Academy v Father-Sons

Remove this Banner Ad

Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
I'd love to see Teffy's justifications for how he can say someone has a greater connection to a club automatically on the count that they were born to a past player...

We know you have your dirty cotton pickin' mitts all over Byron Pickett Junior!

We won't be leaving him behind either.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

I knew i should of used a "roll eyes" emoji.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I know, I was being a smartass.

King is strangely vocal on the subject for some reason, as he is normally not that defensive of North in the media. Playing his old man for a little while might have swayed him on the F/S subject.

Even Wayne Carey isn't that crash hot on North in the media.

Even GWS had Dermie to defend you guys during the shitter times.
Yeah. He should be like every other football fan and sort of forget North Melbourne exists.
Please, what would Chief do without his north posters, his ad revenue will drop by quite a bit, although server maintenance costs would go down substantially. ;)
 
Dec 28, 2007
32,780
64,028
3121
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Richmond 2019 Premiers
Just something a bit left field here, Im thinking Blakey is a swans supporter

Say you were a 18 year old kid with the same options
would you go to a club your dad played for but have no affiliation with
or
Would you play for the team that you have barracked for and have an affiliation with


The Rules are in place and need to be respected accordingly, The kid has a choice and he deserves to have this choice due to his father playing for 2 other clubs But he also has been or still is in the swans Academy and has lived there for many years.

Kids a Swan
 
Feb 28, 2007
51,384
66,884
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Just something a bit left field here, Im thinking Blakey is a swans supporter

Say you were a 18 year old kid with the same options
would you go to a club your dad played for but have no affiliation with
or
Would you play for the team that you have barracked for and have an affiliation with


The Rules are in place and need to be respected accordingly, The kid has a choice and he deserves to have this choice due to his father playing for 2 other clubs But he also has been or still is in the swans Academy and has lived there for many years.

Kids a Swan

There is one other factor as well. At North he will almost be guaranteed game time almost immediately, but at the Swans he might have to spend some time in the NEAFL.
 

TheKITC

Cancelled
Mar 7, 2009
2,937
4,409
The Cupboard
AFL Club
Carlton
"Hopper relocated from Leeton to Ballarat in 2014 where he was schooled at St Patrick’s College and played for North Ballarat Rebels in the TAC Cup... [he] said he spent one week with the GWS academy and the club flew him in to play a NEAFL match for the reserves last year."

Hopper was always bound for the AFL draft as a hot prospect, growing up in an Aussie rules town where dad James ran the Auskick program.

“I was playing footy since I could walk, pretty much,” he said.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...l/news-story/07598f03169668d3e2f85073619f782e

Whilst the AFL (rightfully) shut down the Riverina plundering, you can only laugh at the posters claiming that certain players would be lost on the game and/or wouldn't be developed as well as they have been when defending the northern academies.

Generally speaking, I like the academies. I like them in terms of how they are promoting our game in hard markets as well as developing players and potentially luring talent from other sports. The massive problem I have is that there are going to free hits and advantages with kids who are always AFL bound and would make the grade/be guns regardless. There will always be Jacob Hoppers or Nick Riewoldts or Lenny Hayes' or Haydn Buntons and these clubs not only get first rights to them, they get a discount on them for gods sake. That is what stinks to high hell about the academies.

'Oh but other clubs can bid on them and we pay market value'. Rubbish. If you want them you get them with the added benefit of a discount (why?) and unlike father sons from a limited pool, you get a multitude to choose from (not necessarily select granted) every year.

There needs to be a ruling of some sort and at least some clarity around how much footy these boys have played and/or what other sports they have competed in. I'm sorry but I'm not eating up the "I wouldn't be here without the xxxx academy" the players spoon feed the media every year after they have been drafted; the puppet strings are far too visable.

In terms of this thread, I have to say that I think it's rubbish that Sydney has discounted rights to Blakey. The argument that he wouldn't be as developed or even be playing the game if it wasn't for the Swans academy doesn't cut the mustard for mine. It's not in the spirit of what the academies (according to the official line anyway) are for and it doesn't sit right with me. If he doesn't want to be a F/S, he goes into the draft like everyone else.
 
