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A vs B

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lingsface
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cats_09 said:
For some fun, what about looking at a few fringe or whipping boy pairings:

  • Charlie Constable or George Horlin-Smith?
  • Ryan Gamble or Charlie Gardner?
  • Jordan Murdoch or Brandan Parfitt?
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Constable Gardner Parfitt
 
standupand said:
Scarlett at his peak was possibly the better player - the era when he would defeat key forwards 1 v 1 and be an attacking weapon at the same time. But it was actually a short period. Harley, Taylor and Lonergan took the best key forwards in our dominant era. Scarlett was used as a loose man in d50 organizing the defence.
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Scarlett was still as good a player in 2007 as he was in 2004, regardless of whether he was matched up on the big banana or not.

His imperious period wasn't that short either - it was from the early 2000s, even when the rest of the side wasn't all that good.

Although I only caught the tail-end of Silvagni from 1993-on, I still think Scarlett was better, and certainly vastly better than any tall defender since. He revolutionised how much a defender could contribute toward attack, and pulverised opponents. The game where he kept Scott Welsh to 3 touches and had 30 himself was just ridiculous.
 
Seeds said:
Scott also wasted a gun side between 2016-21 with a deplorable ultra defensive strategy that simply did not hold up in finals. We should have won flags from the team when danger, selwood, hawkins and taylor were at their peaks along with a great support cast around them.
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We weren't a gun side in that era IMO. Don't forget, the top names were great, but their peaks didn't match up, and we were so, so hollow in the middle of our age profile at the time... and we had no natural small forwards bar perhaps Fat Motlop.

Hawkins wasn't a great player between 2013 and 2019 inclusive - his back still wasn't great, he was too big, too immobile. By the late 2010s, Selwood and Taylor were no longer at the peak of their respective powers, which was really 2013-ish.

Don't get me wrong, I did not like the defensive, slow, predictable ball movement of the Geelong sides of that era - in fact, I hated it. But I don't think we were anything like a gun side.
 

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iameviljez said:
We weren't a gun side in that era IMO. Don't forget, the top names were great, but their peaks didn't match up, and we were so, so hollow in the middle of our age profile at the time... and we had no natural small forwards bar perhaps Fat Motlop.

Hawkins wasn't a great player between 2013 and 2019 inclusive - his back still wasn't great, he was too big, too immobile. By the late 2010s, Selwood and Taylor were no longer at the peak of their respective powers, which was really 2013-ish.

Don't get me wrong, I did not like the defensive, slow, predictable ball movement of the Geelong sides of that era - in fact, I hated it. But I don't think we were anything like a gun side.
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Hawkins would of averaged above 50 goals in a season for that period.
 
cats_09 said:
For some fun, what about looking at a few fringe or whipping boy pairings:

  • Charlie Constable or George Horlin-Smith?
  • Ryan Gamble or Charlie Gardner?
  • Jordan Murdoch or Brandan Parfitt?
Click to expand...
Parfitt and Constable now teammates at Perth fc, another 33 and 35 possesions last night and the side is as strong as they have been in decades.
 
Lingsface said:
Hawkins would of averaged above 50 goals in a season for that period.
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Despite his back issues, Hawkins wasn't the problem besides 2013 (where he was absolutely crippled). It was the fact we had no second key forward and some really poor small forwards - we could only manage one or two half decent ones at a time. Even adding Rohan and Ablett to the forward line in 2019 massively helped, but that still wasn't enough.
 
Mr Meow said:
Despite his back issues, Hawkins wasn't the problem besides 2013 (where he was absolutely crippled). It was the fact we had no second key forward and some really poor small forwards - we could only manage one or two half decent ones at a time
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Oh and a fit ruckman would have been handy.
 
Mr Meow said:
Sorry, I was referring to the forward line specifically.
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Fair enough. FWIW, I also agree with you on that count.

Although Hawkins' immobility was awful, it didn't help that SJ and Stokes had moved up into the midfield, and our only natural small forwards left were Motlop, who was brilliant that year, and Chapman, who of course got himself suspended for that PF.
 
iameviljez said:
Correct, but he still wasn't as good as he was in 2020-23, in my opinion. I know he still posted decent numbers, but he was a much better footballer in the last five years of his career.
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I think he was still a star of the competition though lead our goal kicking everyone of those years, in a pretty successful era. He only had one all Australian in 2019 but there was pretty much a star full forward in every grand final side in that era, Kennedy Franklin Roughead Reiwoldt.

Agree with you about him being at his best in 2020-2023. But still can’t discredit him on what a fine and consistent performer he was for his whole career.

Pretty much from the 2011 grand final onwards he was in a very high gear.
 
Lingsface said:
Parfitt and Constable now teammates at Perth fc, another 33 and 35 possesions last night and the side is as strong as they have been in decades.
Click to expand...
Both would have excelled in the 1980s IMO, where line-breaking, pinpoint kicking and athleticism wasn't as important as the ability to find the footy and move it on.
 

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Lingsface said:
I think he was still a star of the competition though lead our goal kicking everyone of those years, in a pretty successful era. He only had one all Australian in 2019 but there was pretty much a star full forward in every grand final side in that era, Kennedy Franklin Roughead Reiwoldt.
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I don't think he was quite a star in that period of 2013-19. Maybe 2019 at a stretch.

