Strategy Aaron Naughton - Key Defender or Key Forward?

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Cadillac

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He’s a star. Played probably one of his worst games of the year against one of the games best defenders and he still had the chance to kick 5.
 

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I'm willing to bet that a 19 yo has never done that before and never will again.
Well that's my sort of bet. You're on!

Fine print:
You can be proved wrong if some 19yo does it again some time in the future but I can never be proved wrong - at least not until the end of time.
 

RedWhite&Blue

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He’s a star. Played probably one of his worst games of the year against one of the games best defenders and he still had the chance to kick 5.
This!
He is never beaten, always grinding away, waiting for an opportunity to pluck a mark.
And as we know he doesn't need much of an opportunity to take it.
He is a star.
 

Dogsbestfriend

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And how brilliant is Bevo to recognise that a young draftee that has always been a quality defender could actually impact this much as a forward.
 

giblj

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I'm willing to bet that a 19 yo has never done that before and never will again.
The only other teenagers to have 50+ contested marks in a season were Lance Whitnall and Nick Riewoldt and neither of those lead the league in those seasons so I'm pretty sure you're right there.

[Edit] I believe the current youngest player to lead the league in contested marks is Tom Lynch (Gold Coast/Richmond version) who did it at 22 in 2015.
 
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Optimistic Dog

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Coming along nicely but his goal kicking is a real worry. Hope he can improve it


Nearly always misses to the left. So should be able to work on it looks like a ball drop problem to me. I know when I had the problem many years ago I used to practice kicking with tennis ball the idea being to make flush contact with a smaller object to improve concentration. It worked for me. A bit like "The Don" hitting a ball against a wall with one stump.
 

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bigboysdontcry

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Don’t jump the gun too early! Since coming back from concussion he has played in 2 horrible conditions for a marking key forward. Let’s see how he goes at Marval this weekend.
 
Oct 19, 2012
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Ask yourselves the question. What part of the ground are the best ball users at the club?

Now put Naught at the opposite end.

It's not the total answer but its a large factor as to why Aaron plays in the position he does. He could be some sort of intercepting god at CHB but with his ball use I can't ever see him playing that position whilst Bev remains coach.

Btw windy conditions probably effect him the most out of anyone in the team. Let's see what happens under the roof at marvel. Or simply cast your minds back to what happened to our forward line without him against Sydney.
 
Oct 19, 2012
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Alex Rance was once perceived as one of the worst kicks of the ball in the AFL. He went onto become a generational key-defender and probably the greatest attacking-minded key defender ever.

Were Fletcher Roberts, Joel Hamling and Dale Morris ever renown for their ball use? I wouldn't have thought so, but clearly they were good enough for Beveridge in 2016, and good enough to win a flag. Roberts kept superkicker Matt Suckling out of the side for a Grand Final too.
How about that Ryan Gardener? One of Beveridge's personal favourites, but also responsible for some of the worst kicks out of defence you will ever see. Doesn't stop the coach from picking him.

You don't have to be a high quality ball user to be an elite key-defender, or even an attacking minded one. Players just need to understand their limitations. What Naughton lacks in kicking technique he more than makes up for in power and athleticism. He would be much better suited to intercepting and creating drive out of defence similar to how Rance or Lake did, rather than playing forward all game and not knowing what to do half the time, because he doesn't have forward instincts.

Naughton up forward is important for structural reasons right now, but he shouldn't be bogged down there if/when Ugle-Hagan and/or Darcy are good enough to be the #1 target.

Firstly Rance wasn't technically a bad kicker in terms of technique. Naughton's issues are far greater in terms of how fluid he is as a kick and his ball drop. Do agree though Rance was prone to some howlers but got considerably better. Roberts also didn't keep Suckling out of the side, suckling got injured against Hawthorn thus unavailable for the prelim and GF.

The names you mention weren't elite kickers but they are all safe kickers. Naughton on the other hand operates at such a ballistic pace that I don't believe he will ever be a safe user of the ball. He's not going to be like a Darcy Moore/Lever who not only intercept at an elite level but also a pretty high quality ball users.

