Opinion Acceptance.

[Thewlis Dish]

He probably demands perfection, but he doesn't create consequences if it's not achieved.

 

[Contra Mundum]

I don't think that anybody wants us to get done next week; but if we play in the same manner that we did yesterday, it's what will happen.

A lot of supporters believe that we're incapable of becoming a serious threat for a premiership, as things stand. We want the club to win premierships, and be feared by other clubs. Some things have to change, but given how complacent everyone appears to be, we ask what will need to happen to shake the club up and put us back on track.

We were more feared during the Laidley era with far less talent than now - we were shinboners then not down hill
Pay cheque recievers

 

[True North]

We are Richmond.

There is no greater insult.

 

[Only Forwards]

Teams that lose to crap teams just as capable as they beat the best are not top 4 quality.

Indeed.

But I honestly do not thing it needs to be how it is currently.

We have the capability. I really don't know WTF is wrong.

 

[Only Forwards]

We are Richmond.

There is no greater insult.

It sickens me.

 

[Robertsonroo]

Ken Hinckley, "I am pretty demanding I want perfection".... Shame our coach doesn't think like ken. Seems his happy with ok.

99% of us have never coached at the highest level, but most of us are 'amateur' coaches. I watched Brisbane players instructed to run to the boundary and call for the ball to be passed. It worked and for the next HOUR I watched our players adopt a re-active position. Not ONCE during that hour did North players swamp the Lions so that they could not play ' mark and pass along the line'. Not ONCE did we position a loose man to change the flow. Not ONCE did I see any coach-driven instructions. So I watched helplessly as we went from 20 points up to 30 points down without us changing the flow of the game.
I won't mention the fact that 99% of coaches (professional or amateur) would tell their players to 'kick the ball' in wet conditions, not handball in circles with a slippery ball. ALL of my coaches would say 'get in front on a wet day because the ball will drop short' but what would they know? It's not the North Melbourne way of playing!

 

[utility]

We are Richmond.

There is no greater insult.

I had that same thought today. Not happy.

 

[DarwinRoo]

We are not Richmond. We are the North Melbourne Football Club.

We are sitting 7th on the ladder and we haven't had a week where our best 22 has been available due to injuries.

 

[mockingbeat]

We are not Richmond. We are the North Melbourne Football Club.

We are sitting 7th on the ladder and we haven't had a week where our best 22 has been available due to injuries.

Has that stopped Hawthorn? Or Fremantle? Injuries is a piss weak excuse.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

We are not Richmond. We are the North Melbourne Football Club.

We are sitting 7th on the ladder and we haven't had a week where our best 22 has been available due to injuries.

We should be top 6, not battling for 8th.

Brisbane were without Brown, Rich, Leuenberger, West, Staker plus any others I can't think of. Can't blame injuries for our pathetic display last night. I hate the fact we are now that inconsistent team that is brilliant one week, terrible the next. It's such a tease.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

I have accepted that Brad Scott, after 4 and a half ****ing years, still has no feel for making moves on matchday.

I have accepted that regardless of performance, there are a large group of players that will never get dropped. Ever.

I have accepted that our standards, whatever they are, are not high enough.

 

[Devington]

Has that stopped Hawthorn? Or Fremantle? Injuries is a piss weak excuse.

Hawthorn and Freo Played in the grand final last year. Both are well adapted to their gameplan. Both have been consistent for a large period of time. They both have, and have for some time, better off field resources than us. While we may want to hold ourselves to their standards, we aren't there yet.

Should the clubs standards be higher than what they seem to be? Yes.
Is our club the quality of Freo or Hawthorn? No.
For a team that isn't the quality of the top 4 teams of the comp, is it understandable that key injuries detrimentally affect us more? Yes.
Is it a shit situation? Yes.

I think most of us would agree with those 4 questions.
If that's the situation, is it the right and fair thing to hold the club to the same standard as the top 4? Personally, I don't think so.
I think the supporters generally do, and rightly so, hold the club to a higher standard than the club themselves do, but I think we need to lower them from the clouds a bit.

I'm not defending Scott, or the players or the club. I think all 3 parties have shortcomings that need to be addressed. But I don't think it helps if we tear all three groups apart and bay for blood.

 

[lockheed]

Hawthorn and Freo Played in the grand final last year. Both are well adapted to their gameplan. Both have been consistent for a large period of time. They both have, and have for some time, better off field resources than us. While we may want to hold ourselves to their standards, we aren't there yet.

Should the clubs standards be higher than what they seem to be? Yes.
Is our club the quality of Freo or Hawthorn? No.
For a team that isn't the quality of the top 4 teams of the comp, is it understandable that key injuries detrimentally affect us more? Yes.
Is it a shit situation? Yes.