If his whole career had followed the outputs of those years, he would have been seen as a Cam Mooney level of player - very good, but a step below a star. It's 2012 and 2020-22 that really elevated him.
 
Lingsface said:
I think he was still a star of the competition though lead our goal kicking everyone of those years, in a pretty successful era. He only had one all Australian in 2019 but there was pretty much a star full forward in every grand final side in that era, Kennedy Franklin Roughead Reiwoldt.

Agree with you about him being at his best in 2020-2023. But still can’t discredit him on what a fine and consistent performer he was for his whole career.

Pretty much from the 2011 grand final onwards he was in a very high gear.
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His best season was 2012. Before he did his back. Most goals he ever kicked in a season and he was taking big pack marks back then, not just lead up and one on one wrestling marks. Sadly we were robbed of hawkins best from that point foward due to that effing back injury.
 
Seeds said:
His best season was 2012. Before he did his back. Most goals he ever kicked in a season and he was taking big pack marks back then, not just lead up and one on one wrestling marks. Sadly we were robbed of hawkins best from that point foward due to that effing back injury.
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That season was utterly incredible. I've not seen a tall forward play like that (i.e. in that specific manner) since Carey.

His two games against Hawthorn that year were incredible. Two games against the best team in the league for 9 contested marks, 13 marks inside 50, 35 touches and nine goals. Insane.
 

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iameviljez said:
Scarlett was still as good a player in 2007 as he was in 2004, regardless of whether he was matched up on the big banana or not.

His imperious period wasn't that short either - it was from the early 2000s, even when the rest of the side wasn't all that good.

Although I only caught the tail-end of Silvagni from 1993-on, I still think Scarlett was better, and certainly vastly better than any tall defender since. He revolutionised how much a defender could contribute toward attack, and pulverised opponents. The game where he kept Scott Welsh to 3 touches and had 30 himself was just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Yep, and the umpires awarded 3 Brownlow votes to ............Nathan Bassett. And we won.

There might be a remote tribe in the Amazon untouched by modern civilisation, who don't know how far ahead Scarlett was that day. They and the umpires are the only ones on Earth who don't.
 
Baudolino said:
This.

And I say that as someone who absolutely loves Stewart. Enright was a footballing god.
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Enright's company is Bruce Doull. The best in his position for some decades.
Stewart has been a champion, Scarlett was imperious.

But Enright stands alone.
 
iameviljez said:
We weren't a gun side in that era IMO. Don't forget, the top names were great, but their peaks didn't match up, and we were so, so hollow in the middle of our age profile at the time... and we had no natural small forwards bar perhaps Fat Motlop.

Hawkins wasn't a great player between 2013 and 2019 inclusive - his back still wasn't great, he was too big, too immobile. By the late 2010s, Selwood and Taylor were no longer at the peak of their respective powers, which was really 2013-ish.

Don't get me wrong, I did not like the defensive, slow, predictable ball movement of the Geelong sides of that era - in fact, I hated it. But I don't think we were anything like a gun side.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Our 2016-2018 sides had as much talent as our 2022 flag. Our defence was just as good. Our midifeld was significantly better. Our foward line wasnt as good, but that was also partly due to the defenisve game plan that killed foward opportunities.

Hindsight and knowing the results has a funny way of changing perspectives. I certainly was more optimisitc at the start of 2016-2018 season then the start of 2022.
 
Seeds said:
I disagree. Our 2016-2018 sides had as much talent as our 2022 flag. Our defence was just as good. Our midifeld was significantly better. Our foward line wasnt as good, but that was also partly due to the defenisve game plan that killed foward opportunities.

Hindsight and knowing the results has a funny way of changing perspectives. I certainly was more optimisitc at the start of 2016-2018 season then the start of 2022.
Click to expand...

2016-2018 we were cooked in defense.
I mean most of our defenders were over 30 and had to try and contend with fleet-footed smalls over those years.
Our midfield was certainly better than anything we've had lately but our forwards today are in a different stratosphere.

Hawkins only ever had Kersten, Henderson or Taylor (Scott's favorite swing-man) for support.
 
Seeds said:
I disagree. Our 2016-2018 sides had as much talent as our 2022 flag. Our defence was just as good. Our midifeld was significantly better. Our foward line wasnt as good, but that was also partly due to the defenisve game plan that killed foward opportunities.
Click to expand...
I disagree, but I might as well put some arguments behind it.

Looking at our 2017 QF side, I know some of the names are the same, but a lot of our players were far worse in 2017 than they were in 2020-22. In 2017, Bews, Zuthrie, Kolodjashnij were nowhere near good enough for a top-four defence, and Stewart wasn't yet a star. Parfitt was also nowhere near it in 2017.

At the bottom end, that team had Murdoch, Scott Selwood, and James Parsons in it - again, guys who would not get anywhere near the 2022 side. The only good small forward we had was Motlop, and he was very hot and cold.

Our top end midfielders were obviously excellent, but footy is very much about chains of possessions and hence the weak links kill you.

Completely agree that the defensive play was awful, but we were nowhere near as good a playing list either. The one argument that I would make for our defensive style was that our defence did need the help - they weren't great 1-v-1.
 

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