Abuse of the 457 visa scheme
- Thread starter Dry Rot
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How odd that on BF where there is so much wailing and gnashing of teeth over workchoices that this thread got no interest.
Its blatantly clear that high levels of unskilled migration will suppress the wages of the lowest paid (even much of the so called skilled labour is nothing of the sort).
If Rudd genuinely cares about the lower paid then why does he let this situation persist? And why does the union movement let him engage in such blatant bribery of the etnic community at the expense of their own members?
A disgraceful effort all round by all parties.
Its blatantly clear that high levels of unskilled migration will suppress the wages of the lowest paid (even much of the so called skilled labour is nothing of the sort).
If Rudd genuinely cares about the lower paid then why does he let this situation persist? And why does the union movement let him engage in such blatant bribery of the etnic community at the expense of their own members?
A disgraceful effort all round by all parties.
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- #4
Meds point is a good one - there's been a lot of stories like this in the news:
457 visa workers left penniless, homeless
Malcolm Knox and Matthew Moore
September 13, 2007
EIGHTEEN months ago, Gong Wei and Huang Jiandong arrived in Sydney hoping to build prosperity for their families in China. Yesterday the two men were homeless, penniless and on the brink of deportation, the latest victims to slip through the cracks of the skilled worker visa scheme.
Mr Gong, 32, and Mr Huang, 37, say they are each owed more than $30,000, which was taken from their bank accounts by their former employer, Frank Wang. Mr Wang says they spent their money on "girls" and are harassing him for money he does not owe them.
The case is being investigated by police, the Immigration Department and the Workplace Ombudsman. Meanwhile, Mr Gong and Mr Huang were yesterday evicted from their home and, with no rights to stay in Australia, fear they will be sent back to China before anyone helps.
A parliamentary inquiry's report into the 457 visa scheme yesterday called for changes to it, including the introduction of a "confidential complaints mechanism" to allow workers to report breaches without being punished by their employers.
Mr Gong, a carpenter, and Mr Huang, a construction worker, who each have a young child, were approached by their supervisor at a building site in Jiangsu province early last year. He knew a man who had a relative in Australia named Frank Wang who needed two workers.
Mr Wang sponsored Mr Gong and Mr Huang on 457 visas to work in Sydney for two years. But their contracts did not meet 457 visa conditions, which stipulate a minimum wage payment of $41,850, among others. The men also had to pay a $8065 "deposit" to Mr Wang's representative in China.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...niless-homeless/2007/09/12/1189276809767.html
The Old Dark Navy's
Moderator
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- #6
In my job, I happen across S457 Visa workers occasionally. The ones I have dealt with are skilled and there is a myriad of conditions attached to their employment. Like anything, there are good examples and bad examples and every single thing is susceptible to people doing the wrong thing. Not sure the whole program can be canned on the basis of hand picked media stories.
Some industries simply do not get Australians putting their hand up to work there so Visa workers are their only chance. Abattoirs are a prime example of this.
Some industries simply do not get Australians putting their hand up to work there so Visa workers are their only chance. Abattoirs are a prime example of this.
telsor
Hall of Famer
I think the most important distinction/problem is working out WHY an employer can't find people.
In IT ( my industry ), a lot of it has more to do with wages not meeting requirements.
eg. I want someone with 10 years experience for about the same wage as a uni graduate would think twice about. Nobody applies? Blame the skill shortage and hire from overseas.
That's not to say there aren't genuine cases of shortage, but many have more to do with Cheap employers than too few people.
My bigger concern though is how it mixes with Workchoices...The redeeming feature of which is supposed to be that the supply/demand of labour sets the 'price'...but due to 457 visas, if supply ever gets short, they'll just add to it.
In IT ( my industry ), a lot of it has more to do with wages not meeting requirements.
eg. I want someone with 10 years experience for about the same wage as a uni graduate would think twice about. Nobody applies? Blame the skill shortage and hire from overseas.
That's not to say there aren't genuine cases of shortage, but many have more to do with Cheap employers than too few people.
My bigger concern though is how it mixes with Workchoices...The redeeming feature of which is supposed to be that the supply/demand of labour sets the 'price'...but due to 457 visas, if supply ever gets short, they'll just add to it.