Last edited:
Apr 12, 2012
45,991
41,669
AFL Club
GWS
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...l/news-story/07598f03169668d3e2f85073619f782e

Whilst the AFL (rightfully) shut down the Riverina plundering, you can only laugh at the posters claiming that certain players would be lost on the game and/or wouldn't be developed as well as they have been when defending the northern academies.

Generally speaking, I like the academies. I like them in terms of how they are promoting our game in hard markets as well as developing players and potentially luring talent from other sports. The massive problem I have is that there are going to free hits and advantages with kids who are always AFL bound and would make the grade/be guns regardless. There will always be Jacob Hoppers or Nick Riewoldts or Lenny Hayes' or Haydn Buntons and these clubs not only get first rights to them, they get a discount on them for gods sake. That is what stinks to high hell about the academies.

'Oh but other clubs can bid on them and we pay market value'. Rubbish. If you want them you get them with the added benefit of a discount (why?).

There needs to be a ruling of some sort and at least some clarity around how much footy these boys have played and/or what other sports they have competed in. I'm sorry but I'm not eating up the "I wouldn't be here without the xxxx academy" the players spoon feed the media every year after they have been drafted; the puppet strings are far too visable.

In terms of this thread, I have to say that I think it's rubbish that Sydney has discounted rights to Blakey. The argument that he wouldn't be as developed or even be playing the game if it wasn't for the Swans academy doesn't cut the mustard for mine. It's not in the spirit of what the academies (according to the official line anyway) are for and it doesn't sit right with me. If he doesn't want to be a F/S, he goes into the draft like everyone else.

As has been said. Have a national under 18s and reserves. Then we can get rid of academies and f/s.

Otherwise no northern club fans or those with any common sense will ever demand their closure.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
There is one other factor as well. At North he will almost be guaranteed game time almost immediately, but at the Swans he might have to spend some time in the NEAFL.
Not necessarily with North. We try to pump VFL time into all our kids first, it is rare for them to be exposed to an entire AFL season straight up. Only Mcdonald and Simpkin are the two that have largely played AFL level footy from day 1 in the last 8-10 years.
Just something a bit left field here, Im thinking Blakey is a swans supporter

Say you were a 18 year old kid with the same options
would you go to a club your dad played for but have no affiliation with
or
Would you play for the team that you have barracked for and have an affiliation with


The Rules are in place and need to be respected accordingly, The kid has a choice and he deserves to have this choice due to his father playing for 2 other clubs But he also has been or still is in the swans Academy and has lived there for many years.

Kids a Swan
It's not like he doesn't have an affiliation with North Melbourne. He is good friends with Joel Crocker (at least on social media and father-son clinics), who would be another F/S candidate for North, and North are quite active in their F/S clinics. Even Brisbane have been involved with Blakey, as evidenced by the picture of him in a lions uniform.

This academy v F/S stuff is going to rear its head again when Byron Pickett's boy comes through, as Port could potentially put junior Pickett into their academy. Thankfully Chop has a stronger allegiance to North by all reports (he even mentioned about a year ago) and has pushed his son to do the same.
 
Last edited:

TheKITC

Cancelled
Mar 7, 2009
2,937
4,409
The Cupboard
AFL Club
Carlton
As has been said. Have a national under 18s and reserves. Then we can get rid of academies and f/s.

Otherwise no northern club fans or those with any common sense will ever demand their closure.

Nice try at deflecting and attempting to subtly insult me rather than address my post, which you clearly didn't read as I have never 'demanded their closure' but actually said I think they are good but come with currently skewed advantages.

Try again.
 
Apr 12, 2012
45,991
41,669
AFL Club
GWS
Nice try at deflecting and attempting to subtly insult me rather than address my post, which you clearly didn't read as I have never 'demanded their closure' but actually said I think they are good but come with currently skewed advantages.

Try again.

Eh? Havent insulted you at all.

Skewed? Not at all.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 
As has been said. Have a national under 18s and reserves. Then we can get rid of academies and f/s.

