Academy Watch

[Quigley]

Surely the only relevant performance measure for an academy is its success in developing AFL standard players. So is the Suns academy that far ahead of us in that regard, if at all?

The GC have about 10 academy guys on their list from the last three years and this year's group look better again than the Lions by a fair margin with 2 or 3 likely prospects.

So yes it has been well ahead of us for a few years now and looks like continuing to be for a while.

 

[mattsmob]

The GC have about 10 academy guys on their list from the last three years and this year's group look better again than the Lions by a fair margin with 2 or 3 likely prospects.

So yes it has been well ahead of us for a few years now and looks like continuing to be for a while.

I still think if you put all of our academy kids next to Gold Coasts then we have the better players. Having said that the last few years have been disappointing although we’ve performed better in the first two NAB league games than I was prepared for which is nice.

 

[Quigley]

I still think if you put all of our academy kids next to Gold Coasts then we have the better players. Having said that the last few years have been disappointing although we’ve performed better in the first two NAB league games than I was prepared for which is nice.

Yeah I think we were well ahead of the GC until 5 years or so ago and since then they have been going forward and we have been going backwards. The lower level club and school programs also contribute a fair bit to that I think.

 

[briztoon]

I still think if you put all of our academy kids next to Gold Coasts then we have the better players. Having said that the last few years have been disappointing although we’ve performed better in the first two NAB league games than I was prepared for which is nice.

It’s well documented that Andrews club coaches had to plead the academy to have another look at him. He wasn’t originally in the academy, until he was 17 or 18. So we really can’t claim Andrews as an academy product.

 

[Gibbo_88]

What puzzles me is that under the broad oversight of David Noble (who repeatedly mentioned the academy as a focus when he first started here) and more recently Danny Daly, as well as people like Henrikson and Littlejohn involved (people who Fagan hand picked for their teaching backgrounds, their own coaching experience and communication skills), how the academy has consistently under-performed. It may be that changes have been made over the past 2 years but there is time lag until results bear fruit. Nevertheless I find it puzzling why the academy stands out like a sore thumb when most other aspects of the football operation do well. Is it funding/resources?

We might not close the gap to the other academy clubs this year but you'd have to think if we've got the right people in place that over the next 2 years we would start to achieve similar outcomes to the other teams. There's so many factors that would come into play here and I literally know nothing other than what people say on this forum but we definitely seem off. I wonder how much each club spends on the academy program...I hope we're spending the least.

I'm sure Dom and Mike would be interested in finding out how the academy is going from the coaches perspective and I don't think it should be a problem to ask how we compare to the other clubs and what we're doing to not only match the other clubs but achieve better results than them.

If we're still getting the same result in a few years...what's the point. May as well have more coaches for the VFL side so we control what we can control.

 

[mattsmob]

It’s well documented that Andrews club coaches had to plead the academy to have another look at him. He wasn’t originally in the academy, until he was 17 or 18. So we really can’t claim Andrews as an academy product.

Yeah I haven’t been following the academies that long to know that situation, was Hipwood similar?
Also how long was Davies and Uwland in the Gold Coast academy? Did they have anything to do with them before the changes to their zone?

 

[KissKiss]

My memory of Hipwood was he was an average midfielder until he had a really late and massive growth spurt. Then being key forward height with midfielder skills made him shoot up the draft boards late

 

[briztoon]

Yeah I haven’t been following the academies that long to know that situation, was Hipwood similar?
Also how long was Davies and Uwland in the Gold Coast academy? Did they have anything to do with them before the changes to their zone?

Davies all the way through from memory. Bowes’ dad runs the Suns academy, and has been pumping kids out of NQ. The good ones get sent down to the GC for their top age year.

 

[briztoon]

PBC has an AFL academy, and mids can do AFL as a subject, that’s why they dominate the schools comp.

Pretty sure I’ve heard a couple of other GC schools have academies now as well.

 

[winged1]

We have some real good people in Brisbane QAFL clubland that could aid the academy in talent identification and coaching/selection. Im sure many would give up a bit of time in the pre season to look over the 3 Brisbane regions play intra-club matches, and aid in selection of the final squad. As well as reporting back to the academy of the progress of boys that dont make the final list.