Working miles from anywhere - spend most their wages in the 'company' store
Dictatorial rules
sounds ver 1850s Britain to me. Its a scandal wherever and whenever it happens
Dictatorial rules
sounds ver 1850s Britain to me. Its a scandal wherever and whenever it happens
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #9
In the case I was referring to, the Visa workers get what the Australian workers get so it is very much a case of nobody wanting to do that particular job.
The Abbotoirs will do everything in their power to make it hard for the workers they have to make sure they can use that excuse. I work in Jobnet and plenty of workers go for these jobs but???? don't get in no details why given?
Chief Skilled Migration
There are basically 2 types
1 List of Occupations and Sub types IE Doctor IT-SAP Consultant etc, these are automatic and the list is updated regularly
2 Labour Market testing IE Thai Chef, you must show that you have tried to recruit locally but to no success
These visas have been misused over 15 + years I have delt with them. But if anything Howard has made them harder to get, but not hard enough.
They are being used as a cheaper alternative to training Australians in many cases or creating a cheaper workforce for the Big Players especially in IT. Also on a Macro level Howard is using it to underfund universities
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Except, when the local owner doesn't even advertise locally for jobs. Local abs up this way, over the last few years has changed its workforce to overseas workers. They are the lifeblood of the small town, changed jobs specs, workers pay rates, hours etc. Then said no one wanted jobs, so got these skilled workers from overseas in instead, on cheaper rates of pay, longer hours.
You are only as good as your bosses integrity.
Whats the go with unskilled workers. We have a lot of Kprean workers locally in the strawberry farms.They used to be good jobs for locals, in season. Now they have imported workers, you rarely see any strawberry jobs advertised any more.Taking jobs from locals, who would have thought it....
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Luckily the smartest man in parliament looks after this
r Kevin Andrews. Another of his dud areas of expertise.
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Exactly. Come to the local abs and strawberry farms up our way. Lots of abuse of the scheme here. We never see the jobs advertised locally.
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #17
I can only speak about the ones I have visited obviously but they had heaps of Australian workers but not enough to keep up with the work. They go overseas, employ experienced knifesmen after video taping them at work and ensuring competency, promote Australian workers to make sure there are more supervisors on the floor along with translators for every ethnic group. It would seem counter productive to spend more money to get these guys over here and train them up to the right level and allow for communication. They also had out of hours mentors to help them integrate into society.
I think if these things are done properly, they are workable. Comes down to Immigration checks and employment related checks such as the ones we do. (OHS related by the way, not employment conditions).
All I can say is that it is not a forgotten issue. It was never an issue for us before but the political climate has tacked it on to our duties, so rest assured someone is concerned and watching.
With the much discussed 'aging population' phenomeneon around the world more and more countries will try to make up the shortfall waorkers and skilled workers due to under-training through immigration.
Of course there seems to be an endless supply from countries eg china but this is not always what 'some people' want as migrants.
I see a situation where prospective migrants become more picky and may even go to places which PAY to get the right people (eg Ireland).
Countries which run down their education sectors will be caught out big time
Of course there seems to be an endless supply from countries eg china but this is not always what 'some people' want as migrants.
I see a situation where prospective migrants become more picky and may even go to places which PAY to get the right people (eg Ireland).
Countries which run down their education sectors will be caught out big time
Particularly those with govts such as the UK which are for more concerned with the amount spent on education rather than the what is actually produced.
A lesson sadly lost on so many.
Thanks for that..From my side the Abbotior wont even rehire ex Employees which left on good terms. Make transport a huge issue when a train station is 10 mins away with them running during the shifts.
Will not give any feedback to why they reject an applicant.
They complain about how they cannot get anybody to apply
yet we were taking up to 10 people there weekly with success rate of one or two if lucky.
Yet they got X amount of Employees from China with the poor buggers living in a caravan park with slum like conditions.
The Old Dark Navy's
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- #22
I guess there are always going to be good or bad operators.
The government should not allow a company to qualify if there are locals around willing to do the work.
Today I went somewhere where they have Chinese welders in. Seems all the welders head off to the mines where the pay is bigger and local industries struggle big time to keep up with production demand.
Seems the government might be approving these things to anybody without doing the appropriate industry checks.
Not at all.
For a start unregulated labour will keep a min wage (and pseudo min wage via welfare).
