Academy Watch

[whatboutbob]

Article in the Courier Mail today about Cain Tickner

...with thanks to Kate Stevens from the Lions for the scan.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Gotta say Tickner is one I've got high hopes for...

 

[Quigley]

I have been keeping an eye on Tickner for a while and good to hear he is well thought of. 85kgs as a 15 year old is massive for an athlete and the whole playing in the midfield thing I am sure Hadley would love. He likes his KPs with midfield skills. I wouldn't mind him dominating a bit more at KP in the U16s but hopefully that will come as he develops.

 

[thoselionslads]

I always try and reserve judgement on young key position players as it is easy to get excited - especially those that are significantly taller and stronger than their peers. Whilst Tickner does fit into this category, it's hard not to like what he does. I've been more impressed with his athletic and midfield traits more so than his ability to take a contested mark and kick bags. I hold high hopes for Cain to continue his development.

 

[irel]

If he continues to develop at a good rate it may mean using a first rounder to get him on the list.

 

[thoselionslads]

​

If he continues to develop at a good rate it may mean using a first rounder to get him on the list.

Let's hope our first rounder is in the teen's by then!

 

[Quigley]

Lets hope we have 3 or 4 picks who warrant first round bids that year.

 

[HereIam86]

Brian Coleman-Broome will be in next years draft and he is from Brisbane so does that mean the Lions can take him as a QLD zone selection or do the Gold Coast get him a QLD zone selesction?

 

[irel]

Brian Coleman-Broome will be in next years draft and he is from Brisbane so does that mean the Lions can take him as a QLD zone selection or do the Gold Coast get him a QLD zone selesction?

Nope.

Only if he already is in the Brisbane Lions' academy program.

 

[thoselionslads]

Brian Coleman-Broome will be in next years draft and he is from Brisbane so does that mean the Lions can take him as a QLD zone selection or do the Gold Coast get him a QLD zone selesction?

Effectively, 2013 is the first year we can take academy players.

Unfortunately we may miss some handy QLD talent in 2012. Brian is certainly one of those.

 

[Pancho Gonzales]

I cast my mind back a few years when some powerhouse clubs were bleating about our extra salary cap allowance that was allocated to fight the 'go home' factor. Eventually those clubs won out and we lost that allowance.

How many guns will come through the academy before the complaints start rolling in?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Yep, only a matter of time until Eddie starts cracking the sads, short sighted oaf that he is.

Every club potentially benefits from the four academies as they provide a pathway to bring in athletes from other sporting backgrounds and increase the overall depth of the AFL talent pool. Won't stop the Big 4 Victorian mafia from throwing a tanty at some stage.

 

[Quigley]

The 2013 Qld side should be pretty good talent wise and with some AFL level coaching they could really make a run at a couple of the Div 1 sides. If that happens it could hit the fan real early.

The one thing though is that we don't get the kids for free. There is the bidding system the same as the father son bids so we have to pay close to fair value for the kids we want to keep.

 

[Quigley]

Anyone going along? It would be great if we had a few go along and give some thoughts on the young guys coming through. Maybe a few photos.


A squad of U17 Hyundai Lions Academy members will go up against the ‘Flying Boomerangs’ U16 Indigenous team in a pre-Christmas showdown this Friday 9 December from 7pm at Giffin Park, Coorparoo.

http://www.lions.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5085/newsid/126976/default.aspx

 

[footymaad]

Anyone going along? It would be great if we had a few go along and give some thoughts on the young guys coming through. Maybe a few photos.


A squad of U17 Hyundai Lions Academy members will go up against the ‘Flying Boomerangs’ U16 Indigenous team in a pre-Christmas showdown this Friday 9 December from 7pm at Giffin Park, Coorparoo.

http://www.lions.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5085/newsid/126976/default.aspx

Worth a look, but be aware that the best of the 17 year old academy players ( i think they are refering to those turning 17 next year, the oldest group in the academy currently) probably won't be playing, as they are involved in preseason training with the Brisbane under 18 squad, competing for a place in the Qld under 18 team for next years championships. So the team is mainly the top age boys in the academy who didn't make the under 18 training squad. (unless they have to call on some to get sufficient numbers)

 

[thoselionslads]

Worth a look, but be aware that the best of the 17 year old academy players ( i think they are refering to those turning 17 next year, the oldest group in the academy currently) probably won't be playing, as they are involved in preseason training with the Brisbane under 18 squad, competing for a place in the Qld under 18 team for next years championships. So the team is mainly the top age boys in the academy who didn't make the under 18 training squad. (unless they have to call on some to get sufficient numbers)

Yeah that's right.

Effectively, our best academy players will be training with their regional squad in preperation for the U18 QLD side.

 

[POBT]

The one thing though is that we don't get the kids for free. There is the bidding system the same as the father son bids so we have to pay close to fair value for the kids we want to keep.

One advantage that we may have is if there are two or more players rated around the same. For example, if there are two players who are the subject of first round bids from other clubs, then, as I understand it, we would need to match it with our first and second round selections (I believe this happened with Wallis and Liberatore for the Dogs).

 

[Quigley]

Correct and really teams really only bid on first rounders. Others who might be a third rounder in a normal draft rarely get bids so you will get them with the last pick most often or you could let them slip through to the rookie draft and get a real bargain.

 

[BigCat2]

As I understand it, the 4 academies have been set up by the 4 clubs as a direct pathway for Qld and NSW youngsters to enter AFL. In a few years, most youngsters, apart from maybe a few late converters, will have gone through the Academy program prior to becoming draft eligible.

