A thread on politics- have some balls and post

May 3, 2005
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Is “low emission coal plant” some word trickery like “clean coal”? Or is it some legit new technology?

the hydroelectric investment is encouraging though.
 
Sep 14, 2012
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Is “low emission coal plant” some word trickery like “clean coal”? Or is it some legit new technology?

the hydroelectric investment is encouraging though.
Increases efficiency of electricity generation. You will use less coal for similar output of a traditional coal fired power station. So word play in the sense that the choice words for the release softens it for the public... but somewhat true too. Politics to appease the Nationals is all this is.

Tech been around for a bit now, but costs involved to build a new power station (of any kind) is crazy. Think one of my colleagues told me that it takes 20 years on average to break even on a coal fired power station, and that was in the days of a fully centralised grid with coal the numero uno raking in the dollars. If they include carbon capture and storage the cost per MWh generated will be so unreasonable (compared to wind/solar or even current gas/coal generators) that it will never get a positive return.

IMHO, doubt this will get to too far in a free market due to poor financials, but also knowing this government... anything is possible. They will back anything. Look at Liddell... I've read the draft report. Very interesting reading.
 
I'm dining out on the dissent and division at the moment in the born to rule party.

Just wish Labor wasn't chasing them down the right wing rabbit hole. They will always be second rate when it comes to political pragmatism and selling cruelty because they try to keep a foot in the camp pretending that they aren't.

Seeing ignorant/wilfully deceptive dickheads pushing a narrative like there's a credible left in Australia and it's some kind of threat (when there's just the Greens and nothing left-wing about Labor since Whitlam just boils my piss). The small l liberal right and the conservative right have weaponised identity politics so much that class consciousness has completely faded away.

Two colleagues at work were talking about education the other day and how it's failing kids and they seemed to think it needs to become more vocational and skills based... That's exactly the direction that education has gone over the last 25 years which has made it turn to s**t.

Learning "job ready" skills in controlled environments that don't hold up in the real world because they aren't keeping pace with change when they should be developing critical thinking and adaptability to go along with it. Of course there are elite schools and individual teachers in public schools who manage to buck the trend but it takes some real resilience to stick around in the public system in a regular school in a lower socio-economic area because the system is geared towards failure and mediocrity.

It's easy to understand teachers, in those circumstances, when a cushy private school job comes up with small class sizes, good resourcing and reimbursement for personal spending on teaching materials - as well as better pay rates in general - jump ship when they have the credentials and track-record.

Now both major parties pass a Senate vote for an ultra-nationalist pledge of allegiance daily in schools. Bugger me, aren't they setting what's going on in the world stage at the moment? Thank Satan its non-binding. Side-note: I'll be busting my statue of Baphomet out of storage if this non-sensical bill to protect religions from discrimination by giving them the right to discriminate against whoever the * they want.

That rant got a little long-winded and side-tracked. Needless to say I'm not impressed with the direction this country will be heading in the next 3 years. Too many people I care about will be suffering genuine harm and threats to their well-being from the social and economic headwinds and there's a certain inevitability to a collapse that I am ill-equipped to deal with if my support networks are put under the server strains I'm anticipating.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Is “low emission coal plant” some word trickery like “clean coal”? Or is it some legit new technology?

the hydroelectric investment is encouraging though.

Watched Australia’s chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel National Press Club speech... Kick-starting Australia’s hydrogen industry by focusing on production from fossil fuels combined with carbon capture and storage technologies...rather than focusing on wind and solar. Interesting..Surprised tidal power (ocean energy) didn't get a mention.

 
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BangyBangy

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Watched Australia’s chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel National Press Club speech... Kick-starting Australia’s hydrogen industry by focusing on production from fossil fuels combined with carbon capture and storage technologies...rather than focusing on wind and solar. Interesting..Surprised tidal power (ocean energy) didn't get a mention.


Been ages since I watched a doco on it, but I got the impression that for tidal power to be effective it required big tidal swings from low to high tide. The only places here that tick that box are on the west coast in remote areas. Therefore generating the electricity is one thing, but being able to transport it becomes an issue.

Think it was one of the foxtel doco channels where they showed the design & construction of water turbines in a region of europe that experiences strong tides & currents. Yeah, amazing memory for detail I have I know lol.

Supplying infrastructure including power generation in a large continent with a seaboard population is always going to pose challenges that many Asian & European countries don't have to contend with. I think nuclear is the way to go.....As long as it is not built in my suburb....
 
Sep 14, 2012
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Watched Australia’s chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel National Press Club speech... Kick-starting Australia’s hydrogen industry by focusing on production from fossil fuels combined with carbon capture and storage technologies...rather than focusing on wind and solar. Interesting..Surprised tidal power (ocean energy) didn't get a mention.

Tidal power is rubbish. Maintenance costs are insane and produce little power in comparison to wind. Reason why ARENA has pulled funding on a few projects in Victoria. Millions sunk for little gain.
 
Sep 14, 2012
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Watched Australia’s chief scientist Dr Alan Finkel National Press Club speech... Kick-starting Australia’s hydrogen industry by focusing on production from fossil fuels combined with carbon capture and storage technologies...rather than focusing on wind and solar. Interesting..Surprised tidal power (ocean energy) didn't get a mention.