QAFL Coaches do ring the academy, but if only to push for their clubs players. If they were to give up a bit of parochialism, and have a chance to look all the talent over in inta-academy games, im sure they would see stuff the school teachers fail to.. and we know they must be failing to.

At this point they have to try something. At present the academy are failing kids. The talent is there year by year, but obviously the academy are not identifying some of the talent available. Once they have 'passed through' the academy, the boys believe its over, they go out, nightclubs, girls etc and let themselves go. Life just takes over.

Look, i dont mean to harp on school teachers, but wow... 'those that can, do. Those that cant, teach'. The academy needs ex-AFL players round the group. Not bloody school teachers.

Adrian Fletcher, is ex AFL, so is the Mt Gravatt coach, so is the Grange coach. You have vast experience at Morningside and Aspley. These coaches should be invited to be part of the pre season selection process to look over all these boys in intra club games from late jan to early march. Real football men. Men with the scars. Men that can see a footballer from a pretender. Oftentimes, it takes a warrior to see a warrior.

You do know that Fletch ran the Tasmanian program and it was a clusterf@#$. And i like Fletch, but it didnt work. I am going to give you a detailed response tomorrow. Out of curiosity have you ever played or coached footy.

 

[Required]

You do know that Fletch ran the Tasmanian program and it was a clusterf@#$. And i like Fletch, but it didnt work. I am going to give you a detailed response tomorrow. Out of curiosity have you ever played or coached footy.

Im not suggesting the QAFL coaches run the academy. Im saying they should have opportunity during intra academy games to provide some input.

 

[Quigley]

We have some real good people in Brisbane QAFL clubland that could aid the academy in talent identification and coaching/selection. Im sure many would give up a bit of time in the pre season to look over the 3 Brisbane regions play intra-club matches, and aid in selection of the final squad. As well as reporting back to the academy of the progress of boys that dont make the final list.

QAFL Coaches do ring the academy, but if only to push for their clubs players. If they were to give up a bit of parochialism, and have a chance to look all the talent over in inta-academy games, im sure they would see stuff the school teachers fail to.. and we know they must be failing to.

At this point they have to try something. At present the academy are failing kids. The talent is there year by year, but obviously the academy are not identifying some of the talent available. Once they have 'passed through' the academy, the boys believe its over, they go out, nightclubs, girls etc and let themselves go. Life just takes over.

Look, i dont mean to harp on school teachers, but wow... 'those that can, do. Those that cant, teach'. The academy needs ex-AFL players round the group. Not bloody school teachers.

Adrian Fletcher, is ex AFL, so is the Mt Gravatt coach, so is the Grange coach. You have vast experience at Morningside and Aspley. These coaches should be invited to be part of the pre season selection process to look over all these boys in intra club games from late jan to early march. Real football men. Men with the scars. Men that can see a footballer from a pretender. Oftentimes, it takes a warrior to see a warrior.

You do realise that the QAFL programs are more responsible for the development of players than the academy? The failing of the academy is at least as much their failure as the Lions. I would not be pumping up their tyres.

I do agree though that it would be good for the Lions and the clubs to operate more collaboratively and if we could get some club guys to volunteer to help that would only be a benefit to the academy.

 

[M Malice]

It wasnt the club coaches that decided they could pick a final u18s squad and not have intra-academy games to look over the talent!! That was the school teachers at the academy. Real football people would not dream of selecting a squad without having trial games! Who would? One would have to go pretty far down the food chain before youd find a coaching group that would pick 35 players from a list of nearly 100 without even watching them play!! Without consideration, to the many boys who have put such importance on their potential 'draft year'.

They flogged these boys on the training paddock all off season, then didnt give then a chance to show their wares in some games.. before picking a final 35.... f*n bizarre!

Rank amateurs know there HAS to be trial matches before a group of such importance to so many kids is chosen! Just unforgivable. One cant emphasize how inept that is...

Re read my bullet points. Cant blame QAFL clubs for ANY of the 'keystone academy coaches' mind boggling bloopers!

.

Do the academy coaches and/or those that select the players who enter the academy go and watch competition games or do the clubs nominate players for the academy?

If not I would of thought that academy coaches/scouts sould be watching as many Div 1 games in the Under 12 to Under 16 age groups as they can even if it's a tip from a club.

In other words how is the talent identified?