I think most of us would agree with those 4 questions.
If that's the situation, is it the right and fair thing to hold the club to the same standard as the top 4? Personally, I don't think so.
I think the supporters generally do, and rightly so, hold the club to a higher standard than the club themselves do, but I think we need to lower them from the clouds a bit.

I'm not defending Scott, or the players or the club. I think all 3 parties have shortcomings that need to be addressed. But I don't think it helps if we tear all three groups apart and bay for blood.

Of course the injuries cruel us. But what I imagine rankles many people is that our team had by far the worse work ethic, and that Brisbane seemed to want the win much more than we did. To me it seemed like the players of one team owned their business, and those of the other team were clock watchers, trying to doing just enough to keep their jobs. It's not a good look, whether we field our best 22 or our worst 22.

 

[Devington]

Of course the injuries cruel us. But what I imagine rankles many people is that our team had by far the worse work ethic, and that Brisbane seemed to want the win much more than we did. To me it seemed like the players of one team owned their business, and those of the other team were clock watchers, trying to doing just enough to keep their jobs. It's not a good look, whether we field our best 22 or our worst 22.

Agreed, there's almost nothing worse than a perceived lack of willingness to win. I was focusing more on our season as a whole with the points i was trying to make before. Port, Sydney, Freo, Westcoke were games where I felt that it was our work ethic that got us the win, or quality of win. And last night it felt like it was our work ethic that lost it for us. It was a heartbreaking game to lose, even if some of us weren't particularly surprised given the way our season has been unfolding.

Brisbane wanted to win for Brown, for some respect, and they played one of their best games of the season. They have enough quality players still that when everything clicks for them, especially at home, they can be a real challenge. We wanted to win, but we didn't respect the opposition enough (Goldy's interview when he mentioned we would only need to "weather the storm" for 5-10 minutes, Brad supposedly content with the first quarters effort.) and it showed in the second quarter. We played better in the second half, after making some adjustments (which Scott only seems able to make, frustratingly, between quarters), and after a few players retracted the digit. Unfortunately not enough did, and because we were chasing them and the clock, while we were playing more intensely we made costly decision/skill errors that ultimately lost us the game, something that more experience (which arguably, we perhaps should already have) would have prevented.

That said, us chasing them wouldn't have been an issue if we were able to get a consistent effort from each of the 22, each week, regardless of where, when and who.

But, sadly, we do have an issue in that regard. And rightly or wrongly there are a fair few reasons/excuses for that issue.

 

[LT Smash]

I have accepted that Brad Scott, after 4 and a half ******* years, still has no feel for making moves on matchday.

As Ben Brown was struggling to have an impact in the second quarter, and as Brisbane had already activated the sub, it occurred to me that Ben Jacobs on at half time would be a good move. Now if only we had a recent experience where a half time sub activation of a midfield player for a tall forward working stupendously well to turn around a deficit by three quarter time.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

Hawthorn and Freo Played in the grand final last year. Both are well adapted to their gameplan. Both have been consistent for a large period of time. They both have, and have for some time, better off field resources than us. While we may want to hold ourselves to their standards, we aren't there yet.

Freo finished below us in 2009, the season before we appointed Scott.

 

[Mr Reliable]

As Ben Brown was struggling to have an impact in the second quarter, and as Brisbane had already activated the sub, it occurred to me that Ben Jacobs on at half time would be a good move. Now if only we had a recent experience where a half time sub activation of a midfield player for a tall forward working stupendously well to turn around a deficit by three quarter time.

Yes, but against Richmond we were getting pumped and when half time came, nothing ventured, nothing gained.....Oh, I see where you're coming from.

 

[Devington]

Freo finished below us in 2009, the season before we appointed Scott.

Things change in footy, week by week, year by year. We've been better than them, we've been worse than them. Right now, and for the last couple of years, we've been worse. They opted to go with a coach famous for nearly winning a flag, before leaving his club a husk, and they're taking the risk that this time he will deliver, and this time they'll be competitive still after their time in the sun.

We opted for as close to a ground up rebuild as you can get, investing in fresh players to build for a sustainable future, investing in a raw but promising coach to deliver that for us. We started further back than Freo in terms of off field support. We're still not at their level. But we are building. slower than we'd like, perhaps not as well as we'd like. But we have made significant improvements off field that will benefit us long term, and I'm in the camp that still thinks we have a decent chance of having a strong future on-field, even if we do need to adjust our approach.

I've said it in a few threads now, but the situation we find ourselves in atm is shitty. But that doesn't suddenly undo all the good work we have done, or preclude us from fixing any mistakes, and making additional improvements.

I also think it's right that a large portion of us are keen to discuss, and trade, our opinions on where the club stands. While I do feel it's a bit of a shame that some people think the be all and end all of fixing our problems is dropping half the team or outright sacking the coach, we are supporters of our club, and close to a man we want what's best for it. What that requires, is anyone's guess (and everyone, including myself is making guesses!), but I'd like to think that the club, ultimately, not only has a better idea as to the reasons for our predicaments than us, but they also have a better idea for their solutions than us.