Should read some stuff from Ross Garnaut. His book Superpower is a must read for anyone interested in the energy space. Clean Hydrogen.
Also had a quick chat with Finkel not two days ago. Was in Canberra on business with the Climate Change Authority. He's obsessed with hydrogen to the point I think it's clouding his judgement lol. I do think hydrogen has a future, however it's a risk! A transition by utilising current fossil fuels to gauge an appetite for hydrogen is a good start. Just signed an agreement with Japan in the past few days... but they want "green" hydrogen. I reckon some carbon accounting would be in order to classify it "green".
 

jackess

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On Twiggy and Hydrogen energy. Fortescue have plans to become an exporter of hydrogen energy
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Tidal power is rubbish. Maintenance costs are insane and produce little power in comparison to wind. Reason why ARENA has pulled funding on a few projects in Victoria. Millions sunk for little gain.
Dunno how the Gladstone Port tidal trials are going???... I do know ARENA sunk $5.5 million into Melbourne company "Wave Swell Energy" based on the success of the UniWave200 at King & Flinders Islands. It's a modified bidirectional turbine which rotates in two directions, as opposed to other unidirectional turbines which rotate in one direction it provide stable, reliable power around the clock Unlike the unidirectional models. the Uniwave has no moving parts below the water which mean maintenance is only ever required to be performed on the easy-to-access areas of the device.
 
Sep 14, 2012
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Dunno how the Gladstone Port tidal trials are going???... I do know ARENA sunk $5.5 million into Melbourne company "Wave Swell Energy" based on the success of the UniWave200 at King & Flinders Islands. It's a modified bidirectional turbine which rotates in two directions, as opposed to other unidirectional turbines which rotate in one direction it provide stable, reliable power around the clock Unlike the unidirectional models. the Uniwave has no moving parts below the water which mean maintenance is only ever required to be performed on the easy-to-access areas of the device.
I can't recall where I read this but unidirectional turbines used in wave tech are not only cheaper to produce, but are more efficient and have less moving parts.

Not saying there isn't opportunity for wave powered generators, but it would almost exclusively be for islands with minimal land for other renewable generators such as wind/solar + storage. The output is just very, very small for a moderate to high risk.

The other advantage I can think of is that it could provide "baseload" power. At least in the sense that wave action is somewhat consistent no matter the time of day!
 

Crimso

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Geothermal is my favourite of the alternative/ renewable energy source with water supply / storage the only problem I know of, though there may be others. Seldom here it mentioned though.
 
Geothermal is my favourite of the alternative/ renewable energy source with water supply / storage the only problem I know of, though there may be others. Seldom here it mentioned though.
Less geothermal availability in Australia. There's some, but not on the scale of solar or wind. If AFL was an Icelandic sport things would be otherwise.
 
Does it have to be natural?
Doesn't really solve the problem if you have to create the geothermal energy yourself.

Molten salt CSP is something to look into for renewable thermal electricity that Australia can do a lot of.
 

Crimso

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Doesn't really solve the problem if you have to create the geothermal energy yourself.

Molten salt CSP is something to look into for renewable thermal electricity that Australia can do a lot of.

Yeah, that's high on the list of favourites and should attract more attention, especially since the salts can be stored in their molten state to keep the power flowing at night.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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I can't recall where I read this but unidirectional turbines used in wave tech are not only cheaper to produce, but are more efficient and have less moving parts.

Not saying there isn't opportunity for wave powered generators, but it would almost exclusively be for islands with minimal land for other renewable generators such as wind/solar + storage. The output is just very, very small for a moderate to high risk.

The other advantage I can think of is that it could provide "baseload" power. At least in the sense that wave action is somewhat consistent no matter the time of day!

Yep...them... along with remote communities and the increasing populations (The sea changers) along our coastlines
 
It seems to have gone quiet on nuclear that uses its own waste on creating Adirondack every that were being tied about eight years ago. Anyone know what happened there? Inability to prove the concept or just a general distaste for nuclear?
 
Nov 26, 2012
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It seems to have gone quiet on nuclear that uses its own waste on creating Adirondack every that were being tied about eight years ago. Anyone know what happened there? Inability to prove the concept or just a general distaste for nuclear?
Bit of both I think. Distaste might also be stopping anyone from doing the research needed to prove it
 
Bit of both I think. Distaste might also be stopping anyone from doing the research needed to prove it
Aww geeze. I hate when I see my post makes absolutely no sense when I look back later. Glad you speak my language.

For everyone else I was talking about the reactors theorised to be able to convert about 97% of the produced nuclear waste into more energy.
 
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Nuclear seems the obvious solution to me.... or is it too late now with the long time line required re the logistics to set it up?

I remember reading that it's basically too late now for it to be cost effective with the rapid development of alternatives, especially because - from what I understand - no nation actually sells the plans so we would have to design, engineer and build from scratch essentially.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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Yeah I think it boils down to high cost and long time to develop. And while their are theoretical options for low waste I dont think they are proven. So noone seems to want to consider dealing with the waste issue (real or imagined). That and so much fear from incidents like Fukashima (spelling?). Politically I just think its a no go as the electorate will never accept it
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Aww geeze. I hate when I see my post makes absolutely no sense when I look back later. Glad you speak my language.

For everyone else I was talking about the reactors theorised to be able to convert about 97% of the produced nuclear waste into more energy.
Same ( meaning mine not yours)
;)
 
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Crimso

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Aww geeze. I hate when I see my post makes absolutely no sense when I look back later. Glad you speak my language.

For everyone else I was talking about the reactors theorised to be able to convert about 97% of the produced nuclear waste into more energy.

Made sense to me until I realised you weren't talking about lawn chairs.
 

jackess

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Re-using and reducing food waste as well as making whitegoods and other electrical equipment upgradeable and repairable would be a big step forward.
 
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