Aborigines...

bunsen burner · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by Milkman
Um, yes. That's pretty much what I said.

but it can be iterpreted two ways:

1) The denied chasing him because they has something to hide
2) They denied chasing him because they weren't chasing him.

BloodyPrincess · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by jacqui9
Nothing was stolen from them at all. I love Australia and I love living here. Nothing hurts me more than people coming out and saying that we stole the land from them. What makes it their and?? It is everyone's to share and cherish.

Well, I am not sure how we took possession, but I don't reckon that Capt Cook and his cohorts had a cheque book out looking for weekend auctions when they landed..

I am not defending the actions of the people in Redfern. But I can't accept the moronic and racist attitudes that are being brought to bare.

My next thought is how John Howard will use this issue to win the next election.

bunsen burner · Feb 16, 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aborigines...

Originally posted by anniswan

Yeah we may have built the cities, but it was land that was stolen from them.

We didn't steal it from them, we just claimed ownership. I don't believe aborigines had a concept of land ownership and territorial boundaries.

If Capt Cook did roll up with a cheque book, who would have he bought it off? "Hey mate, I know you've never seen a white bloke before, especially one wearing a puncy outfit like mine, but I'd like to buy this island for the princely sum of three pence." "What are you on about?". You can also almost guaruntee we would have bought it in exchange for very little.

Apart from that, the way of the world back then was to fight over land. Fortunately, them's the breaks.

Danni · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by anniswan

My next thought is how John Howard will use this issue to win the next election.

Aww come on anni.....you know how this one goes......

It didn't happen in Redfern....it happened on a boat.....and they weren't rioting..........they were holding orphans out over a bay of sharks and threatening to drop them..........

bunsen burner · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by anniswan

My next thought is how John Howard will use this issue to win the next election.

Doctored video footage of aboriginal elders throwing their kids onto fence palings of course.

BloodyPrincess · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by Danni
Aww come on anni.....you know how this one goes......

It didn't happen in Redfern....it happened on a boat.....and they weren't rioting..........they were holding orphans out over a bay of sharks and threatening to drop them..........

Yeah but at the end of the day he will say that it may not have happened but he was told it happened. Therefore "I am not apologising for having stated things I believed to be true"**

**Taken from Herald Sun 18 Feb 2002

Squeak · Feb 16, 2004

I didn't read past the first post, but is this thread full of stereotyping and tarring a whole race with the one brush, and criticising Australia's natives for things that would not have happened without European occupation of this continent?

Danny_Green · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by jacqui9
Danny Green has soe merit in what he is saying. I have seen first hand, a majority of Aborignals (mainly half casts) get their TAFE courses for free. Most of them fail to turn up and then we cop the verbal and in some cases physical abuse when their centrelink payments are cut off.

I think the main problem IMO are the half casts who claim Aboriginality on the basis of being 1/8th Aboriginal. The Yothu types are the genuine ones who live simple lives and prefer to live lives of solitude and isolation.

Actually.... its funny that you agree with what I am saying... you sound like when you said "cop the verbal and in some cases physical abuse when their centrelink payments are cut off" that you have worked at Centrelink????.... interesting if you did because I also worked at Centrelink too. Perhaps that explains our opinions on the aboriginal race.

Its interesting because it appears we have seen a side of life in Australia that most of the apparant do-gooders in here have not. During my time working at Centrelink I got to meet some of the nicest people you could find.... I also got to meet the scum of the earth on a daily basis. Yes there is verbal and physical abuse... I have had phonebooks thrown at me from over the counter... I was spat on my an aboriginal and called a "white ****" because I refused to give someone their 5th advance payment to go to another distant cousins funeral in Meekathara. We've had cars driven through doors.. sledgehammers taken to the counters.... you name it..... but I can honestly say in my time there I had never been abused as much as I had by aboriginals who thought it was their god given right to abuse, spit and threaten you. If you refused them an advance payment they'd call you a racist... and yes its the half casts that are the worst.

Also one of my best friends whilst working there was an aboriginal guy...... he was "decent"... had a job... (should I say given a job because he was aboriginal... but that in itself is a 2 page explanation) but at least he was doing something with his life.... not on that bad money.... say 35K a year....I would give him lifts home and would immediately see every cousins brother, sister and hanger on go to him.... expecting him to buy the beer and wine.... he would pay for the house expenses because his parents blew their dole on alcohol...... half way through each pay day he would have to be asking me to borrow money from him. I haven't seen him for 6 years now but it wouldn't surprise to see he is in the gutter.

