Aborigines...

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Syd
Causes of the Detroit Riot

The origins of urban unrest in Detroit were rooted in a multitude of political, economic, and social factors including police abuse, lack of affordable housing, urban renewal projects, economic inequality, black militancy, and rapid demographic change.

All well and good, but these are problems not easily fixed. You can't fix these social factors. There will always be poor people. Give them $1m each and you could almost guarantee they will be back in the same spot in 5 years time.

So at the end of the day, laws are laws and if people don't abide by them, well they suffer the cosequences.

 

[EssJayW]

Originally posted by Jars458
You are very silly Clive.

Back about 20 years ago members of the ANC in South Africa used to riot all the time because they had no rights whatsover in their own country.

Now they run the country as a legitimate political party.

Whilst the sitaution here is obviously different I am only trying to point out that sometimes people riot because that is the only outlet that they have to protest the way they have been treated as they have either no legal rights or no practical way of using them.

I am sure many Aboriginal people feel that the Australian justice system is not something that can protect them or provide them with an outlet to fix what they see as their problems

This is not to condone the riots in any way but to point out there are reasons why these things happen and for people to make blanket violent statements like yours is just stupid.

Think about it.

Good point. Which brings me back to the issue of professional agitators in their community, who lead their young men on a merry dance to further their cause, without any regard for the young men involved.

I am amazed by this whole thread how people are stereotyping aborigines and police.

I am amazed by how many think that the Police chasing a fleeing offender is wrong. (But this didnt happen because a witness got on national television and said so).

I spoke to 1000s of aboriginals when in uniform, and you know what, the only ones that ran were the ones that had done something wrong. Same goes for any other race of people.

Are they scared of the Police or are they scared of being incarcerated? There is a difference.

 

[bomber_carlee]

I found that really interesting, all the 'key witnesses' said that the boy was being chased by the police, but they didnt say what he did before hand...

Interesting.

I feel bad for him that he died, but it was just one of those fate things..

 

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by GoalsFrom50Out
I wish they'd stop using Victoria Square to get smashed off their faces. Do it under the bridge over the Torrens.

so true!!! its not the safest place to be, even during the day, and its not just Vic square either!!!

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by SaveFeriss
In that case there are 100 times more white drunks, druggies, alchos, crims, raspists and other assorted scallywags than aboriginies.

...that might be because the there are alot more anglosaxons in this country than people of aboriginal decent.

 

[Syd]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
All well and good, but these are problems not easily fixed. You can't fix these social factors. There will always be poor people. Give them $1m each and you could almost guarantee they will be back in the same spot in 5 years time.

So at the end of the day, laws are laws and if people don't abide by them, well they suffer the cosequences.

Just trying to draw a parallel BB.

Social factors can be fixed to a degree. Certainly there are social prgrams and funding for education available specifically because they are aboriginal that is not extended to all other young Australians.

The fact that some use and some waste these opportunities is a reflection on the individual, not the group though.

I dont entirely disagree with your points, but I take people on a case by case basis, not as a group.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by Milkman
So how did he end up impaled on the fence? Falling off his bike? I don't think so. Anyway numerous witnesses have come forward and stated that they saw the police chase him down the ally.

What did you want the cops to do? The kid had an arrest warrant out for him, are they not supposed to arrest people that have warrants out against them? Are you saying that cops should have stopped chasing him because he went down an alley way? Please clarify.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
They also may have chased him because there was an outstanding warrant on him.

Of course

There are many reasons why the could have chased him some legitimate some not.

 

[Milkman]

Originally posted by racehorse27

Milkman, I saw the morning news and the witness in question.

for the record

she was not caught up in the hysteria
she did not have a cask in her hand
doubt she was skipping her TAFE course
she wasn't trying to sell the reporter herion
she wasn't calling the police racist scum
she was not american

she matter of factly said she saw the police chasing the boy. Police denied a vicous beating recently in melb until more witnesses came forward.

Thanks very much Racehorse27, finally some more confirmation of the eye witness account.

 

[Milkman]

Originally posted by Joel
What did you want the cops to do? The kid had an arrest warrant out for him, are they not supposed to arrest people that have warrants out against them? Are you saying that cops should have stopped chasing him because he went down an alley way? Please clarify.