Otherwise no northern club fans or those with any common sense will ever demand their closure.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
It is ridiculous that we don't have a national reserves comp (Le Grille). Look at the non-AFL affiliated VFL clubs in this incidence, most of them struggle against the affiliated clubs. Then again, I know there are some counter-arguments to the national reserves comp idea.

Plus it would mean additional AFL logistical support for developing elite junior talent. Even then, the AFL should be adding more funding to non-traditional AFL states for junior development.
 
Apr 12, 2012
45,991
41,669
AFL Club
GWS
It is ridiculous that we don't have a national reserves comp (Le Grille). Look at the non-AFL affiliated VFL clubs in this incidence, most of them struggle against the affiliated clubs. Then again, I know there are some counter-arguments to the national reserves comp idea.

Plus it would mean additional AFL logistical support for developing elite junior talent. Even then, the AFL should be adding more funding to non-traditional AFL states for junior development.

The northern clubs are already flying all over NT NSW and Qld.

The downside for some would be that the state leagues would again drop down the ladder to the 3rd rung.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

The northern clubs are already flying all over NT NSW and Qld.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Do you believe that GWS' AFL second's and youth would benefit more from the NEAFL or a National Reserves competition?

It would be awesome to see a national reserves game as a curtain raiser to the main AFL game, but logistically, it would be more expensive if the AFL or clubs ran it.
 
Apr 12, 2012
45,991
41,669
AFL Club
GWS
Do you believe that GWS' AFL second's and youth would benefit more from the NEAFL or a National Reserves competition?

It would be awesome to see a national reserves game as a curtain raiser to the main AFL game, but logistically, it would be more expensive if the AFL or clubs ran it.

From a purely club standpoint a National reserves is better with regard to the competition we would be facing.
Would also benefit the crowd getting 2 games instead of 1.
But it would also end the NeAFL and the 3 states would go back to being "city" leagues.

With regard to cost. Fox may pay the expenses as a deal to put on tv like what they do with the NRC rugby.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

TheKITC

Cancelled
Mar 7, 2009
2,937
4,409
The Cupboard
AFL Club
Carlton
Eh? Havent insulted you at all.

Skewed? Not at all.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

You inferred that I was calling for the academies to be closed and people doing so are without 'common sense'.

I have outlined how I think the academy system is currently skewed, you quoted me but don't want to address the points I made. Saying "not at all" isn't a very strong rebuttal or anything really...
 
Last edited:

Kummerspeck

Cancelled
Pokemon is Life
Sep 12, 2013
5,219
5,356
AFL Club
Sydney
Stick to selling old cars.

This stuff might go over well with the chardy set, but this chat forum is made up of more than ignorant Sydneysiders
Ah Teffy, you never did like it when people wouldn't just take your lying. Tell me all you know about development pathways in Northern NSW and North Sydney before the academies.
 
Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
You inferred that I was calling for the academies to be closed and people doing so are without 'common sense'.

I have outlined how I think the academy system is currently skewed, you quoted me but don't want to address the points I made. Saying "not at all" isn't a very strong rebuttal or anything really...

Alex Jesaulenko, Wayne Carey, Paul Kelly, John Longmire, James Hird, etc all happened by accident.

They were playing marbles one day, and the next day they picked up a footy and became automatic freaks, because it was simply not possible for talent to prosper in New South Wales and Canberra, before the Sydney Swans got there.:rolleyes:
 
Apr 24, 2013
81,024
153,170
Arden Street Hill
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Essendon Lawn Bowls Club
All of whom grew up no where near Sydney.

Without the need for a Sydney Swans academy.:rolleyes:

Anyway, this rubbish is nothing more than a distraction anyway.

Academy or not, the father/son rule must not be prostituted for the sake of expansion.
 

Kummerspeck

Cancelled
Pokemon is Life
Sep 12, 2013
5,219
5,356
AFL Club
Sydney
Alex Jesaulenko, Wayne Carey, Paul Kelly, John Longmire, James Hird, etc all happened by accident.

While it should be obvious that "because these players were drafted from there almost thirty years ago, it proves there's no need for extensive development" is a terrible argument, liz addressed your mindless rambling on this topic a few pages back.
 