Now all you do-gooders can call me a racist all you like.... and its easy for you to say Aboriginal people have been victimised but perhaps if you got out of your little cocoons and got out on the streets and saw what its really like then maybe you can make a valid assessment of the problems in the aboriginal community and the impacts it has on others lives. I am guessing like myself... there are approximately 50 policemen and women who now have if not a hatred of the aboriginal community....a waryness of them.

Milkman · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by bunsen burner
1) The denied chasing him because they has something to hide
2) They denied chasing him because they weren't chasing him.

Yes, but throw in a few more factors, like an eye witness account which contradicts that of the officers. The fact the police aren't exactly known for their placidity, especially when dealing with aborigines. Also the unlikelihood of such an accident, the way the police claimed it happened. It all smells a bit like BS to me. I hope i'm wrong.

bunsen burner · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by Squeak
I didn't read past the first post, but is this thread full of stereotyping and tarring a whole race with the one brush, and criticising Australia's natives for things that would not have happened without European occupation of this continent?

Imagine if no europeans, asians, or americans never came here. It wouldn't be much different to it was 200+ years ago. The rest of the world would be flying around in airplanes, communicating globally over the Internet, and then there would be this massive land mass/continent with a couple of hundred thousand people on it.

Romantic but completely ridiculous.

Just because we introduced them to alcohol doesn't mean it's our fault that they have widespread alcohol problems.

bunsen burner · Feb 16, 2004

Originally posted by Milkman
Yes, but throw in a few more factors, like an eye witness account which contradicts that of the officers. The fact the police aren't exactly known for their placidity, especially when dealing with aborigines. Also the unlikelihood of such an accident, the way the police claimed it happened. It all smells a bit like BS to me. I hope i'm wrong.

So how are you suggesting he got impaled on the fence?

btw you conveniently ignored my questions about your stance on whether or not it is the police's fault if they were in fact chasing him. I have asked you twice.

bunsen burner · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by Danny_Green
Actually.... its funny that you agree with what I am saying... you sound like when you said "cop the verbal and in some cases physical abuse when their centrelink payments are cut off" that you have worked at Centrelink????.... interesting if you did because I also worked at Centrelink too. Perhaps that explains our opinions on the aboriginal race.

Its interesting because it appears we have seen a side of life in Australia that most of the apparant do-gooders in here have not. During my time working at Centrelink I got to meet some of the nicest people you could find.... I also got to meet the scum of the earth on a daily basis. Yes there is verbal and physical abuse... I have had phonebooks thrown at me from over the counter... I was spat on my an aboriginal and called a "white ****" because I refused to give someone their 5th advance payment to go to another distant cousins funeral in Meekathara. We've had cars driven through doors.. sledgehammers taken to the counters.... you name it..... but I can honestly say in my time there I had never been abused as much as I had by aboriginals who thought it was their god given right to abuse, spit and threaten you. If you refused them an advance payment they'd call you a racist... and yes its the half casts that are the worst.

Also one of my best friends whilst working there was an aboriginal guy...... he was "decent"... had a job... (should I say given a job because he was aboriginal... but that in itself is a 2 page explanation) but at least he was doing something with his life.... not on that bad money.... say 35K a year....I would give him lifts home and would immediately see every cousins brother, sister and hanger on go to him.... expecting him to buy the beer and wine.... he would pay for the house expenses because his parents blew their dole on alcohol...... half way through each pay day he would have to be asking me to borrow money from him. I haven't seen him for 6 years now but it wouldn't surprise to see he is in the gutter.

Now all you do-gooders can call me a racist all you like.... and its easy for you to say Aboriginal people have been victimised but perhaps if you got out of your little cocoons and got out on the streets and saw what its really like then maybe you can make a valid assessment of the problems in the aboriginal community and the impacts it has on others lives. I am guessing like myself... there are approximately 50 policemen and women who now have if not a hatred of the aboriginal community....a waryness of them.

That's all well and good but saying they should have been killed off like in Tasmania is absurd. You are obviously aware that they have some problems but aren't willing to understand why.

harry_hawka · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by Squeak
I didn't read past the first post, but is this thread full of stereotyping and tarring a whole race with the one brush, and criticising Australia's natives for things that would not have happened without European occupation of this continent?

Not on the whole, but a few posts are like that. All in all it's actually a good thread to view, some good arguments, and hasn't been hijacked yet. Which is surprising given which board this is on. Probably worth reading a bit more, Squeak, you'll see the posts from usual morons, but good posts from others.

