Abortion

Gus Poyet

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And I can't think of any Australian medical school that still performs the Hippocratic oath there's one in NZ I think, please inform me which medical school in Australia still requires the old Hippocratic oath.
University of NSW allows students to draft their own. Thus any student could write an oath which states they will never take part in any actions to do with things like abortions.
 

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Gus Poyet

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Oh so if it's not a healthy foetus then abortion is ok?

Your in favour of an abortion if there's complications during pregnancy?

Erhm given I've never said I'm against abortion I don't know where you are coming from.

I'm against forcing people to partake in them in any shape or form if they do not agree with the practice.
 

Sydney Bloods

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University of NSW allows students to draft their own. Thus any student could write an oath which states they will never take part in any actions to do with things like abortions.
Can they? I'm not so sure it's no holds barred. I'm pretty sure there's rules on what you can and can't put in there

Fyi you still haven't answered my question as to where all these doctors taking the original oath are coming from.
 

Gus Poyet

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Can they? I'm not so sure it's no holds barred. I'm pretty sure there's rules on what you can and can't put in there

Fyi you still haven't answered my question as to where all these doctors taking the original oath are coming from.

I put that up in reference to your views in regards to undermining western medicine when in fact it played a huge part in western medicine. it never undermined it, it helped build it.
 

DivideandMultiply

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no

there is a thing called the AMA which controls the supply of new doctors and thus controls the market price


we could have better candidates, better trained doctors and better job satisfaction for doctors with a better system. Doctor suicide rates says something is wrong.

Designed by men, for men and more than that....rich men. it is a system outdated with buying a officer rank in the military.
Ok, so you have no evidence to support the notion that Dr.'s are paid x3 what they should be?

We are not experiencing a GP shortage that is driving up wages, created by some nefarious peak membership body placing a bottle neck on supply, in fact the issue is far more complex. We have over supply in many regions, but under supply in rural areas.

Criticisms of the AMA aside, doctor salaries are no greater in Australia and in some cases substantially less than OECD equivalents.

Especially when looking at graduate wages, a median of 60k is hardly x3 what it should be, especially when compared to dentistry, the earth sciences and a number of engineering fields. The median salary for a GP (relevant to your) interests is 200k. 1/3 of that is 66.7K rounded up, which is far from reasonable.

You sound like a offended employer, or management complaining about staff costs. There is simply no substantive evidence doctors in Australia are overpaid and I for one are happy that wages in the field are high, given both the importance of medical practitioners, the responsibilities associated with the job and the individual cost to students.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Ok, so you have no evidence to support the notion that Dr.'s are paid x3 what they should be?

We are not experiencing a GP shortage that is driving up wages, created by some nefarious peak membership body placing a bottle neck on supply, in fact the issue is far more complex. We have over supply in many regions, but under supply in rural areas.

Criticisms of the AMA aside, doctor salaries are no greater in Australia and in some cases substantially less than foreign equivalents.

Especially when looking at graduate wages, a median of 60k is hardly x3 what it should be, especially when compared to dentistry, the earth sciences and a number of engineering fields.

You sound like a offended employer, or management complaining about staff costs. There is simply no substantive evidence doctors in Australia are overpaid and I for one are happy that wages in the field are high, given both the importance of medical practitioners, the responsibilities associated with the job and the individual cost to students.
$500,000 is way too much

$200,000 is way too much

$140,000 would be about right
 

Gus Poyet

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A Doctor is worth what they can earn or get someone to pay them. Just like any other job.
 

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Gus Poyet

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not if the government is subsidising their education, pay, infrastructure and entire sector.

Even then.

They are in an industry where poaching from overseas is very much a posibility. The more they can make, the less likely we are to losing them.
 

MrCharisma

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I like how you have not been paying attention. The man has no right to responsibility. That's been made abundently clear.

As the man has no say in the abortion, it is down to the moronic womans actions.
I'm not talking about the law, you have missed the point. I'm talking about your hypocritical sentiments, which are irrelevant to said laws. You're simply referring to the rare cases where a woman has an abortion contrary to what the man has wanted. Which I have said before, is the man's problem, not anyone else's.

I'm talking about every time you mention acts of unplanned pregnancy from promiscuous sex, you are always putting the women to blame and not the man, which is contrary to your sentiment that a man is "equally responsible for the creation of life".
 

Gus Poyet

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I'm not talking about the law, you have missed the point. I'm talking about your hypocritical sentiments, which are irrelevant to said laws. You're simply referring to the rare cases where a woman has an abortion contrary to what the man has wanted. Which I have said before, is the man's problem, not anyone else's.

I'm talking about every time you mention acts of unplanned pregnancy from promiscuous sex, you are always putting the women to blame and not the man, which is contrary to your sentiment that a man is "equally responsible for the creation of life".

It is the womans fault, we've been told enough times that their body is their own to do with. It's up to her to ensure nothing happens to it, nobody else. Getting pregnant is thus all down to their chosen actions. It's the consequences that are then potentially shared.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Even then.

They are in an industry where poaching from overseas is very much a posibility. The more they can make, the less likely we are to losing them.
true


there are many barriers to break through to reduce the cost of doctors. The AMA, over educating but under training, the fact that the medical industry is managed by doctors not managers and insurance companies are incentivised to keep costs high. Over all of that we are faced with the problem that what ever we do here, on our own, will fail as they are a part of a global market.
 

clogged

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$500,000 is way too much

$200,000 is way too much

$140,000 would be about right
I find it a bit much that a person who claims to have enough money to invest in all sorts of schemes thinks that people who actively help the ill and assist with people's health should have their salaries driven down to a third of what they earn.
 

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TheBrownDog
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I find it a bit much that a person who claims to have enough money to invest in all sorts of schemes thinks that people who actively help the ill and assist with people's health should have their salaries driven down to a third of what they earn.
is it that horrible to want to see affordable health care for our community. Especially for young aboriginal kids who are shunting into a "black queue". Wouldn't it be nice to provide a service which is for and within the mainstream of society?

Oh and I didn't say I was going to cut the wages by 3. I said they were over paid by 3. There is a big difference.


In terms of money, I got lucky and acknowledge that. Nevertheless, my lifestyle is very modest and put some $ into a "do not lose" account.

with the rest I gamble/ invest in a number of industries to make a difference here and OS. Health, property, power, mining, agriculture, IT, manufacturing are just to name a few sectors. Each have there own objective and managers but all share the same vision of making a difference.
 

Gus Poyet

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Gee, how I've missed the post war 40s. Good to see someone is trying to keep alive the attitudes we had back then.

Good to see you"re a fan boi for the "it's someone elses fault, never mine" crusade.
 

DivideandMultiply

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I don't see how $140,000 pa attracts the best talent to medicine.
That for me is the kicker. It isn't like many other sectors where, lower wages simply may equate to a lower standard of employee, meaning worse productivity, poorer service, quality control marginally suffering etc. etc.

A drop in clinical outcomes, equals loss of life. There is no rationalising it. It also means a spike in malpractice suits, leading to higher insurance costs.

Healthcare, though our system is far from perfect and medical research are two rare things we get largely right. Radical changes to the current system, like selling the government insurer, or overhauling the AMA, or trying to drive down the salaries of medical professionals, is really not going to be of benefit.
 

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