Business & Finance Accounting

[AG]

Summer vacationer programs are the best imo. Complete uni full time and get your foot in the door at a company during break. Obviously you lose some of your holiday but if I had my time again that's what I would do. Any form of corporate experience/contacts is unbelievable valuable.

 

[Caesar]

Sorry trigg but I can't see why anyone should do it part time unless they have to (money is the only reason I can see)

Doing this degree part time means 6 years at uni.
Assuming 2 people start their careers at the same time, a full time student could have completed their CA in the time the part time student graduates from university.

It's not that bad. In practice, nobody does a degree completely part time. I did 3 subjects a semester, and one over the Christmas break by correspondence, and finished my degree in 3.5 years. It's even quicker if for people like trigg who've already got one full year of uni under their belt.

By the time I left my firm, I had a couple of guys working for me who had finished school the year before I did and done uni fulltime. That's not because I'm especially smart or a high flier, it's just because you learn so much more on the job and the learning curve is so steep. Even when they finished their CA 12 months before me, I still had more than twice their experience.

Summer vacationer programs are the best imo. Complete uni full time and get your foot in the door at a company during break. Obviously you lose some of your holiday but if I had my time again that's what I would do. Any form of corporate experience/contacts is unbelievable valuable.

I'd endorse this. It's a great compromise if you're not too fussed about earning a living while you're studying. Way too few students make effective use of massive uni breaks to build their resume.

 

[yeah_nah]

It's not that bad. In practice, nobody does a degree completely part time. I did 3 subjects a semester, and one over the Christmas break by correspondence. I was finished my degree in 3.5 years.

What?
Are you trying to suggest that everybody does their degree the same way as you did?

A guy I work with is doing uni part time, he has already been there for 4 years and has 2 years to go. So I don't see how "in practice, nobody does a degree completely part time" when that is exactly what he's doing... He has a reason for doing it part time though, seeing as he's 28 and can't afford to not work as many hours as possible.

Also as far as I know, 3 units a semester is actually considered full time not part time.

 

[Caesar]

I don't know, I'm just speaking from my personal experience. Everybody at our firm did at least 5 subjects a year and usually 6 or 7, usually still working a full 38 hour week (our firm was particularly stingy and didn't give time off to attend lectures, you had to make up the hours if they weren't after 5). It's not that bad if you don't care about marks - during semester you just make sure you go to every tute and lecture, and do the assignments. Then you take a week off before exams, lock yourself in your house and cram, cram, cram.

Yeah 3 subjects is technically fulltime, but there's a big difference between 3 and 4. It has the added bonus of making you eligible for a concession card on public transport - 50% off my weekly $50 train card was very nice.

I know one guy who managed to do his degree in the bare 3 years, by taking 3 subjects a semester and 2 via summer school or correspondence over Christmas. But he was a freak who also lived at home with mum taking care of him and had no social life.

 

[yeah_nah]

Ok well I work about 18 hours a week when I'm at uni (assume thats 14 weeks per semester)
thats 18hours x 14 weeks x 2 semesters = 504 hours of work per year while at uni. so over 3 years of being at uni I would work 1008 hours
I work fulltime when not at uni, so thats 20 weeks x 38 hours = 760 hours per year while at uni.
So thats 1768 hours of work (experience) during my uni career.
I then have 3 years break on anybody doing a part time (proper part time) uni degree.
48 weeks x 38 hours x 3 years = 5472 hours
Bringing my total hours of working experience to a total of 6,232 for 6 years work. Qualifications are CA/CPA and a BComm

a part time student has 30 hour a week when at uni
so 30hours x 14weeks x 2semesters = 840 hours per year at uni
add the rest of the year in, 20weeks x 38hours = 4560
Bringing total hour of working experience to a total of 5,400 for 6 years of work. Qualifications are only a BComm

So at the end of the 6 years a full time student is ahead of a part time student (only doing 2 units per semester) in both qualifications and work experience.

Sorry to get all mathematical on you guys but this is the basis of my arguement

Obviously Caesar, your case is a bit different. Working 38 hours and doing 3 units + summer school must have been bloody hard work.

 

[Opportunity Cost]

I'll be doing summer school most years and the odd winter school along the way. Once I get closer to the end of my degree I'll do 3 subjects a semester as well, with one in my own time. After this year I would have finished 10 units, I aim to be finished the degree in a total of 4 and a half years. Before I got the job I was doing Business/Law so I'll probably even finish before I planned to originally.