I'm going to say this one more time. It's the fact that the police denied chasing him, when eye witness accounts were to the contrary. If we are to believe the eye witnesses, then surely that indicates an element of guilt on the officer's behalf.

 

[Joel]

Just a question; Why were so many young kids running around during the riot, ie. the kid that couldn't have been more than 8-10 who stole the baton from the unmarked cop car?

Where are their parents?

 

[Milkman]

Originally posted by EssJayW
Could be none of the above.

I agree, I'm just weighing up the evidence as I see it, and although it seems pretty damning, doesn't mean i'm right.

 

[feher]

Originally posted by Joel
Just a question; Why were so many young kids running around during the riot, ie. the kid that couldn't have been more than 8-10 who stole the baton from the unmarked cop car?

Where are their parents?

[edited bit] thats a question i asked many many pages ago (expcet aimed at the kid that died parents), without an answer, the truth is most parent imo don't give a toss about there kids, they also expect schools to do all the discipline and nannying and teaching, the cops to keep them inline and blaming everyone but themselves when things go wrong. Also kids are at times treated far too easly, and are let of for behaviour or treated to leanently because there kids, you know the bs excuss of they don't know better.

When ever there is a tradegy its always (media mainly) about how many women and kids/babies died, its never how many men died, well almost never ... ok i am getting way of topic.

 

[_espoir]

Originally posted by feher
the truth is most parent imo don't give a toss about there kids

until someone hurts/kill them ...then they blame the person that hurts them (mostly the police) ... goes for a lot of families..

 

[EssJayW]

So from reading this thread there appears to be conflicting stories from witnesses. I have only seen one account of what occured with the young man.

If people agree that there are conflicting stories, then the independance of the witnesses must be looked at.

Not that I am accusing any of these groups of lying but,

1. Are the police independant witnesses? I would say when it comes to conflicting stories they arent.

2. Are people from the same group as the child, independant. I would so no.

3. So that only leaves white people who may have seen what happened. If they have no agenda then they are independant. But the race card has been played by the aborigines, so thinking along those lines, there are no independant witnesses.

From the aboriginal side, the Police cant be believed. Plus a white person that conflicts with what they say cant be believed because they will be accused of being racist. I doubt many aborigines will come out with version that conflict with the aboriginal side, for fear of retribution.

So unless you believe the aboriginal side, you will be accused or racsim, and unless you agree with the police side you will be accused of being a sympathiser.

So who can win?

As for the riot itself, it was a criminal act and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

EssJayW maybe we wait and see. My input into this tread was to react to the racist remarks posted by some, calling Aborigines rock apes... I don't know who's right, but in time I hope we find out.

 

[KiNgCliVe26]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Pretty big assumption to take someone's life on.

You're not a gimmick, you're a racist and a redneck. You should go join the KKK or the Nazi party. You'd fit right in.

Theres nuthing racist about what i said. The kid got his just deserts regardless of his race. The rioters had no right to throw **** at the cops and AUSTRALIA would be better off with out these ********s that behave like that. Aboriginal or not.

 

[ComicStoreGuy]

Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Theres nuthing racist about what i said. The kid got his just deserts regardless of his race. The rioters had no right to throw **** at the cops and AUSTRALIA would be better off with out these ********s that behave like that. Aboriginal or not.

You know the poor kid do you? He may have grown up to become a great person that really contributes to society, we will NEVER know. So a life saving surgeon gets into a fight at the pub, according to you the ****er should die, no matter how many lives he may save in the future?

 

[bunsen burner]

excerpt from SMH
Roy Hickey then drove Mrs Hickey to the Sydney Children's Hospital at Randwick where at 1am on Sunday doctors pronounced TJ dead.

Yesterday, Roy Hickey told lawyers from the Aboriginal Legal Service he had been driving a community health bus down Phillip Street just after 11am when TJ came flying across the road on his bike. "The next thing I saw was a police truck pull up in the park behind the fence, but I didn't see any officers get out or anyone chasing him."

Mr Hickey stopped his bus at the rear of the tower when he saw about six officers bending over a boy on the ground near the fence. "I went over and saw that it was TJ. The officers had gloves on them and they were all covered in blood but they would not let me go near him."