Arguing that Naughton lacks forward nous to me is a short sighted argument. Before his concussion he was leading contested marks and marks inside 50, he can get to the right spots. Also he's pretty unselfish when he picks the ball up at ground level and will dish off instead of having a ping himself.

3 weeks ago after the swans game this board was in unison that Naughton should never be removed from the forward line. JUH (Albeit in his first game) and Bruce were completely destroyed by McCartin and Rampe. The first game we bring Naughton back, JUH has a really good game as the third option and a lot of the defensive heat was relieved. By the time JUH is ready to be the 2nd target (and yes great teams have 2 quality key forwards (Richmond 2019-2020, WCE 2018, Hawthorn 2013-2015), Bruce will be 31 years old.

We have invested 3 full seasons in Naughton up forward. He ain't going back now. Not when Beveridge has a knack of switching players back with a good amount of success. Or getting in good cheap draft picks /trades like Hamling, Adams, Keath etc.
 
Oct 19, 2012
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Where have I heard that before?... that's right, Jackson Macrae in his earlier years, a guy now widely perceived as one of the best ball users in the AFL and top 2 for goal assists.


You gotta be kidding here. You really think its that difficult for a professional player to tidy up their ball use a bit?

People were saying the exact same things about Alex Rance and Brian Lake, back when he was Brian Harris.


That's part of my point, his game is almost entirely based around marking the ball. He isn't nearly as dangerous when the ball hits the ground, which is actually an important trait for modern key forwards.

Yes, he "dishes off" some chances, but even those are frequently incorrect decisions or not executed well enough. Forward instincts aren't all about scoring goals, its also setting them up, and more importantly, knowing when to.


So?

You might notice I've actually been saying Naughton is vital to our structure right now, and should only be moved back when Darcy or Ugle-Hagan are ready to be #1 targets.


Who said anything about switching him back now?

Yes, Beveridge has had success switching player positions. I'd like to think he'll move Naughton back too when the time is right.

Look, I've made a lot of posts regarding this subject. So i'm not going to rehash everything I have said. I agree to disagree about him getting potentially a lot better in terms of kicking. As you say a lot of his kicks are from marks so it's not as if he is under direct pressure (in relation to your comparison to Macrae getting much better).

But I just simply don't agree about this "forward instincts' aspect of your argument. Sure he's not a genius iq level forward. But he's easily our most involved forward in terms of score involvements both totals and averages. He is setting them up at a rate better than any of our forwards. Bringing the ball to ground, drawing multiple defenders, dishing off to smalls in better goal scoring positions, defensive pressure.

He is the key domino of our forward line. I just can't see that moving anytime soon.

 
Feb 11, 2008
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I think you’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Naughtys ever going back again 😂(except for an emergency with no other options etc)

Surely we’re not still having this discussion
How anyone can watch him play every week and think he's anything but a forward is a mystery to me.

I also don't see where the confidence that he'll be this generational defender comes from either. He's played one encouraging year as a key defender at AFL level where he had suspect ball use and barely played on a man.
 
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Oct 19, 2012
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Once again, I am strongly against moving him out of the forward line at this moment in time. I agree he's our most involved forward, our #1 target and vitally important to our forward structure. He didn't finish the game against Geelong at Kardinia, and our forward line was completely useless, even as we were dominating possession in the 4th quarter. He wasn't playing forward in his debut 2018 year, and sure enough, our forward line was a complete joke all year, with Billy Gowers topping the club tally. Naughton going forward in 2019 was probably the biggest factor in our improvement that year. I'll say it again: I strongly believe Naughton should play up forward right now, and the near future.

I still think the long term plan should be defence, the same way it was for Michael Hurley, and going back further, Chris Tarrant.


