Aboriginal Statistics?

Remove this Banner Ad

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Changes to this year's AFL Record Season Guide list

added: Terry Burgess, Gary Malarkey
removed: Don Keyter
missing: Sydney Stack, Marlion Pickett
I thought they'd end up leaving those last two off! I'm not sure how Pickett could be forgotten!

Burgess and Malarkey (2018) were in the 2019 book. See post above yours (Burgess)! Keyter hasn't been in the book for a while - not since 2017.

I can see three names they've not included here: LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME
Trent Burgoyne (Port Adelaide), Jy Farrar and Malcolm Rosas (Gold Coast). Burgoyne should have been hard to miss as well! Only a few pages away he's listed in the family links section as being the son of Peter Burgoyne.

I make it 87 indigenous players on 2020 lists.
+ 1 for Harley Bennell (Melbourne)!
 
Last edited:

Ron The Bear

Up yer arse, AFL
30k Posts 10k Posts
Jul 4, 2006
35,845
36,723
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
I thought they'd end up leaving those last two off! I'm not sure how Pickett could be forgotten!

Burgess and Malarkey (2018) were in the 2019 book. See post above yours (Burgess)! Keyter hasn't been in the book for a while - not since 2017.

I can see three names they've not included here: LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME
Trent Burgoyne (Port Adelaide), Jy Farrar and Malcolm Rosas (Gold Coast). Burgoyne should have been hard to miss as well! Only a few pages away he's listed in the family links section as being the son of Peter Burgoyne.

I make it 87 indigenous players on 2020 lists.
+ 1 for Harley Bennell (Melbourne)!

You're way ahead of me.

Stack and Pickett were recruited after the 2019 edition was printed. They must've referenced against an outdated list of players when compiling this year's list.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
You're way ahead of me.

Stack and Pickett were recruited after the 2019 edition was printed. They must've referenced against an outdated list of players when compiling this year's list.
Yeah, that's a likely explanation. Yet late-comers to last season like Collingwood's John Noble and Fremantle's Dillon O'Reilly have made it into the family links section, so they haven't been forgotten.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
There have been several posts in this Footy History thread recently regarding George Simmonds, the 1924 Melbourne player. It has been established that he was not indigenous, and his name can be removed from the list of all-time AFL/VFL indigenous players.

I sent an email regarding the Simmonds' story to the AFL chaps on Friday night, and have now heard from Col Hutchinson. This is the key bit from his response:
Thanks for clarifying the Simmonds situation.

I will adjust the AFL records accordingly.
 
Aug 14, 2011
44,794
16,853
Trafalgar
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Mclaren Mercedes F1

Forty-six former Clontarf students have been drafted into the AFL since 2000 including the likes of (current) Liam Ryan, Willie Rioli, Paddy Ryder, Neville Jetta, Jack Martin.
Not sure if Sam Petrevski -Seton or Joel Hambling came through Clontarf.

Sam Powell & Quintin Narkle arent Clontarf graduates.

More than six Fred.
 
Last edited:

freddy mercury

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2009
14,393
16,739
AFL Club
Tasmania
Other Teams
Jacksonville
Forty-six former Clontarf students have been drafted into the AFL since 20 including the likes of (current) Liam Ryan, Willie Rioli, Paddy Ryder, Neville Jetta, Jack Martin.
Not sure if Sam Petrevski -Seton or Joel Hambling came through Clontarf.

Sam Powell & Quintin Narkle arent Clontarf graduates.

More than six Fred.
I see.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
What's the current number of indigenous in the afl ?
Currently I have the figure at 83, but that is definitely only an approximate number. As well as 71 (of the 88) indigenous players who were on 2020 lists another 12 that I know of have come on to the lists for 2021. There's every possibility that there are at least one or two more names that I'm not aware of, but when the AFL Record Season Guide comes out shortly (it's due on the 18th) any "unknown" names should be revealed. There's also some chance that the likes of Cedric Cox and Derek Eggmolesse-Smith will get picked up again, while Kobe Farmer and Rhyan Mansell are also training with clubs and could be snapped up as well.
 