 

[Gibbo_88]

It wasnt the club coaches that decided they could pick a final u18s squad and not have intra-academy games to look over the talent!! That was the school teachers at the academy. Real football people would not dream of selecting a squad without having trial games! Who would? One would have to go pretty far down the food chain before youd find a coaching group that would pick 35 players from a list of nearly 100 without even watching them play!! Without consideration, to the many boys who have put such importance on their potential 'draft year'.

They flogged these boys on the training paddock all off season, then didnt give then a chance to show their wares in some games.. before picking a final 35.... f*n bizarre!

Rank amateurs know there HAS to be trial matches before a group of such importance to so many kids is chosen! Just unforgivable. One cant emphasize how inept that is...

Re read my bullet points. Cant blame QAFL clubs for ANY of the 'keystone academy coaches' mind boggling bloopers!

.

You write as if having a school teacher background is a negative. Teaching is a pretty respected job, why is it a negative to have someone from a teaching and footy background? There are a number of people in footy at AFL level that have a teaching background.
Luckily Danny Daly isn't head of the academy or you'd have to speak down about bankers

 

[BRAB]

Thats a whole other subject. But just have a think about what the thought process is of leaving school, then wanting to go to teachers college.... only to go back to school. At 22 what life experiences have you actually got to teach? A script the establishment gives you..

It sucks that your kid wasn’t good enough to get into the academy but do you really have to denigrate school teachers to make your point?

 

[Gibbo_88]

Thats a whole other subject. But just have a think about what the thought process is of leaving school, then wanting to go to teachers college.... only to go back to school. At 22 what life experiences have you actually got to teach? A script the establishment gives you..

Amongst my family, friends and colleagues, teachers are highly respected for the job that they do. There's a lot of similarities to teaching a class to coaching a footy team. I suspect you've made your mind up about this whole topic.

 

[winged1]

You write as if having a school teacher background is a negative. Teaching is a pretty respected job, why is it a negative to have someone from a teaching and footy background? There are a number of people in footy at AFL level that have a teaching background.
Luckily Danny Daly isn't head of the academy or you'd have to speak down about bankers

Fagan has a teaching background, as does Craig Mcrae and the newly appointed Lauren Arnell

 

[winged1]

Do the academy coaches and/or those that select the players who enter the academy go and watch competition games or do the clubs nominate players for the academy?

If not I would of thought that academy coaches/scouts sould be watching as many Div 1 games in the Under 12 to Under 16 age groups as they can even if it's a tip from a club.

In other words how is the talent identified?

The clubs are sent a form asking for your 5 best, ranked in order, in certain age groups. The problem being if you have a kid who is 14 but playing 16s, he wont necessarily show up on the 14s list because he isnt in that team. They then extend an invitation to some of tge players depending on how your club is performing

 

[Quigley]

Being a teacher I see as an advantage in that they are actually taught how to teach kids rather than just having to wing it and pick it up on the fly. You obviously still need an understanding of the game and there are good teachers and bad, but all other things being equal being a qualified teacher in the academy environment would likely be a good thing imo.

 

[nWo]

Reading this thread with interest. My son just participated in the Level 2 games and was not lucky enough to be picked at the next level. He received some excellent advice from regional manager Scott Pyle and feedback on his strengths and growth areas. I didn’t necessarily agree with all of the kids who were choosen to go to the next stage of the level 2 program but I’m sure the selectors have their reasons. They are put into these roles by people who are a lot smarter than me in regards to footy.

There is a lot of negativity here and some of it comes across as unconstructive and not from a balanced position. How awesome was it to see Mitch Howson named in the NAB team of the week for his 4 goal performance last weekend. Not sure if it’s an offical thing but still a good accomplishment.

2022 NAB League Boys Team of the Week: Round 2

Sandringham, Dandenong, and Eastern each have three representatives in our NAB League Team of the Week for Round 2, after their big wins.

central.rookieme.com

 

[rusty08]

Reading this thread with interest. My son just participated in the Level 2 games and was not lucky enough to be picked at the next level. He received some excellent advice from regional manager Scott Pyle and feedback on his strengths and growth areas. I didn’t necessarily agree with all of the kids who were choosen to go to the next stage of the level 2 program but I’m sure the selectors have their reasons. They are put into these roles by people who are a lot smarter than me in regards to footy.