I wasn't sure at first, but after you said the same thing again, I think I get it :)

Hahah oops. Fair enough. I’m more than happy to hear different viewpoints. BF would be boring if we were all robots with the same opinions.

hell our supporters can’t even agree with the head coach regarding team selections and we are top!
 
Sep 22, 2008
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How anyone can watch him play every week and think he's anything but a forward us a mystery to me.

I also don't see where the confidence that he'll be this generational defender comes from either. He's played one encouraging year as a key defender at AFL level where he had suspect ball use and barely played on a man.
I have no doubt he could be a gun CHB, I think he’s just an extremely good footballer with an insane attack on the ball and some of the best hands I’ve ever seen. When you’ve got a guy like that you play him where the ball is and with our supply you want him forward no doubt. Whilst key defenders definitely are more important than ever, I still think if you’ve got the choice you play a gun forward. As we’ve seen time and time again even as recently as Schache poor forwards can sometimes make good defenders, you just don’t get the other way around and as we know finding quality forwards is hard, there’s gun defenders all over the draft

What I would like to see is us utilising him in the ruck inside 50, you just have to look at the effect Hawkins and Walker for example are having in there. He’s so strong and athletic I think he could be brilliant in that inside 50 ruck role, leaving less work for Tim to do who can than set up in the defensive wall at the 50
 
Feb 11, 2008
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Might have something to do with scoring only one goal from open play, having less than half the assists of guys like Hawkins, Riewoldt, Lynch. Just general forward instinct things.

Bailey Dale finished the final third of 2019 averaging 3 goals a game as a forward, I doubt anyone would've been tipping him to be a half-back two years later.


Who said he would be a generational key defender? Did you even read my post?

The only time I used the words "generational defender" was in relation to Rance, who started his career as a terrible kick.
This year seems an anomaly really. He had some pretty good goals from general play the last two years including some freakish soccers.

Hmm I wonder what else those three have in common? It couldn't be playing in a settled position at AFL level for a decade. Two of them even play in the same system. I wonder is football IQ something that gets better or worse with age and experience?

As to your last point. I wasn't talking about your post specifically hence why I didn't quote it. Was more of a general sentiment thing really. Although in saying that you'd want to hope he's a pretty ******* good defender if you're going to want to move him now. I've seen little evidence at AFL level that will be the case and a whole hell of a lot that he will continue to be a gun forward.
 
Feb 11, 2008
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It's an anomaly that he rarely looks dangerous when the ball hits the ground?


So we're supposed to wait a decade before Naughton starts playing like a natural forward?
Ben and Max King are younger than Naughton and they score plenty of goals from open play. Max has nearly double the goal assists of Naughton too. Neither of them get the Bulldogs midfield silver service either. It's almost like natural forward instincts actually do matter.


1. I don't want to move him now.
2. Seen little evidence? That might have something to do with the fact that he only played defence in his debut season. Considering he spent his entire youth career as a defender, all the development coaches and gurus touted him as a defender, and the fact he's already demonstrated elite traits expected from a defender, I think it's quite reasonable to suggest he could quite easily be a gun key defender.

Also I raise the Bailey Dale example again. Never mind "little evidence" - there was zero evidence to suggest he could play halfback flank at AFL level. Today he's the best halfback flank in the AFL.
No it's an anomaly he hasn't scored much from general play.

Obviously not. But maybe give him a break since he's 4 years into his career and only 21 having several long injuries along the way and looks amazing forward.

Awesome. Same point. You'd want to be sure he was going to be amazing before moving him from a position he's already arguably top 5 and definitely top 10.

That's great and Naughton won't be the first or last player to change positions once they hit the big time.

Stop comparing flankers to key position players. Completely different beasts. Also Dale was on his last chance in a new position he was hardly the key component of the forwardline of the top team.
You're not taking an ordinary player and finding a new position because of some skills that might work. You're taking a borderline AA player and changing his position just because he might be better.
 

Nath09

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Legit not across the stats but I wonder how many goals from general play someone like Tony Lockett scored most years…guess he wasn’t much of a “natural forward” either.
 

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