Danny_Green · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by bunsen burner
That's all well and good but saying they should have been killed off like in Tasmania is absurd. You are obviously aware that they have some problems but aren't willing to understand why.

Jesus... how much more can we do for these people???? seriously. Do you know how much money in this country goes towards aboriginals??? and where the hell is it getting us?

dan warna · Feb 17, 2004

what a bunch of galahs some of you are.

many indiginous australians were not given the vote until the 60s and not recognised as human until the 50s, they were treated as virtually indentured labour in many rural communities, so they have no protestant work ethic.

they are not welcome in the cities, no one will employ them over a white person on the same pay etc.

it will take generations before they are incorporated into modern society completely, and that goes to part of the shame of how they were treated for the first 170 odd years of settle ment.

look at the american indians, the innuits, the central american indians, etc.

part of blame belongs to the settlers (us) time will heal, but some of the ignorant idiots on this forum on this issue.

there is a lot wrong with indiginious society, but ****nuckles like some here don't help with making it better.

as for drunks don't know much, but have you been outside some white peoples pubs recently? when was the last time an aboriginal got a rifle and massacred 20 odd people? or set fire to a hostel after wedging the door shut? or kidnapped backpackers and murdered them? or buried corpses in bin of the dozens they killed? etc.

there is a lot wrong with white society too. 15,000 gun related deaths in the USA p/a, compare that with about 200 in aus, even if you multiply out the populations from 20m to 300M we are still not in their league.

sure criticise, but some of you are ignorant and completely unaware of their history.

Squeak · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Imagine if no europeans, asians, or americans never came here. It wouldn't be much different to it was 200+ years ago. The rest of the world would be flying around in airplanes, communicating globally over the Internet, and then there would be this massive land mass/continent with a couple of hundred thousand people on it.

Romantic but completely ridiculous.

I'm not suggesting it would, well not exactly anyway.

Just because we introduced them to alcohol doesn't mean it's our fault that they have widespread alcohol problems.

Maybe. Maybe not. They did have basically 100+ years of booze, but no access to help when that became a problem for them.

BloodyPrincess · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by dan warna
what a bunch of galahs some of you are.

sensible post deleted.

just want to say DITTO

bunsen burner · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by Danny_Green
Jesus... how much more can we do for these people???? seriously.

We have to give them time. Do you really expect them to be quickly up to speed with europeans who are thousands of years ahead in 200 hudred years?

Do you know how much money in this country goes towards aboriginals??? and where the hell is it getting us?

Better than killing them off.

Yabba · Feb 17, 2004

"Invasion Day"

The Aboriganals calling Aust day invasion day is racist like white people calling them "coons" or some such yet they get away with it yet the moment a white person does it the are critisiced and called racist. Danny Green stick to your guns, there is a worse problem of reverse racism like that of reverse sexism

Fraka · Feb 17, 2004

Redfern Incident

I liked the fireworks....nice touch

/Just trying to lift the mood

lozstar · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by Danny_Green
So what.. the police chased a criminal... the criminal ran away and impaled himself on a fence. Its happened before. It will happen again. Is it the police's fault he got killed? No. They were chasing him because he was a criminal. If he wasn't a criminal they would not have been chasing him. Simple.

I feel wrong agreeing with alot of the things you're saying.. Good on ya for saying it too, 'bout time that someone did! But, if that kid wasn't Aboriginal there wouldn't be a big deal made it of. Reeks of protected species.

A question though about what happened last night.
I'm not meaning at all to be racist about it.. But with the way they were carrying on last night, why didn't police just start using their bullets?

bunsen burner · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by dan warna

they are not welcome in the cities, no one will employ them over a white person on the same pay etc.

Just a quick point - I had a business in Sydney for nearly three years and used to advertise every week for employment. Out of thousands of people who applied for a job I never had one aborigine apply. Somehow I don't think they're that keen to even look.

Mobbs · Feb 17, 2004

Opinions, argument, emotion is all fine, right or wrong or otherwise. But no racist or racially derogatory abuse is acceptable here.

bunsen burner · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by lozstar

But with the way they were carrying on last night, why didn't police just start using their bullets?

Redneck alert! Redneck alert!

You don't shoot/kill people for rioting.

bunsen burner · Feb 17, 2004

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
Opinions, argument, emotion is all fine, right or wrong or otherwise. But no racist or racially derogatory abuse is acceptable here.

Did I miss something?

PS try telling that to Danni. I don't think she understands.

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