What would happen in unregulated labour is wage differentials would increase. Overall wages wouldnt fall or rise much.
However, a large amount of unskilled labour coming in to Australia is clearly a different kettle of fish. It is for this reason that the US low paid have suffered no decent real increase in their rates. Its also as the BOE have pointed out a big factor in inflation staying low in the UK ie Poles suppressing wages.
The union movement should be vehemently opposed to this.
Not only this but family reunion which is basically the same thing to a very large degree.
Rear Admiral
Club Legend
Make no msitake, there are some jobs where employers do struggle to fill job positions, and Abattoir work is a perfect example. Others are certain jobs that require multilingual skills. So there are indeed jobs that require specific overseas applicants, but these jobs (in overall percentage terms) are a tiny, tiny minority. Here's just one article discussing these issues:
http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migration-population/submissions/sub009/sub009.pdf
"Immigration and population growth cause:
1. A relative increase in the scarcity of resources and natural assets such as water, arable land, forests, mineral deposits and fish stocks;
2. Infrastructure such as roads, schools and hospitals, telecommunications networks, electricity and water supply systems and sewerage networks to become overburdened, and requires expensive new infrastructure to be built;
3. Wages of workers to fall;
4. Unemployment;
5. A shortage of affordable housing;
6. Environmental degradation.
Skilled migrant program failing
By John Masanauskas
The Herald Sun (Melbourne), July 21, 2005
Australia's skilled migration program could face an overhaul after a review ordered by the Federal Government. Thousands of skilled migrants are either unemployed or languishing in low-skilled jobs.
7 July 2004 Australian Financial Review
Immigrants taking local IT jobs: report
By David Crowe
Thousands of low-cost workers are entering the country and undermining the job prospects of new computer science graduates, according to a report commissioned for the federal government that calls for drastic changes to skilled migration."
The foreign student industry and backpacker workers are additional rorts. Some other obvious ones are nursing/aged care, roadwork/labourers, and cleaners. These are but a few of the industries that have been utterly swamped with foreign workers, while Australian applicants are often ignored.
In the instance of Abattoir work (or any type of work that is unpopular), the answer is simple:
- Have more training (that goes for all jobs).
- Increase the wages.
Link
Link
"It is quite difficult trying to find the right person to fill a job. Our business is very varied, we never know what we are going to do from one day to the next so I need to find employees who are very capable across a wide range of skills, not only specialist work but heavy duty but also dependable and reliable to turn up to work on time. Being in Karratha there is a huge shortage of places to stay, and so I’m very limited for I either have to find a place for a worker to stay or I have to pick someone locally that has a place to stay already."
"I get a bit of a mixture of local workers and I have couple of 457 visa workers who I have provided accommodation for."
"One of the things we are not very good in Australia is internal migration. I am from Western Australia myself and we have been totally unsuccessful in attracting people from over east over the years and we rely on overseas migration - the Irish, the South African, etc, to fill jobs in WA because people won't move from Victoria and NSW to take those jobs."
"We advocated that before Australian employers look for temporary workers overseas they ought to be obliged to show that they have tried to get local workers who have suitable skills first. That is not part of the current immigration scheme and it should be."
In many instances, agencies/employers pay to have foreign workers flown to Australia, along with accommodation arrangements. In the cases where businesses would need to get Australian applicants to relocate for the job (often to remote/regional communities), where they have to pay for the cost of relocation (which is typically a huge cost), and then they have to find (and pay for) accommodation. And then there's schools for kids, hospitals/healthcare, etc. So how are Australian job applicants supposed to compete with foreign workers in many of these circumstances? It begs investigation into the reasons and motivations behind why agencies/employers often go to the trouble of paying for and organising travel for workers from overseas, along with accommodation in Australia. If you ran a business, what reason would there be for you to go to the trouble of paying for overseas workers' travel costs and accommodation?
So when considering all these issues, yes, there are indeed some jobs that Australian businesses struggle to get applicants for. But if you look at the bigger picture, these hard-to-fill vacancies are a tiny minority. In fact barely a drop in the bucket. None of this is meant to vilify the foreign workers themselves, but the current Government and significant parts of the business community are an outright disgrace.
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Rear Admiral
Club Legend
The answer's simple - raise the wages if a job is unpopular. But no, let's just import cheaper labour instead.