Last edited:

Ron The Bear

Up yer arse, AFL
30k Posts 10k Posts
Jul 4, 2006
35,845
36,723
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Additions to the list

Lindsay Gilbee (WB)
Aiden Bonar (GWS,NM)

Removed

Brad Lynch (WB)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Additions to the list

Lindsay Gilbee (WB)
Aiden Bonar (GWS,NM)

Removed

Brad Lynch (WB)
They do tend to get a few things wrong in that section of the book, sadly! I'm glad they've taken Brad Lynch's name off the list, as it was pretty clear it didn't belong. George Simmonds' name is still there, though it shouldn't be, after the AFL's Col Hutchinson agreed with me a few months ago that it needed to be removed. Unfortunately it seems he didn't pass that onto the book's editor, I didn't either, so it's still there!

Last year I did point out that these three names needed to be included in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section: Trent Burgoyne (Port Adelaide), Jy Farrar and Malcolm Rosas (Gold Coast). Farrar has since debuted, with the other two yet to play, but none have made it into the book! All three of them can be found here, and there's no doubt about their belonging: Indigenous-Player-Map-Update-2020_v3.pdf (aflplayers.com.au)
1615339310316.png

1615339365030.png

1615339447774.png


This year they've included Fremantle's Brandon Walker in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section, but that almost certainly is a mistake: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
1615339657920.png

1615339681434.png

1615339861342.png

Joel Western of Fremantle is named in the yet-to-debut section as well. This says his name belongs there: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
1615346620478.png

1615346645445.png

Yet he played for the World Team (along with Walker) a few years back and not the Flying Boomerangs, so that seems very odd to me!: 2017 Rio Tinto Flying Boomerangs and World Team squads announced | WA Football News
1615346807735.png

1615346857270.png


They haven't named Hawthorn's Tyler Brockman in that section but should have: Hawthorn draftee and WA product Tyler Brockman pushes for debut with three early goals and coach’s praise | The West Australian
1615341934502.png

Tyler Brockman | AFL (hawthornfc.com.au)
1615342058856.png

He was also in the Flying Boomerangs squad in 2017.

It's certainly interesting to see Aiden Bonar's name appear on the list, but I'm hoping that isn't another mistake!:
The Fight in Aiden Bonar (gwsgiants.com.au)
1615340737757.png

1615340870296.png

Tomorrow's Heroes: Elite talent with massive upside (afl.com.au)
1615340960984.png

Perhaps this holds the answer (if his mother really was born in Australia, though it does seem to be that the father was born in Scotland, so maybe it's not to be relied upon!)?: Aiden Bonar - Wikipedia
1615341390633.png

I've no idea what to believe!
==================
I make it 87 indigenous players on AFL lists in 2021 (that includes Bonar and Western). 73 of them were there in 2020 (including the re-listed Eggmolesse-Smith), and there should be 14 players new to the AFL this year (that includes SSP recruits Rhyan Mansell at Richmond and Deakyn Smith of Melbourne).
 
Last edited:
They do tend to get a few things wrong in that section of the book, sadly! I'm glad they've taken Brad Lynch's name off the list, as it was pretty clear it didn't belong. George Simmonds' name is still there, though it shouldn't be, after the AFL's Col Hutchinson agreed with me a few months ago that it needed to be removed. Unfortunately it seems he didn't pass that onto the book's editor, I didn't either, so it's still there!

Last year I did point out that these three names needed to be included in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section: Trent Burgoyne (Port Adelaide), Jy Farrar and Malcolm Rosas (Gold Coast). Farrar has since debuted, with the other two yet to play, but none have made it into the book! All three of them can be found here, and there's no doubt about their belonging: Indigenous-Player-Map-Update-2020_v3.pdf (aflplayers.com.au)
View attachment 1074163
View attachment 1074164
View attachment 1074165

This year they've included Fremantle's Brandon Walker in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section, but that almost certainly is a mistake: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
View attachment 1074168
View attachment 1074170
View attachment 1074174
Joel Western of Fremantle is named in the yet-to-debut section as well. This says his name belongs there: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
View attachment 1074264
View attachment 1074265
Yet he played for the World Team (along with Walker) a few years back and not the Flying Boomerangs, so that seems very odd to me!: 2017 Rio Tinto Flying Boomerangs and World Team squads announced | WA Football News
View attachment 1074272
View attachment 1074273

They haven't named Hawthorn's Tyler Brockman in that section but should have: Hawthorn draftee and WA product Tyler Brockman pushes for debut with three early goals and coach’s praise | The West Australian
View attachment 1074204
Tyler Brockman | AFL (hawthornfc.com.au)
View attachment 1074205
He was also in the Flying Boomerangs squad in 2017.