Apr 12, 2012
45,991
41,669
AFL Club
GWS
Whilst the AFL (rightfully) shut down the Riverina plundering, you can only laugh at the posters claiming that certain players would be lost on the game and/or wouldn't be developed as well as they have been when defending the northern academies.

Yep because players from above the the border were flooding the draft before the academies. When you compare the numbers to the population size. It was very poor.
Development now is much better dye to the Academies, hemse the pitcry from mostly Vics.
And just because you dont believe the players doesnt make what you say true. Hense the term its your opinion.

Generally speaking, I like the academies. I like them in terms of how they are promoting our game in hard markets as well as developing players and potentially luring talent from other sports. The massive problem I have is that there are going to free hits and advantages with kids who are always AFL bound and would make the grade/be guns regardless. There will always be Jacob Hoppers or Nick Riewoldts or Lenny Hayes' or Haydn Buntons and these clubs not only get first rights to them, they get a discount on them for gods sake. That is what stinks to high hell about the academies.

As they should as they are the ones developing them from the ground up in a traditional northern state sports way.


'Oh but other clubs can bid on them and we pay market value'. Rubbish. If you want them you get them with the added benefit of a discount (why?) and unlike father sons from a limited pool, you get a multitude to choose from (not necessarily select granted) every year.

The main talent pool is victorian based.
F/s still get benefits on top of this.

Academies help the comp.

There needs to be a ruling of some sort and at least some clarity around how much footy these boys have played and/or what other sports they have competed in. I'm sorry but I'm not eating up the "I wouldn't be here without the xxxx academy" the players spoon feed the media every year after they have been drafted; the puppet strings are far too visable.

So you dont believe the players when they say it? Well thats an issue for you.
The development side of things is important as the Northern states dont have the structures in place that the traditional states have. Hense academies.

In terms of this thread, I have to say that I think it's rubbish that Sydney has discounted rights to Blakey. The argument that he wouldn't be as developed or even be playing the game if it wasn't for the Swans academy doesn't cut the mustard for mine. It's not in the spirit of what the academies (according to the official line anyway) are for and it doesn't sit right with me. If he doesn't want to be a F/S, he goes into the draft like everyone else.

There is no development besides the academies up here.

He would have to move back down south or play in the poor state league.

He has a choice and if f/s is important to him he will choose North. Or if being close to family and playing for the club he has been with all through his development then he will choose Sydney.





Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Kummerspeck

Cancelled
Pokemon is Life
Sep 12, 2013
5,219
5,356
AFL Club
Sydney
. The massive problem I have is that there are going to free hits and advantages with kids who are always AFL bound and would make the grade/be guns regardless. There will always be Jacob Hoppers or Nick Riewoldts or Lenny Hayes' or Haydn Buntons
So where were those players in any noteworthy number in the decade and a half before the academies? Where were these ready AFL players coming out of the Tweed or Newcastle or Brisbane's northern suburbs? Why had the spigot been dry for going on two decades before the academies settled in?

There needs to be a ruling of some sort and at least some clarity around how much footy these boys have played and/or what other sports they have competed in. I'm sorry but I'm not eating up the "I wouldn't be here without the xxxx academy" the players spoon feed the media every year after they have been drafted; the puppet strings are far too visable.
To what end? For years the Hunter and NNSW has sent rep teams to carinvals packed with kids who've been playing for a number of years. How many go into the AFL from there?

In terms of this thread, I have to say that I think it's rubbish that Sydney has discounted rights to Blakey. The argument that he wouldn't be as developed or even be playing the game if it wasn't for the Swans academy doesn't cut the mustard for mine.
Why not? It's not like the Roos boys went amazingly despite having amazing footballing genetics.
It's not in the spirit of what the academies (according to the official line anyway) are for and it doesn't sit right with me. If he doesn't want to be a F/S, he goes into the draft like everyone else.

To provide development pathways for areas and players where there weren't previously? What development pathway would Nick have gone into without the academy? Moving to Victoria like the Roos boys?
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back