The 4 clubs can then gain access to picking up kids from the 4 respective academies, provided they put in a suitable draft pick as bid, similar to father/son bidding.

Question: does that mean the other AFL clubs will in future pretty much be denied access to drafting AFL-quality youngsters from Qld and NSW?

I can see the benefits in having the academies
- allows more kids to stay in their home states
- the direct pathway will develop more kids into AFL quality athletes from these non-traditional AFL states, hence improving the overall talent pool

But surely other clubs will feel they're missing out? Did they all agree to this arrangement also?

Also the F/S bidding system is not completely fair either, it just somewhat resembles market value. For example, Tom Mitchell this year was worth a lot more than pick 21. Can't see Essendon and Collingwood being too happy if we picked up 3 first round prospects in 1 year by spending our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. Yes this has happened recently with Bulldogs and Wallis-Liberatore, but F/S occurring in the same year is uncommon. Having multiple draftable kids from the same academy year won't be.

 

[Gibbo_88]

As I understand it, the 4 academies have been set up by the 4 clubs as a direct pathway for Qld and NSW youngsters to enter AFL. In a few years, most youngsters, apart from maybe a few late converters, will have gone through the Academy program prior to becoming draft eligible.

The 4 clubs can then gain access to picking up kids from the 4 respective academies, provided they put in a suitable draft pick as bid, similar to father/son bidding.

Question: does that mean the other AFL clubs will in future pretty much be denied access to drafting AFL-quality youngsters from Qld and NSW?

I can see the benefits in having the academies
- allows more kids to stay in their home states
- the direct pathway will develop more kids into AFL quality athletes from these non-traditional AFL states, hence improving the overall talent pool

But surely other clubs will feel they're missing out? Did they all agree to this arrangement also?

Also the F/S bidding system is not completely fair either, it just somewhat resembles market value. For example, Tom Mitchell this year was worth a lot more than pick 21. Can't see Essendon and Collingwood being too happy if we picked up 3 first round prospects in 1 year by spending our 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. Yes this has happened recently with Bulldogs and Wallis-Liberatore, but F/S occurring in the same year is uncommon. Having multiple draftable kids from the same academy year won't be.

All it will take is a few players to come through the academy and Eddie and a few other presidents will complain and no more academy. I just hope we get a few top players out of it before that happens.

 

[BigCat2]

Yeah, that's my worry also. Like how they first reduced the zone selection radius in 2000 (so made Nick Riewoldt ineligible to be picked up as Qld zone selection), then abolishing it altogether, and of course the salary cap situation.

I don't think they can just get rid of the academy like that though. The academies have been set up to allow growth of the sport and training of young athletes, and I imagine the AFL will be keen for that to continue.

Might be a case of limits put on how many academy players can be drafted per year, for example. Could be that you can only nominate 1 player that year, and the rest are fair game.

 

[Quigley]

I think the academies were agreed to because they know the eastern teams are going to suffer most when free agency comes in. Having the academies allows the four teams to build a team with more home grown talent that is likely not to bolt south when the free agency dollars are waived at them.

We get some benefit from the academies to offset the impact of free agency. If the advantage gets too much I think the number of picks each year could be reduced but I don't see them doing away with them all together in the medium term.

 

[Martins49]

Hi, all.
New to Big Footy & just found this thread.
Going back to the Academy guys turning 17 this year, has anyone got a comment on any of the non U18 Scorpion Academy guys, specifically those who have a bit of size about them.
Namely H Egerton, B Forbes, L High, M Uebergang, N Jackson, M Joseph, T Hughes?
All these kids are 187cm plus, & have developed at varying rates over the last couple of years.
Does the Academy just retain those kids who have made the Scorpions squad, or hang on to a couple of extras who have potential, but for whatever reason didnt get U18 preselection?
Depends on how many 17 year olds we want to continue to work with going into their draft year 2013?
Do we cut them loose, or seeing as though we've put this much work into them, see them through to draft 2013, as the first group available under this process?

 

[Quigley]

I doubt we would cut them lose just because they didn't make the Scorpions this year as bottom aged players. We might if they were not developing as we expected but if they are coming along as expected but have a a couple of top aged guys ahead of them in their position I think they will probably be fine.

As far as how many 17 year olds we want to carry I could not tell you. The light often goes on for kids in their draft year and they come from nowhere. Personally I would hang onto them and see what happens if we have already put a fair bit of time into them.

 

[Martins49]

I guess it's true that at 16/17 years of age, a year's a long time in footy, especially as you say often the whole mental thing doesnt click until it comes to the crunch. The nature of young minds being asked to apply more mature attitudes towards their application & endeavour etc. This would especially be true for those kids who've always been bigger & stronger than their peers & have 'cruised' throught their junior footy.
I agree that we should continue to work with as many as we can, as long as our resources allow it, & as long as the kids continue to show improvement in terms of their football, physical capabilities & testing, and their mental attitude towards the program.
Anyway, I see the Academy programs as a useful tool, not only for the 4 clubs involved at the moment, but for the betterment of the whole game.
Its long been documented that AFL coaches selecting teenagers to their lists have been disappointed in the gaps between where the kids are at coming out of the best junior ranks, & what is required at AFL level.
In addition to identifying homegrown players for the clubs, the Academy program should go some way towards enabling the new recruits to have a better idea of whats required & therefore bridge that gap a bit more. This would then ultimately reduce the amount of time & effort required to get the younger guys consistently contributing to the success of our team.