And money isn't the only positive (even though I'll get close to 200k), you don't finish as a graduate. I will skip that whole wage bracket. So the people who graduated a year and a half before me will be still in a graduate program when I graduate.

If I was to go for a graduate job in another firm/area the 4.5 years experience would put me well above the crowd and could almost take my pick of the jobs.

Edit:
I didn't fully understand the way your job worked yeah_nah. Seems as though you have a good deal! I can't say I know of anybody in your position. I still would much prefer to be doing it the way I currently am than doing it full time.

 

[Caesar]

It wasn't that bad. I mean, it wasn't a holiday, but I wasn't exactly the party-hard type anyway. And when you're working fulltime you really are doing the bare minimum of uni work required to pass, because your career is the strong part of your resume. Since I graduated, I haven't had an employer ask to see my transcript.

18 hours a week while you're studying is pretty sweet. I would have taken that deal, although I think it probably works better in a commercial environment. It's a bit hard to manage clients if you're only working half the week.

 

[treefingers]

Is a Commerce degree at Melbourne looked upon higher then a Commerce degree at Monash? Also, how long does it take become a fully certified accountant? (after finishing high school)

 

[larkis]

If I did start working at an accounting firm - it would be in my third year (after this semester) so I would only have 8 or 9 units left. Stretch is out to three units a semester and I would only need to do an extra half a year - figured a year and a half of work makes up for an extra half semester of university easily.

The plan is tomorrow to look at all the resources given in this thread, collate some information, talk it over with my parents, talk to family members that are also accountants, friends that are also studying accounting and see what support there is from the university and then make a decision.

Thanks for all the information

 

[AG]

Anyone work in insolvency? If so what's it like?

 

[Caesar]

Had a mate who did it after he got his CA, after working in Audit for many years. He enjoyed aspects of the job - it's very hands-on, as an administrator you get to take over businesses with absolute power and are responsible for everything to do with its running, from payroll to strategic decisions. The liquidator aspect is another matter - and a LOT of administrations end in liquidations. He couldn't handle watching businesses go broke day after day and being the one responsible for telling people they were losing their jobs and entitlements.

He lasted two years, then had to quit before he ended up depressed. He found it good background for taking over his family's business (which was always the ultimate goal), but hated the actual environment. Said that there was a strong cowboy culture - guys who get off on the power trip of shutting down businesses. Also, administrators and liquidators charge a lot of money and always get the first cut, even before employee entitlements. There's few professions that are more hated - even their own clients see them as parasites.

That said, it's a necessary job and if you've got a thick skin and a mind for it I imagine the times when you turn a business around and save people's livelihoods are extremely satisfying.

 

[TAYLOR!]

I am kind of interested in insolvency. Although I am finding it hard to find many firms in perth which do it. I have an interview on wednesday for an auditing position but perhaps I could get into it after that, like your friend.

Also any tips on what to say in an accounting interview? I don't think I give off very good impressions in interviews as I get pretty nervous...

 

[Leslie_Chow]

Also any tips on what to say in an accounting interview? I don't think I give off very good impressions in interviews as I get pretty nervous...

hey mate I recently had an interview for Vacation work. They didnt ask many questions about Accounting itself, though they will probably ask why your interested in Accounting and what you plan on doing in the near future. If its a bigger company, do your research. See if you can find out which program they take on (Cpa vs Ca). They will ask you quite a few behavioural questions, google them and try to think of an answer for a few of those. Thats definitely the hardest part of the interview, simply because some questions you probably wont have an answer for.
everyone gets nervous, hopefully your interviewer is good from the start so you can get into relaxed mode.

 

[AG]

Thanks caeser.

tbh you can practice for interviews all you like but it just comes down to someone liking you rather than impressing them with great answers imo. My best interviews are normally when someone has a similar interest because it settles the nerves. I've had interviews where the guy starts off talking about football or golf and I'm relaxed straight away. You'll know in the first 30 seconds whether it will be a good interview.

I'm assuming you are looking for an entry level role so just be honest and don't beat yourself up when you think you didn't perform well. I struggle with nerves as well because I'm more of an introverted personality but you'll find you click with certain people.

Your resume can be crucial for the interviewer to find something to talk about. Often you get advice saying don't list interests or only include relevant information. I was told by someone to take my school education off my resume because I've got a uni degree so they'll know I've graduated from school. On the other hand I was told to leave it on because it's something that might find common ground with the interviewer. I went to Wesley College and one of my interviews was with someone who went to Scotch College so we ended up talking about APS football before he interviewed me. Just little things like that can help.

Go with your head though, you are going to get advice from various sources as you look for a job and it's often conflicting.

