A vs B

[Baudolino]

Surely rating Zuthrie over Cuthrie is just recency bias talking? Cuthrie won B&Fs in both a premiership-winning year and a premiership runners-up year, that's about as big an individual honour as you can get outside of a Brownlow or a Norm Smith.

 

[Commando]

Who is a better footballer
V
Who you like better

Two completely seperate ideas

I love Zuthrie but I also realize he isn't the best player in the team

 

[Cursed Cat]

Just thought I would start a thread for player A vs player B who is your favourite or who is the best?

Starting with the brothers
Zac Guthrie vs Cam Guthrie
Cam was the clear winner and a great player when we needed him a dual best and fairest winner and hard to pass, but his brother just has that extra athleticism and flexibility. I think I can finally say I will take Zac!

Tom Atkins vs Max Rooke
Both such similar players, tough as nails the blokes you would take to war 1 and 2 in the draft. Rooke still has the edge but this year Atkins is closing in!

Funny I've weighed these very two comparisons in my own mind, both really tough choices, particularly the Guthries.

Good thread!

 

[Lingsface]

Surely rating Zuthrie over Cuthrie is just recency bias talking? Cuthrie won B&Fs in both a premiership-winning year and a premiership runners-up year, that's about as big an individual honour as you can get outside of a Brownlow or a Norm Smith.

4th and 2nd the last two years in best and fairest at the age of 26. Cam won his best and fairest at 27 and 29. Cam was hit with bad injuries and I’d Zuthrie can keep fit he can very much be in contention to overtake him as a player.

 

[allrighty]

Ablett snr v Ablett Jnr?

No contest

 

[Mr Meow]

4th and 2nd the last two years in best and fairest at the age of 26. Cam won his best and fairest at 27 and 29. Cam was hit with bad injuries and I’d Zuthrie can keep fit he can very much be in contention to overtake him as a player.

Yeah I think for that comparison the only way to do it would be "Do you think Zuthrie is tracking for a career better than Cam?" as obviously Cam's late career highlights would still have him ahead, given he had solid (albeit inconsistent) work earlier on as well.

 

[GlenMiddlemissed]

These are great ideas, I'll tackle the Danger vs Selwood.
Selwood is 100 percent Geelong so for Geelong discussion no one is higher (not even Ablett) for what they did at and for the club. In terms of damaging amazing player though, Danger takes the cake, he can do things only he can and no one else. So in conclusion, I don't have an answer haha!

Agreed.
Selwood is all round, onfield and off, the greatest Geelong player ever, you don't get a new stand named after you as you retire otherwise. As a player, Danger is better, and quite a bit so.

Danger is the best player I have seen and I have been watching since the Newman era. Except for one. Ablett Snr was on another planet (or maybe he came from another planet?)

 

[GlenMiddlemissed]

Both super courageous. I think Hocking was the more skillful but Bartel the better big-game player. I'd take Jimmy if I was picking sides.

Jimmy.

 

[Sttew]

Mark thompson vs malcolm blight (battle for geelongs best coach)

Neither. Chris Scott now our best performed coach in the modern era. Blight was all attack and could not win a premiership. Thompson let himself down by deserting the Cats

 

[Generalissimo]

Neither. Chris Scott now our best performed coach in the modern era. Blight was all attack and could not win a premiership. Thompson let himself down by deserting the Cats

R.J. Hickey or Chris Scott?

 

[Sttew]

R.J. Hickey or Chris Scott?

3 premierships v 2. You’d have to say Hickey but I don’t know enough about him

 

[supahoops]

Oisin Mullin vs Mitch Duncan

 

[Generalissimo]

Oisin Mullin vs Mitch Duncan

Over their career? Duncan. Best 23 in 2025? Mullin.

 

[cats_09]

Oisin Mullin vs Mitch Duncan

Career - Duncan

Right now - Mullin

 

[Hoops]

Lawson Humphries

17

Lawson Humphries

Age

22

Ht

182cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Def

No player stats available

v Brad Sholl

Brad Sholl

Age

53

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

N/A

No player stats available

I know its early days but love Humphries

 

[Commando]

Lawson Humphries v Brad Sholl
I know its early days but love Humphries

Sholl was a very underrated player particularly in some of those leaner years

Humphries is giving me young Wanganeen vibes tho!

 

[Kitcat]

R.J. Hickey or Chris Scott?

Hickey as he won 3, with one as a player-coach. He also won another as just a player.

 

[Hinkley29]

Just thought I would start a thread for player A vs player B who is your favourite or who is the best?

Starting with the brothers
Zac Guthrie vs Cam Guthrie
Cam was the clear winner and a great player when we needed him a dual best and fairest winner and hard to pass, but his brother just has that extra athleticism and flexibility. I think I can finally say I will take Zac!

Tom Atkins vs Max Rooke
Both such similar players, tough as nails the blokes you would take to war 1 and 2 in the draft. Rooke still has the edge but this year Atkins is closing in!