It's certainly interesting to see Aiden Bonar's name appear on the list, but I'm hoping that isn't another mistake!:
The Fight in Aiden Bonar (gwsgiants.com.au)
View attachment 1074188
View attachment 1074193
Tomorrow's Heroes: Elite talent with massive upside (afl.com.au)
View attachment 1074194
Perhaps this holds the answer (if his mother really was born in Australia, though it does seem to be that the father was born in Scotland, so maybe it's not to be relied upon!)?: Aiden Bonar - Wikipedia
View attachment 1074198
I've no idea what to believe!
==================
I make it 87 indigenous players on AFL lists in 2021 (that includes Bonar and Western). 73 of them were there in 2020 (including the re-listed Eggmolesse-Smith), and there should be 14 players new to the AFL this year (that includes SSP recruits Rhyan Mansell at Richmond and Deakyn Smith of Melbourne).
Re: Brad Lynch, how would someone get erroneously added to such a list?
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Re: Brad Lynch, how would someone get erroneously added to such a list?
Unfortunately, mistakes get made with this quite often, and a player is included on the list of indigenous players when they shouldn't be there. In the case of Lynch it took quite a while before they corrected that mistake. I read a story years ago that he had hung around with a bunch of aboriginal friends when he was a kid, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone read that story and simply got the wrong idea from it! I'm pretty certain Toby Nankervis was mistakenly named on that Season Guide list when he first came into the AFL, but his name would have been removed by the following year's edition. I remember seeing a photo of a player called Lincoln McCarthy soon after Geelong drafted the player with that name. It was a photo of a chap who was quite clearly an aboriginal person, but it was not the right chap! McCarthy's name still made it onto that Season Guide list, all because of that initial mistake with the photo, it seems. That error would have been fixed in the next year's book, as well. Then we also have cases like Norm Le Brun, Don Keyter and George Simmonds who have been in the game's records as indigenous VFL/AFL players for many decades, and then a relative or researcher has come forward and pointed out the error.
 
Unfortunately, mistakes get made with this quite often, and a player is included on the list of indigenous players when they shouldn't be there. In the case of Lynch it took quite a while before they corrected that mistake. I read a story years ago that he had hung around with a bunch of aboriginal friends when he was a kid, and I wouldn't be surprised if someone read that story and simply got the wrong idea from it! I'm pretty certain Toby Nankervis was mistakenly named on that Season Guide list when he first came into the AFL, but his name would have been removed by the following year's edition. I remember seeing a photo of a player called Lincoln McCarthy soon after Geelong drafted the player with that name. It was a photo of a chap who was quite clearly an aboriginal person, but it was not the right chap! McCarthy's name still made it onto that Season Guide list, all because of that initial mistake with the photo, it seems. That error would have been fixed in the next year's book, as well. Then we also have cases like Norm Le Brun, Don Keyter and George Simmonds who have been in the game's records as indigenous VFL/AFL players for many decades, and then a relative or researcher has come forward and pointed out the error.
Crazy that someone would get added onto a list like that based on such loose info.... wouldn't they want to confirm with the actual person? Or at least through the club? It's so mind-blowing to me that Lynch was known as being an indigenous Dogs player for so long by supporters and he never was... I can understand mistakes for the older cases from past decades, with dated/limited information available but for such a recent example, crazy.
You seem to have quite an interest in this area. Are you indigenous yourself, if you don't mind me asking? Or just have a penchant for accurate record keeping?
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Crazy that someone would get added onto a list like that based on such loose info.... wouldn't they want to confirm with the actual person? Or at least through the club? It's so mind-blowing to me that Lynch was known as being an indigenous Dogs player for so long by supporters and he never was... I can understand mistakes for the older cases from past decades, with dated/limited information available but for such a recent example, crazy.
You seem to have quite an interest in this area. Are you indigenous yourself, if you don't mind me asking? Or just have a penchant for accurate record keeping?
Just a plain old white fella, one who does indeed have "a penchant for accurate record keeping"! I don't know why they took so long taking Lynch's name off that list, and of course it shouldn't have been there in the first place. Mistakes like that are made too often, and they really shouldn't be going just on guesswork/appearance, they should be checking quite thoroughly.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
They do tend to get a few things wrong in that section of the book, sadly! I'm glad they've taken Brad Lynch's name off the list, as it was pretty clear it didn't belong. George Simmonds' name is still there, though it shouldn't be, after the AFL's Col Hutchinson agreed with me a few months ago that it needed to be removed. Unfortunately it seems he didn't pass that onto the book's editor, I didn't either, so it's still there!