But that does remain to be seen. And until the day where we've just won our 50th consecutive premiership, we should keep having these conversations on how to improve the club.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

We are not Richmond. We are the North Melbourne Football Club.

We are sitting 7th on the ladder and we haven't had a week where our best 22 has been available due to injuries.

Very rarely do you ever get your best 22 on the park.

Regardless of who is wearing our jumper wether it be best 22 or the last 22, when you put it on you should play with effort and desire week in week out. We haven't seen that for a long time and its bloody frustrating. Injuries are not an excuse for effort.

 

[Mr Reliable]

Things change in footy, week by week, year by year. We've been better than them, we've been worse than them. Right now, and for the last couple of years, we've been worse. They opted to go with a coach famous for nearly winning a flag, before leaving his club a husk, and they're taking the risk that this time he will deliver, and this time they'll be competitive still after their time in the sun.

We opted for as close to a ground up rebuild as you can get, investing in fresh players to build for a sustainable future, investing in a raw but promising coach to deliver that for us. We started further back than Freo in terms of off field support. We're still not at their level. But we are building. slower than we'd like, perhaps not as well as we'd like. But we have made significant improvements off field that will benefit us long term, and I'm in the camp that still thinks we have a decent chance of having a strong future on-field, even if we do need to adjust our approach.

I've said it in a few threads now, but the situation we find ourselves in atm is shitty. But that doesn't suddenly undo all the good work we have done, or preclude us from fixing any mistakes, and making additional improvements.

I also think it's right that a large portion of us are keen to discuss, and trade, our opinions on where the club stands. While I do feel it's a bit of a shame that some people think the be all and end all of fixing our problems is dropping half the team or outright sacking the coach, we are supporters of our club, and close to a man we want what's best for it. What that requires, is anyone's guess (and everyone, including myself is making guesses!), but I'd like to think that the club, ultimately, not only has a better idea as to the reasons for our predicaments than us, but they also have a better idea for their solutions than us.

But that does remain to be seen. And until the day where we've just won our 50th consecutive premiership, we should keep having these conversations on how to improve the club.

Everything sounds compellingly positive, but the bolded bit is what most of us are agonising over in this thread. Any thoughts on HOW the mistakes might be fixed, given our record of disappointment this year culminating in last night's disaster?

 

[Saintly31]

Ken Hinckley, "I am pretty demanding I want perfection".... Shame our coach doesn't think like ken. Seems his happy with ok.

Well Scott was a pretty ordinary player in an awesome team, so it is probably no great surprise he is happy with 'ok'.

Interesting how he worked very hard and was tough/accountable on the field due to lacking ability, yet as a team we are the exact opposite.

Who knows why though, can point fingers everywhere really.....

 

[Devington]

Everything sounds compellingly positive, but the bolded bit is what most of us are agonising over in this thread. Any thoughts on HOW the mistakes might be fixed, given our record of disappointment this year culminating in last night's disaster?

I think it's firstly important to remember while we've certainly had a record of disappointment this year, we've also had a duality of having a record of great success. Which in many ways makes this season even harder to bare.

We've all said it, the club has said it, the journos have said it. Our biggest issue is consistency, which I believe has a lot of contributing factors to it this year. Some we can theorize on how to address, and some there's not a whole lot we can do to fix it.

Under a new gameplan, with some new coaching faces, we had one of the hardest starting draws. If you're playing against the best teams every second week for several months, it's hard to really practise having the game under your control, which means it takes longer to master aforementioned gameplan. Unfortunately, the longer it takes to master, the more doubts that would creep in, with the supporters, players and coaches. Which just makes the situation even worse.

We've also had arguably our worst run with injuries in several years, striking down key best 22 players, as well as a lot of the 22-28. As well as not being able to field our best team consistently, it means that some of the players coming in, aren't our best quality backups. It also makes it harder to rest players, and I suspect in the eyes of the coaches, harder to justifying dropping players.

Injuries and the Draw are probably the 2 big factors that we simply can't control.

As I said though, there are some we can.

Selection. Not that many of us have been thrilled with some of the choices (read: absolutely bloody livid at times), and while some of that does come down to the availability of players, and players having form, and trying to build some consistency within the 22, I'm in the group that thinks we certainly could have handled it better. the club tends to have a rotating door policy for "almost" players, players who have shown they CAN play at AFL level (just not necessarily very well ), instead of trying to blood relatively untried players. I'd argue Black should have been dropped at some stage, and Daw/Wood/Brown, should have found themselves in earlier (or in Wood's case, at all). Basti/Adams should have been replaced at some stage, either as a rocket, or to regain form in the magoos, take your pick. While we CAN control this aspect, I don't think we have done so very well, though at least we've looked to be willing to try and make more changes recently. And hopefully that trend continues, and is a catalyst for positive change.