There is a lot of negativity here and some of it comes across as unconstructive and not from a balanced position. How awesome was it to see Mitch Howson named in the NAB team of the week for his 4 goal performance last weekend. Not sure if it’s an offical thing but still a good accomplishment.

2022 NAB League Boys Team of the Week: Round 2

Sandringham, Dandenong, and Eastern each have three representatives in our NAB League Team of the Week for Round 2, after their big wins.

central.rookieme.com

Watched him 1st hand on Sunday. Played bloody well.

 

[NeverEddie]

Look, i dont mean to harp on school teachers, but wow... 'those that can, do. Those that cant, teach'. The academy needs ex-AFL players round the group. Not bloody school teachers.

Couldn't agree more

 

[NeverEddie]

The clubs are sent a form asking for your 5 best, ranked in order, in certain age groups. The problem being if you have a kid who is 14 but playing 16s, he wont necessarily show up on the 14s list because he isnt in that team. They then extend an invitation to some of tge players depending on how your club is performing

Agree, this is how it is done. And, one of the issues here is the "depending on how your club is performing" bit. This actually does distill down to players from club X, Y and Z being favored over players from Club A, B and C. And I have had this first hand, the assumption is, if you were any good, you will have left your crap club and moved to ?? . . .Morningside.

in 2022 Morningside will be fielding 3 x U16 teams, 4 x U14 teams and 3 x U12 teams while many junior clubs struggle to field a team or two. Soon the junior comp will just be Game1 - Morningside Orange vs Morningside Purple; Game 2 - Morningside Beige vs Morningside Off White etc. Maroochydore has basically concentrated all the junior talent at sunny coast. The academy is also contributing to this wrecking of the junior comp.

 

[M Malice]

Agree, this is how it is done. And, one of the issues here is the "depending on how your club is performing" bit. This actually does distill down to players from club X, Y and Z being favored over players from Club A, B and C. And I have had this first hand, the assumption is, if you were any good, you will have left your crap club and moved to ?? . . .Morningside.

in 2022 Morningside will be fielding 3 x U16 teams, 4 x U14 teams and 3 x U12 teams while many junior clubs struggle to field a team or two. Soon the junior comp will just be Game1 - Morningside Orange vs Morningside Purple; Game 2 - Morningside Beige vs Morningside Off White etc. Maroochydore has basically concentrated all the junior talent at sunny coast. The academy is also contributing to this wrecking of the junior comp.

100% for all of that but particularly the bolded as I have seen it first hand.

I've mentioned before that my grandson will be playing Under 14 Division 1 for a "lesser" club this season against the likes of Maroochydore, Morningside, Aspley as well as a few Gold Coast clubs, there is a boy in his team who is very good and the so called big clubs have tried to poach him, he has knocked them back as he wants to play with his mates. IMO should definitely be in the academy... he is not.

 

[NeverEddie]

There is a fear of speaking out. A reason why few ever do

As a parent, I agree with this. And what does this say about the people running the academy? . . . . that they have VERY small minds. Also, to those insinuating that the opinions of parents should somehow be discounted (as clearly all parents just think their child is the next Michael Voss!) . . .that is pretty insulting. We are actually the keenest of observers and have significant inside knowledge of what goes on on at ground level there. The dot points listed by "Required" in an earlier post are spot on and his frustrations are completely understandable . . .there is that stuff and many more head shaking things that go on.

I've said this before, academy kids are not all out there prancing around in academy gear thinking that they are the next Michael Voss and fully expecting to be drafted. The majority are just talented kids (they would not be there if they had 100% of nothing) who are hoping to become better for being part of the academy. And continuing on to play QAFL would be great.

Winged1 - you have obviously been involved in talent squads in some capacity. Is it too much to ask that, if a player is deemed good enough to make these sorts of squads (ac/met/qld etc), they then at least be given proper opportunities in actual matches and treated fairly? (the same sort of BS that we are hearing about with ac, also happens at met level and at other rep levels, with some players being treated as lesser beings while others are held up on a pedestal) If you had a kid, would you not expect them to be given equal opportunity and to have an environment that increases their confidence rather than trashing it? Parents do actually understand that players will ultimately be cut and that only a few will be drafted . . .we are not idiots. But when they are cut without having being given a fair go or having been ignored totally etc, that is pretty hard to cop.