Last year I did point out that these three names needed to be included in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section: Trent Burgoyne (Port Adelaide), Jy Farrar and Malcolm Rosas (Gold Coast). Farrar has since debuted, with the other two yet to play, but none have made it into the book! All three of them can be found here, and there's no doubt about their belonging: Indigenous-Player-Map-Update-2020_v3.pdf (aflplayers.com.au)
View attachment 1074163
View attachment 1074164
View attachment 1074165

This year they've included Fremantle's Brandon Walker in the LISTED INDIGENOUS PLAYERS YET TO PLAY A GAME section, but that almost certainly is a mistake: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
View attachment 1074168
View attachment 1074170
View attachment 1074174
Joel Western of Fremantle is named in the yet-to-debut section as well. This says his name belongs there: NAB AFL Draft - AFL.com.au
View attachment 1074264
View attachment 1074265
Yet he played for the World Team (along with Walker) a few years back and not the Flying Boomerangs, so that seems very odd to me!: 2017 Rio Tinto Flying Boomerangs and World Team squads announced | WA Football News
View attachment 1074272
View attachment 1074273

They haven't named Hawthorn's Tyler Brockman in that section but should have: Hawthorn draftee and WA product Tyler Brockman pushes for debut with three early goals and coach’s praise | The West Australian
View attachment 1074204
Tyler Brockman | AFL (hawthornfc.com.au)
View attachment 1074205
He was also in the Flying Boomerangs squad in 2017.

It's certainly interesting to see Aiden Bonar's name appear on the list, but I'm hoping that isn't another mistake!:
The Fight in Aiden Bonar (gwsgiants.com.au)
View attachment 1074188
View attachment 1074193
Tomorrow's Heroes: Elite talent with massive upside (afl.com.au)
View attachment 1074194
Perhaps this holds the answer (if his mother really was born in Australia, though it does seem to be that the father was born in Scotland, so maybe it's not to be relied upon!)?: Aiden Bonar - Wikipedia
View attachment 1074198
I've no idea what to believe!
==================
I make it 87 indigenous players on AFL lists in 2021 (that includes Bonar and Western). 73 of them were there in 2020 (including the re-listed Eggmolesse-Smith), and there should be 14 players new to the AFL this year (that includes SSP recruits Rhyan Mansell at Richmond and Deakyn Smith of Melbourne).
Here's a follow-up to this post, as I've now heard back from the Football Record's Michael Lovett (who had heard from the AFL's Mark Genge):
1621511869851.png

The George Simmonds one had already been sorted out/approved, but the change did need to be made in the book. There was never any doubt about Farrar, Brockman, Burgoyne and Rosas; plus Walker as well but Western was quite a dubious one, so I'm glad that's been cleared up.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Additions to the list

Lindsay Gilbee (WB)
Aiden Bonar (GWS,NM)

Removed

Brad Lynch (WB)
I think this pretty much confirms a mistake was made by the 2021 AFL Season Guide when they included Aiden Bonar's name on that list!: Every club's stunning Indigenous jumper for Sir Doug Nicholls Round: Which is best? Vote now (afl.com.au)
1622203144868.png

I did point out (up the page a bit) that I felt there had to be a lot of doubt around his being named, but I didn't mention his name to the Season Guide's editor (when pointing out omissions/dubious names), as I thought there was a chance it might have been a recent revelation (as has apparently happened with Lindsay Gilbee).
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Mar 6, 2011
8,953
11,846
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
Just referring to the above post, Aiden Bonar's name is not on the list of Indigenous players in this year's Season Guide, so they've obviously seen that was an error and corrected it. Jeremy Sharp's name (GC) has been removed as well, after being there for the last two years.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back