories have been subjected to ongoing brutality ever since. The United Nations has passed numerous resolutions since condemning Israel and demanding that Israel return to it's 1967 borders, but these are ignored. If we accept that we need an organisation like the United Nations to maintain international law and call rogue nations to account, we should be deeply concerned by Israel's failure to comply with international norms.

Here is the latest UN Security Council resolution in relation to the illegal Israeli Occupation the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2334

Below is the full list of UN resolutions relating to Israel. It is worth reading as a background to the matter of the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the oppression of the Palestinian people. Also interesting are resolutions dealing with Israel's position on Nuclear Weapons and their proliferation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
 
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3KZ is Football said:
I know the Middle East is a mess, but it is worth asking whose interests are being served by maintaining the current state of affairs? I have always been a fan of the Rule of Law and in international relations that means working through the processes of the United Nations. At present Israel is occupying the sovereign territory of other nations, most notably in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, having done so since 1967 after the Six Day War. Palestinians in these territories have been subjected to ongoing brutality ever since. The United Nations has passed numerous resolutions since condemning Israel and demanding that Israel return to it's 1967 borders, but these are ignored. If we accept that we need an organisation like the United Nations to maintain international law and call rogue nations to account, we should be deeply concerned by Israel's failure to comply with international norms.l
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I was under the impression that the 1967 borders were actually the cease fire line after the Israelis were invaded by Jordan et al and that the actual legal borders of Israel under the League/UN Treaty included those areas and that it is in fact the occupied west bank but that the occupiers were the Arabs not the Israelis. I can find the link I got that from if needed.
 
Viceregal said:
I was under the impression that the 1967 borders were actually the cease fire line after the Israelis were invaded by Jordan et al and that the actual legal borders of Israel under the League/UN Treaty included those areas and that it is in fact the occupied west bank but that the occupiers were the Arabs not the Israelis. I can find the link I got that from if needed.
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Hard to "occupy" your own land.
 
My first job was working for a small Jewish company when the 6 day war happened. I really can't remember the nitty grittys except the stress they felt, which upset me as they were wonderful people, always very kind to this young girl embarking on her working life in the big wide world.

Always think of them when I hear this subject mentioned..
 
MacMum said:
Have no problems with that if they don't want to kill us or bring disharmony to my country.

I welcome anyone as long as they come in peace.
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You realise by "in your backyard" I literally meant "in YOUR backyard" right?

Regardless, I can't fathom for a second how "I knew a nice Jewish couple once" anecdote is in ANY WAY a meaningful piece of information for trying to comprehend something as complex and nuanced with history, religion, tribalism and conflict as the Israel/Palestine issue.

Please don't act unduly offended by this, presumably you posted here because you were interested in a discussion. It just seemed a very odd and non-applicable anecdote.
 
You really are something. I posted that, I guess remembering a time gone by. Sorry, if my post of nothingness got up your nose.

If that is how you are with people in real life, good luck.
 
3KZ is Football said:
I know the Middle East is a mess, but it is worth asking whose interests are being served by maintaining the current state of affairs? I have always been a fan of the Rule of Law and in international relations that means working through the processes of the United Nations. At present Israel is occupying the sovereign territory of other nations, most notably in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, having done so since 1967 after the Six Day War. Palestinians in these territories have been subjected to ongoing brutality ever since. The United Nations has passed numerous resolutions since condemning Israel and demanding that Israel return to it's 1967 borders, but these are ignored. If we accept that we need an organisation like the United Nations to maintain international law and call rogue nations to account, we should be deeply concerned by Israel's failure to comply with international norms.

Here is the latest UN Security Council resolution in relation to the illegal Israeli Occupation the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2334

Below is the full list of UN resolutions relating to Israel. It is worth reading as a background to the matter of the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the oppression of the Palestinian people. Also interesting are resolutions dealing with Israel's position on Nuclear Weapons and their proliferation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
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Unfortunately all talk no action. Beating of the chest to show the rest of the UN members that they are going 'tough' on Israel but in reality they don't really give a s**t. You have to feel sorry for the Palestinians who have been run down since the ink was still wet on the Balfour declaration. A lot of conspiracy theories round that declaration as well... all I will say.
 

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SizeMatters said:
what does this even mean? o_O
the middle east is a s**t hole, I think that's all that is needed to be known. A s**t hole with loads of oil though.
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It's a metaphor mate.
Imagine that the Middle East is the boiling pot. All the different cultures/nationalities/religions are the ingridients. The flames been added and they're all cooked up. Now try and unmake the soup you've made.

You can't unmake soup.

You can't fix the Middle East.

Sittin here talkin about the UN and Jews and all that s**t is such a wank. The problems there have been going on for a thousand years.

The problems will continue to go on for a thousand years.

To even attempt to discuss a solution is so naive. There are that many parties involved it's ridiculous.
 
SizeMatters said:
what does this even mean? o_O
the middle east is a s**t hole, I think that's all that is needed to be known. A s**t hole with loads of oil though.
Click to expand...
I've lived and travelled exstensivley through the Middle East. The people are beautiful, the country's are beautiful. The reefs I snorkelled on in Jordan make the Great Barrier Reef look like a s**t hole.

s**t hole isn't the word I'd use. Too many clashing cultures in too little space.
 