At this stage of their careers - Cam has had a far better career than Zac. That could change in the passage of time, but right now it isn’t close.

Atkins and Max right now is almost a dead heat. By the end of his career Tom will have Max well and truly covered.

 

[Hinkley29]

Cam guthrie and max rooke.

Zac is getting good but peak cam is still better (more x factor). Zac could end up the better player though but not yet.

Rooke was more damaging. Hit blokes harder. Could run down players in open play (atkins does very little of this despite high tackle counts) and rooke in his later year could even compete in the air (was literally our centre half foward in our 2009 premiership win and one of our best players on ground). Injuries cut him short at his peak.

Suggestions for future comparisons:

Damien Bourke vs Darren flanagan (battle for best eighties injury prone ruck)
Paddy dangerfield vs joel selwood (battle for who was our second best mid in the past 50 years)
Ken hinkley vs mick mansfield (battle for the most laconic 90s geelong back flanker)
Paul lynch vs dan menzel (battle for best foward talent ruined by injury...its a tear jerker)
Tom stewart vs matthew scarlett vs corey enright (3 way death battle for geelongs best defender since Malarkey)
Spiro malakellis vs austin mccrabb (battle for well .... just cos who wouldnt want to see this battle?)
Leigh colbert vs gary ayres (battle for the most spectacular jump from a sinking ship)
Mark thompson vs malcolm blight (battle for geelongs best coach)
Malcolm blight vs john devine (battle for geelongs worst coach)
89 ablett vs 93 ablett (battle for greatest ever ablett)
Mark bairstow vs joel corey (battle for the best third best mid in a geelong team)
Neville bruns vs gryan miers (battle for best player round arm sniped by a hawk)
Geelong 1993 vs geelong 2008 (battle for greatest missed opportunity for a flag).

I wouldn’t call Mansfield laconic. He was more intense than Kenny. But Kenny was a much better player.

Thompson and Blight both were flawed geniuses. Both had success and both underachieved. It would have been fascinating to see how Bomba’s coaching career played out if his personal life didn’t spiral out of control. Neither are anywhere near as good as Scott as a coach. Call it a tie between them.

Stewart vs scarlo vs Boris is not close - scarlo wins in a canter. He is our greatest defender ever (malarkey? Don’t make me laugh) and probably the greatest defender in the afl of the modern era. Boris is second, but never had the burden that scarlo had to carry in our team. Stewart is a fair way back in third.

 

[Seeds]

Neither. Chris Scott now our best performed coach in the modern era. Blight was all attack and could not win a premiership. Thompson let himself down by deserting the Cats

Yeah that was more a bit about blight being the greatest coach at times and the worst coach at other times.

As for scott vs thompson its thompson for me. And easily. Thompson has 2 flags from far less games then scott. He also took over a side at it lowest and built it up. Scott inherited arguably the best side in the land and only had to make tweaks to get a flag, which thompson clearly had a massive hand in. You could really say its thompson 2.5 flags vs scott 1.5 and from far less games then scott.

Scott also wasted a gun side between 2016-21 with a deplorable ultra defensive strategy that simply did not hold up in finals. We should have won flags from the team when danger, selwood, hawkins and taylor were at their peaks along with a great support cast around them. Ironically we only won it once they were well past their peaks and taylor was gone. Just because we switched back to a more balanced game plan between defence and attack that everyone could see was required years ago except scott. Thompson stuffed up premiership runs in 2008 and 2010 and 2006 should of been a far better season. But scott stuffed up 2013,2016,2017,2018,2019,2020,2021. 2014 and 2012 should of also turned out far better. Its not even close to be honest. Scott has time to even the ledger. Get a flag this year and it becomes a much closer debate.

 

[dangerwood]

Surely rating Zuthrie over Cuthrie is just recency bias talking? Cuthrie won B&Fs in both a premiership-winning year and a premiership runners-up year, that's about as big an individual honour as you can get outside of a Brownlow or a Norm Smith.

Yeah I'm surprised this is such a debate. I love Zac and he's a far better player than I ever anticipated but Cam was a better player. Possibly a sad finish for Cam but if he's last real season was a second BnF in a premiership year, pretty bloody good.

Zac would need to go to another level again or play for a really long time at this standard for me to re-evaluate.

 

[dangerwood]

I wouldn’t call Mansfield laconic. He was more intense than Kenny. But Kenny was a much better player.

Thompson and Blight both were flawed geniuses. Both had success and both underachieved. It would have been fascinating to see how Bomba’s coaching career played out if his personal life didn’t spiral out of control. Neither are anywhere near as good as Scott as a coach. Call it a tie between them.

Stewart vs scarlo vs Boris is not close - scarlo wins in a canter. He is our greatest defender ever (malarkey? Don’t make me laugh) and probably the greatest defender in the afl of the modern era. Boris is second, but never had the burden that scarlo had to carry in our team. Stewart is a fair way back in third.

I'd go Scarlo then Boris then Stewart but Stewart isn't as far behind Boris in my opinion, and I loved Boris. Some days I think I've even started to think Stewart might be ahead.