 

[Caesar]

I am kind of interested in insolvency. Although I am finding it hard to find many firms in perth which do it. I have an interview on wednesday for an auditing position but perhaps I could get into it after that, like your friend.

Actually, because of the big responsibility in running businesses under administration, very few people at all actually start out in insolvency - in fact, most are ex-auditors.

If you are looking at insolvency, there's a bit of caveat emptor with smaller firms. Businesses in administration are incredibly vulnerable, and it's not unheard of to have less reputable firms ripping them off. Big, national firms with good reputations (BRI Ferrier, Ferrier Hodgeson, McGrath Nichol, etc.) are the best bet.

Also any tips on what to say in an accounting interview? I don't think I give off very good impressions in interviews as I get pretty nervous...

The other advice is all great. The only thing I'd add is that with public accounting is all about personal relationships. The stereotype of accountants as antisocial nerds just doesn't apply. All things considered, the technical work is fairly simple. The way you interact with your interviewer tells them how you're going to interact with their clients, and how you present to clients is how the firm presents. 9 times out of 10, the decision of a client to stay or leave a firm is based not on the size of their bill, but on how much he feels the firm cares about him and his business.

As a manager, if I met a guy of relatively average intelligence who is fantastic with people I was more likely to hire him over someone who is smarter but displays poor social skills. I can always teach someone how to crunch numbers.

 

[TAYLOR!]

Thanks for the tips! Its apparently a panel interview which makes me a bit more nervous but I hope I do ok. I will need a job next year after I've finnished uni

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

I work for a top tier firm, recent grad completed Commerce/Law at Melbourne University. Making $200,000 and loving life, I get to stare at numbers all day. I trade stocks and I have a 12 inch penis (soft). It can get boring at times but the money is good and soon I want to work in Insolvancy because I enjoy working in failed businesses, it makes me feel great and I get paid a ****load to distribute all the leftovers of the company. I even get time to do lines of cocaine after my 12 hour workday with the boys. All my mates that did my course are doing the exact same thing as me, rolling in the big bucks baby. Long live cocaine, cash money and top tier firms.

 

[raskolnikov]

Accounting is as boring as bat shit. I started it at uni because my mum and dad wanted me to go into it. After one term I just couldn't take it anymore it was so boring so I transferred to what I had always wanted to do - a double major in Literature and Music. Haven't looked back. As a teacher I probably don't make as much money as I could in accounting but I'd rather enjoy what I'm doing than make a bit more money and want to slash my wrists. I read somewhere that accountants have the highest suicide rate of all the professions.

 

[Caesar]

Accounting in the real world is very different to accounting at university. I know very few people who've actually enjoyed studying the subject.

Professions in general have high suicide rates. I am not sure if accountants are top, but accountants, doctors, lawyers, etc. are all usually close to the top of the list due to the high degree of pressure, responsibility and long hours. It was one of the main reasons that my stay in public practice was always intended to be finite.

 

[AG]

Accounting is as boring as bat shit. I started it at uni because my mum and dad wanted me to go into it. After one term I just couldn't take it anymore it was so boring so I transferred to what I had always wanted to do - a double major in Literature and Music. Haven't looked back.

That's why you hated it and probably why plenty of people hate it, they get pushed into it. That's not just accounting though, that's a lot of careers.

 

[r dub 19]

Does anyone know the rate or have an annuity table for a interest rate of 8% for 60 periods?

 

[TAYLOR!]

So the interview didn't go so well... They started asking me actual accounting questions i.e. What journal entries would be required to write off accounts receivable, a bad debt, how would you increase the allowance for bad debts?? etc etc.

Anyway, I should know all this stuff but I haven't actually been doing financial accounting for 6 months, I'm only doing one accountng unit this semester and it's more to do with analysing financial statements and stock price etc.

They had to keep prompting me so I don't think I will get the job. In fact if I do get the job I think I will judge them...

The sad thing is I was doing alot better than normal, being friendly and not too nervous etc... But the other interviews I have been too asked no actual practical accounting questions so for my next one I guess I'll just have to study a bit more...

 

[AG]

At least you were more confident which is a good sign. There will come a time when you just click with confidence after so many interviews.
I had a job interview to be a fund accountant and I got asked all these questions about financial services I didn't know the answers to. I didn't get the job but I made the second round of interviews so it can't be too important.

 

[Caesar]

Don't worry. I had my first interview when I just finished high school, and when they asked I couldn't explain the difference between a debit and a credit. They still hired me.

 

[r dub 19]

Might switch to accounting or finance.