Another resident, Miguez Jose, said he was at the front of the Turanga block and saw police run to the rear of the building. "He was on his back on the fence. I think it [the metal upright] was in the neck or back. They lifted him off and he started screaming and kicking on the ground."

Virginia Hickey said a man living near the Turanga block had told a friend of her family that TJ flew through the air before being impaled. "[The witnesses] said I never seen no police at all. All I could see was him in the air with the bike, it was freaky like he was going a million miles an hour."

full story:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/16/1076779907766.html

The witness Roy Hickey is the dead boy's uncle. He has no reason to lie. Make of it what you will.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Theres nuthing racist about what i said.

Are you sure?

Quote from page 4
I also agree with what danny_green is saying.

Quote from page 12
Because Green is telling it like it is. And surely one can't be banned for that. Truth Hurts. Danny_Green has the Balls to talk the truth and not hold back and the precious doo-gooders out there cant' handle it.

And that is True.

Quote from page 12
I would rather the little crim die now than to live on and steal a car and kill some INNOCENT people.

If you don't like someone calling you a racist then you should change your outlook. I noticed you didn't deny that you're a redneck. Good for you.

 

[KiNgCliVe26]

I agree with Dannygreens POV not his racist namecalling. I didn't think that was necessary to clarify.


Youy seem like one of those people that just jump at the chance label someone a racist.


And if theres something racist in the statement "I would rather the little crim die now than to live on and steal a car and kill some INNOCENT people." Then explain it to me because i never even metioned the criminals race. And would feel the same way if he were white, black, asian, america, european whatever.

Race is irrelevant some useless kid killed himself while running from the police. If he'd done nuthing wrong he wouldn't of been running and if he gave himself up he'd still be alive.

No one to blame but the kid.

As for the rioters they are just scum and behave like animals. And there should be no tolerance for that kind of behaviour in this country or any other country.

 

[TheGreatCoranzo]

Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
I agree with Dannygreens POV not his racist namecalling. I didn't think that was necessary to clarify.


Youy seem like one of those people that just jump at the chance label someone a racist.


And if theres something racist in the statement "I would rather the little crim die now than to live on and steal a car and kill some INNOCENT people." Then explain it to me because i never even metioned the criminals race. And would feel the same way if he were white, black, asian, america, european whatever.

Race is irrelevant some useless kid killed himself while running from the police. If he'd done nuthing wrong he wouldn't of been running and if he gave himself up he'd still be alive.

No one to blame but the kid.

As for the rioters they are just scum and behave like animals. And there should be no tolerance for that kind of behaviour in this country or any other country.

Talk about stereotypes?? Who says the kid would steal a car, let alone kill people with it?

Your highly judgemental, extremist views travel further than the soccer board it seems. I pity your ignorance.

 

[KiNgCliVe26]

Originally posted by TheGreatCoranzo
Talk about stereotypes?? Who says the kid would steal a car, let alone kill people with it?

WTF? He's a crimininal and will probably grow up to be a criminal its best his life ended now before innocent people get hurt. Like the rioters who hurt men that were doing there jobs.

I'd feel the same way regardless of his race or the race of the rioters.

Coranzo are you saying its typical of aboriginal people to steal cars? Cos i sure as hell never said such a thing. But you imply that.

 

[GoalsFrom50Out]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aborigines...

Originally posted by anniswan
Yeah we may have built the cities, but it was land that was stolen from them.

Bollocks. If the English hadn't have landed here and claimed Australia, than it would've been the Dutch or the French.

Just from the general gist of what I've been doing in History on Revolutionary France - I don't think you would've wanted Napoleon in charge of early Australia.

 

[TheGreatCoranzo]

Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
WTF? He's a crimininal and will probably grow up to be a criminal its best his life ended now before innocent people get hurt. Like the rioters who hurt men that were doing there jobs.

I'd feel the same way regardless of his race or the race of the rioters.

Coranzo are you saying its typical of aboriginal people to steal cars? Cos i sure as hell never said such a thing. But you imply that.

This would have to be the lamest attempt i've seen of someone trying to put words in my mouth. That was really very poor.

You suggested the kid would steal cars and kill people with it. I am telling you that your 'opinion' is highly stereotypical (i.e. apparently all criminals steal cars and kill people with them) and extremist. I don't see anything being implied at all.

Now answer my question and tell me what the kid in question was wanted for?