The Coaching group and their methods. While we aren't members of the inner sanctum, and hence have to take every report of what's going on behind closed doors with a grain of salt, I've turned the corner slightly and believe that Brad needs to change tact, and sooner rather than later. If he's not going to enact many changes from the coaches box other than at the breaks, I want to see him at ground level giving direct feedback/instructions. Failing that he could, oh I don't know, actually try and make some more significant changes during the quarters (#rant). I also think he needs to be more firm/passionate with the players, not to the extent of jumper punching them like some flogs, sorry, coaches, but at least getting in their face without any fear or favour.

Leadership. I don't think we have that big of an issue here in and of itself ATM, other than the fact that our leaders have oft-times been out of form(swallow coming back from injury, Jack having niggles and just playing badly, Drew trying to maim our other leaders and generally not being able to clunk em or kick em for half the year, Scooter being far down on form). This year though, when we have made a fightback it often has been our leaders (Spitta, JZ, Drew, and Harvey at the front of the queue), rightfully,leading the charge. But they do seem to struggle dragging their non leadership imbued team mates along with them, Which makes me suspect that the leadership group might in some ways be mimicking Brad's approach.

To address your question though, Mr Reliable, on how to fix our mistakes, unfortunately there isn't really much we, the supporters can do, other than be vocal that we think we can do better, and ensure the club knows that, and also by not simply digging the heals and looking for escape goats or so called easy fixes (sack scott he's shit, drop half the team). It's up to the club to fix the problems, and I suppose that any optimism I have comes from the fact that I believe the club, coaches, and players WANT to fix the problems, that many of the problems are fairly easy to identify (if hard to successfully address), and the fact that in theory, some of the issues we cant control should (and hopefully will) start to resolve themselves. Our draw does open up a bit more (even if we have butchered a lot of it so far), we should start getting players back from injury in the next few weeks (granted, we've been saying that for 3 months ) and every week we play, the club learns more about what they are and aren't doing right.

I'll conclude by saying while I am optimistic, I'm by no means certain we will fix our issues in season. I'm also not certain we will fix them in the off season (In Walsh We Trust). But that said the only things that ARE certain in life are death, taxes (unless you're really rich in Australia it seems) and Essendope* being scummy.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Interesting how he worked very hard and was tough/accountable on the field due to lacking ability, yet as a team we are the exact opposite.

Spot on mate. How many players do we have in our team that you can say this about, that they lack the talent but get everything out of themselves? Maybe Greenwood, possibly Gibson or Swallow.

I look at someone like Dale Morris. He doesn't have the anywhere near the talent of almost every player he plays on, but his never-say-die attitude and his unwavering competitiveness are the reasons he has had such a good career at the highest level. What I would give for 5 or 6 of his type in our team.

 

[archereleven]

Agreed, there's almost nothing worse than a perceived lack of willingness to win. I was focusing more on our season as a whole with the points i was trying to make before. Port, Sydney, Freo, Westcoke were games where I felt that it was our work ethic that got us the win, or quality of win. And last night it felt like it was our work ethic that lost it for us. It was a heartbreaking game to lose, even if some of us weren't particularly surprised given the way our season has been unfolding.

Brisbane wanted to win for Brown, for some respect, and they played one of their best games of the season. They have enough quality players still that when everything clicks for them, especially at home, they can be a real challenge. We wanted to win, but we didn't respect the opposition enough (Goldy's interview when he mentioned we would only need to "weather the storm" for 5-10 minutes, Brad supposedly content with the first quarters effort.) and it showed in the second quarter. We played better in the second half, after making some adjustments (which Scott only seems able to make, frustratingly, between quarters), and after a few players retracted the digit. Unfortunately not enough did, and because we were chasing them and the clock, while we were playing more intensely we made costly decision/skill errors that ultimately lost us the game, something that more experience (which arguably, we perhaps should already have) would have prevented.

That said, us chasing them wouldn't have been an issue if we were able to get a consistent effort from each of the 22, each week, regardless of where, when and who.

But, sadly, we do have an issue in that regard. And rightly or wrongly there are a fair few reasons/excuses for that issue.

The trouble is, all of our losses have had similar traits. Woeful intensity, woeful work rate and woeful disposal under pressure.

Talent for talent we should of beaten Brisbane by 6+ goals, but when a dozen players are waiting for everyone else to do the work you get a 40-120 marks disparity and a loss to go with it. Next week, when we get drilled by the Hawks and Adelaide beat GWS and move us out of the 8, the season starts verging on failure for mine. An easy run home might save us, and Brad, but a demolition like what we got at the hands of WC in an elimination final wont.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

If we don't win a final, Scott should be gone.