 

[Hinkley29]

Yeah that was more a bit about blight being the greatest coach at times and the worst coach at other times.

As for scott vs thompson its thompson for me. And easily. Thompson has 2 flags from far less games then scott. He also took over a side at it lowest and built it up. Scott inherited arguably the best side in the land and only had to make tweaks to get a flag, which thompson clearly had a massive hand in. You could really say its thompson 2.5 flags vs scott 1.5 and from far less games then scott.

Scott also wasted a gun side between 2016-21 with a deplorable ultra defensive strategy that simply did not hold up in finals. We should have won flags from the team when danger, selwood, hawkins and taylor were at their peaks along with a great support cast around them. Ironically we only won it once they were well past their peaks and taylor was gone. Just because we switched back to a more balanced game plan between defence and attack that everyone could see was required years ago except scott. Thompson stuffed up premiership runs in 2008 and 2010 and 2006 should have been a far better season. But scott stuffed up 2013,2016,2017,2018,2019,2020,2021. 2014 and 2012 should have also turned out far better. Its not even close to be honest. Scott has time to even the ledger. Get a flag this year and it becomes a much closer debate.

If Thompson remained as coach in 2011 there is no way that we win that flag. He was unravelling by that point.

 

[Baudolino]

Yeah I'm surprised this is such a debate. I love Zac and he's a far better player than I ever anticipated but Cam was a better player. Possibly a sad finish for Cam but if he's last real season was a second BnF in a premiership year, pretty bloody good.

And to further highlight how impressive he was in outstanding teams, if we'd won that 2020 Grand Final against Richmond, Cuthrie would have added his name to the list of only seven people in the history of the game to have won B&Fs in multiple premiership years. The only people who have done that are Leigh Matthews, Kevin Bartlett, Jason Dunstall, Simon Black, Michael Voss, Gary Ablett Jnr and Corey Enright.

 

[Baudolino]

Scott also wasted a gun side between 2016-21 with a deplorable ultra defensive strategy that simply did not hold up in finals. We should have won flags from the team when danger, selwood, hawkins and taylor were at their peaks along with a great support cast around them. Ironically we only won it once they were well past their peaks and taylor was gone. Just because we switched back to a more balanced game plan between defence and attack that everyone could see was required years ago except scott. Thompson stuffed up premiership runs in 2008 and 2010 and 2006 should of been a far better season. But scott stuffed up 2013,2016,2017,2018,2019,2020,2021. 2014 and 2012 should of also turned out far better. Its not even close to be honest. Scott has time to even the ledger. Get a flag this year and it becomes a much closer debate.

You can't throw all of these into the same group. We didn't have the best team in the comp in every single year from 2006-2022. Some of those years we under-performed, some we performed roughly to expectations, and others we over-performed. I do agree there's a strong argument that we should have snagged at least one premiership between 2012-2021, and I'd be interested to hear your opinions as to which years you think we most fumbled good chances, but to suggest Thompson and Scott under-performed in every one of the years they didn't win premierships is over the top. In some of them, sure, I'm with you. But there's quite a few years in there that you simply can't make a reasonable case for that.

Here's an interesting discussion point: people often talk about the 2016-21 years as wasted opportunities, but is there not a good case to be made that actually the most egregious under-performance of the Scott era was the 2012 season? I find that 2012 is weirdly under-discussed and overlooked in terms of disappointing seasons, mostly because we secured our third premiership in five seasons the year prior to that, so fans were content at the time that the 2007-11 team's legacy was secure and were willing to be a bit lenient in their judgment of 2012. However, relative to the actual quality of that list, our performance that season was a genuinely staggering under-performance. Given that the 2011 team was one of the most dominant in the history of the game by any metric, the fall from grace in 2012 was pretty unacceptable really. For that group, the majority of whom were still at the peak of their powers, to not even make a semi final was ridiculous. We had unbelievable personnel on every line except in the ruck. Admittedly losing Ottens was structurally huge, and West struggled all season to fill that void, but even so, the other departures should have been coverable. Mooney and Milburn were already out of the team by the end of 2011, and while the loss of Ling's defensive capabilities maybe hurt our balance a bit, midfield was by far our deepest position at the time so we have the personnel to cover him.

What are your thoughts on the other Scott years? I can see the argument either way for 2013. IMO Scott had us playing the best footy in the comp that season when we had everyone available and the slingshot attacking from the HBF post-clearance was an ingenious way of mitigating our weaknesses and maximising our strengths, but we weren't clearly better than Hawthorn that year so I don't think it was a massive fumble to not win that flag. Those teams were pretty even. And once we lost Simpson we had a clear structural deficiency that the Hawks didn't. Of course, I can't excuse the performance against Freo in the QF, the decision to make Chappy the sub, etc. On balance I'd put the year down as an under-performance but at the same time I think it has to be conceded that the ruck deficiency was out of Scott's control once Simpson went down.