Billy Puller said:
It's a metaphor mate.
Imagine that the Middle East is the boiling pot. All the different cultures/nationalities/religions are the ingridients. The flames been added and they're all cooked up. Now try and unmake the soup you've made.

You can't unmake soup.

You can't fix the Middle East.

Sittin here talkin about the UN and Jews and all that s**t is such a wank. The problems there have been going on for a thousand years.

The problems will continue to go on for a thousand years.

To even attempt to discuss a solution is so naive. There are that many parties involved it's ridiculous.
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Yep, I don't think we're splitting the atom or mapping the human gnome any time soon here in Lions BF world Billy Puller , if we think we are we may be getting ahead of ourselves or suffering from a severe case of delusions of grandeur syndrome.

Our prime meaning for existence on BF is to espouse our learned views on all things AFL.
 
Billy Puller said:
It's a metaphor mate.
Imagine that the Middle East is the boiling pot. All the different cultures/nationalities/religions are the ingridients. The flames been added and they're all cooked up. Now try and unmake the soup you've made.

You can't unmake soup.

You can't fix the Middle East.

Sittin here talkin about the UN and Jews and all that s**t is such a wank. The problems there have been going on for a thousand years.

The problems will continue to go on for a thousand years.

To even attempt to discuss a solution is so naive. There are that many parties involved it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
So we just ignore the systematic and brutal repression of the Palestinian People, relegating them to the "too hard basket" of history. I just don't think that is fair.
 
Viceregal said:
I was under the impression that the 1967 borders were actually the cease fire line after the Israelis were invaded by Jordan et al and that the actual legal borders of Israel under the League/UN Treaty included those areas and that it is in fact the occupied west bank but that the occupiers were the Arabs not the Israelis. I can find the link I got that from if needed.
Click to expand...
Borders as of 4th June, 1967.
 
3KZ is Football said:
So we just ignore the systematic and brutal repression of the Palestinian People, relegating them to the "too hard basket" of history. I just don't think that is fair.
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I think Billy was just saying we can't solve it here 3KZ with a hint of sarcasm thrown in, yes we can be empathetic and compassionate but IMO it is in the "too hard basket" for us here on BF. I am not familiar enough with the situation in the middle east to even offer an opinion but if anyone has a solution I think they should give up their day job and apply for one at the UN problems solving section.
 
3KZ is Football said:
So we just ignore the systematic and brutal repression of the Palestinian People, relegating them to the "too hard basket" of history. I just don't think that is fair.
Click to expand...
I'm not asking us to ignore him but honestly what can we do? Throwing a bunch of links around a footy forum ain't gonna help anyone.

We're all very very small fish in a pond so big I don't think we ourselves even realise.

When you really think about it our existence is not even a skid mark on the underpants of society.

Terrible things happened in the past, they happen now and they'll continue to happen. The best we can do is try and lift those around us. People we can actually help
 
Billy Puller said:
It's a metaphor mate.
Imagine that the Middle East is the boiling pot. All the different cultures/nationalities/religions are the ingridients. The flames been added and they're all cooked up. Now try and unmake the soup you've made.

You can't unmake soup.

You can't fix the Middle East.

Sittin here talkin about the UN and Jews and all that s**t is such a wank. The problems there have been going on for a thousand years.

The problems will continue to go on for a thousand years.

To even attempt to discuss a solution is so naive. There are that many parties involved it's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I agree that it's been in conflict for a long time and also agree that the UN is a wank, but it certainly doesn't help that the 'west' will always have a hand with the governance of the middle east as long as their assets are in political danger. You can't tell me the forced relocation and brutality inflicted upon the Palestinians by the Jewish state is acceptable because problems have been there for thousands of years? It's been a manufactured conflict by foreign powers and not some scuffle over which rival village has the best camels.

When we break it all down there really is not much difference between the jewish state and the islamic state. Just so happens one is backed by the West and the other isn't. Not that I agree with either just some food for thought.
 
Billy Puller said:
Terrible things happened in the past, they happen now and they'll continue to happen. The best we can do is try and lift those around us. People we can actually help
Click to expand...
Brilliant BP, live your life on a family and community level the best you can, it all starts at home.

Not saying you can't discuss and spitball ideas around but get a bit of perspective on where we/me stand in the grand scheme of things re geopolitical matters.

As far as the elites of the world are concerned we are just pawns to be exploited for power and money IMO.
 
MacMum said:
You really are something. I posted that, I guess remembering a time gone by. Sorry, if my post of nothingness got up your nose.

If that is how you are with people in real life, good luck.
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So dramatic. What you describe as "getting up my nose" was merely utter bemusement and confusion.

I genuinely didn't know it was merely a wistful anecdote entirely separate to the discussion, being the politics thread I assumed it was an attempt to weigh in rather than "oh they're talking about the Israel/Palestine situation, I knew 2 Jewish people once, I should tell them". What was your desired response to that anecdote under best case scenario where the reader wasn't horribly confused?

Easier to just continue posting odd stuff and then get offended when someone inevitably gets confused.

I do love though Maccers how every one of our head buttings end with you always making a personal assessment while claiming the moral high ground at the same time. If expressing confusion at a post causes this much consternation I couldn't possibly imagine the depths of the outrage if I was to make aspersions on how you relate to people in real life.
 
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