Adam Goodes declines Hall of Fame invitation

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Scotland said:
I couldn't give a sh*t what 'side of history' the perpetually outraged place me on, particularly given I didn't even attend any of the games Goodes was booed in. Nor am I saying that booing Goodes is/was a good idea.



So they weren't booing him for the colour of his skin, then. They were booing him for something he did. So if Goodes calls out racism, and you react to how he chooses to do that, you are racist? That seems like a neat little bow.



Yeah but he's African American.

He has been outspoken on social issues in the US for many years, and that's his prerogative.

If you apply the simplistic logic many apply to Goodes then if you criticise LeBron then you are racist.
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No I've never booed LeBron till he has wanted to leave the game.
Same as you never booed Goodes.
Dunno why I would, but if I managed to go to an NBA game and booed LeBron cause I thought he was a sook for calling out some racial issue as loud as I could every single time he got the ball, then hopped on social media and went on about how Bolt etc are right and he needs to harden up?
Yeah I would think I was a bit racist.
Personally I didn't like how supportive of the oppression of the Hong Kong people LeBron was. Maybe I'm racist for that? I dunno
But I still wouldn't boo him for it TBH, would be just grateful to see him play.
 
RUNVS said:
This thread is going to be a sh*t show.

In saying that though I don't blame Goodes for how he feels. How he was treated in those final few years was deplorable. Every time he touched the ball he was reminded at how many people hate him just for the colour of his skin. That would wear anyone down.
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He played for 16 years, so nobody booed him for 14 years then all of a sudden hordes of racists all of a sudden appeared and booed him for the last 2 years because of the colour of his skin? I think that is a bit of a straw man.

I didn't really see anything negative about his Australia Day speech and claims that was the reason why people booed him doesn't sit well with me, because I think his sentiments have been expressed by other indigenous players and a lot of indigenous players were exposed to very harsh racism before his time.

I think there were a lot of little things that occurred the last couple of years, each in isolation wouldn't have resulted in the same result but I think the tipping point was when the media kicked up a storm saying you can boo whomever you like but you can't boo this one person, regardless of the context, regardless what he does on-field, if you do then you are a racist and I think it triggered a far greater reaction from people who wanted to give the middle finger to the establishment in terms of where they get off judging people what they think and feel.

Because towards the end the booing became nonsensical, it was an era when we wouldn't even tolerate racist comments in the crowd.

I always loved watching Goodes play, he was one of my favourite players outside of my own club, he was a magical player. It is sad that it panned out the way that it did and I never went to games and booed anyone, even though I don't think all the booing was motivated by racism, I was disappointed that people didn't stop when he felt that it was racist. It is a shame his career ended in the manner that it did.

However, he has made his choice. I think everyone should just leave him alone to live out his life however he wishes, and I think the AFL and the media should leave him alone as well but they can't resist dragging him back in because the establishment loves nothing else than to use someone as pawn to feel good about themselves that they are superior than the rest of the peons, they wont give up this gift-horse to keep dragging him back into the spotlight regardless if it is against his wishes, just so he can be used as a tool for their own agenda.

The one thing the establishment hated far worse than the treatment that Adam Goodes suffered, was that the average punter told the media, and establishment at large, to get ****ed.

How many more times are we going to drag poor Goodsey back into this s**t show?
 

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Scotland said:
I couldn't give a sh*t what 'side of history' the perpetually outraged place me on, particularly given I didn't even attend any of the games Goodes was booed in. Nor am I saying that booing Goodes is/was a good idea.



So they weren't booing him for the colour of his skin, then. They were booing him for something he did. So if Goodes calls out racism, and you react to how he chooses to do that, you are racist? That seems like a neat little bow.



Yeah but he's African American.

He has been outspoken on social issues in the US for many years, and that's his prerogative.

If you apply the simplistic logic many apply to Goodes then if you criticise LeBron then you are racist.
Click to expand...

An Aboriginal man sticking up for himself seems like a major issue for you.. why ?????
 
Pfft booing. Players are copping death threats these days. Even the WAGs!

Adam should have accepted his HOF induction and used it as a platform to speak out against social media harassment, racism, and mental health.

Instead, he's dug his heels in and sooked it up again.
 
EasternTiger said:
Pfft booing. Players are copping death threats these days. Even the WAGs!

Adam should have accepted his HOF induction and used it as a platform to speak out against social media harassment, racism, and mental health.

Instead, he's dug his heels in and sooked it up again.
Click to expand...
Yep your right that makes racism ok then. Bright one we got here
 
waitwhat said:
So because Goodes called out racism and you didnt like the way he did it hes a dog ? But Eddies cool cos he did it differently ?
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Spazz Cat said:
Yep one player. Who still has got a banana thrown at him and still gets abused by someone in the crowd a couple of times a year.
If he did a spear chucking thing or pointed out someone in the crowd I reckon I could guarantee he wouldn't be liked as much.
Click to expand...
Maddo11 said:
Oh okay, so it's because he slid twice in 2012 and then in 2014 he tried to kick a ball off the ground in a sport called ... *checks notes* foot ball? That can't be right
Click to expand...
The fact is Australia is a racist country and Australian football has many racists in it.
Only a fool would think otherwise
 
Scotland said:
This is such a nothing circular argument.

Where are the tens of thousands of spectators who rigorously and fastidiously did this to all other indigenous players? Last I checked there are around 100 indigenous players in the AFL, a handful of Africans who are about as dark skinned as you can get, two Muslims, at least one Jew... there are plenty of targets for whatever your prejudice might be.

If everyone in the crowd at say WC vs Sydney in 2015 (we are always an easy target) booing Goodes was racist, why weren't they booing any of the 3 other indigenous players on the field? Or Naitanui, he looks pretty different to most people in WA. Why haven't they booed any indigenous players since? Is it selective racism? If there a 100 people from a particular group and I don't like 1 or 2 of them is that really reflective of my opinion towards that group?

Here's a hypothetical. Gold Coast have had a number of players leave in varying circumstances. I'm not a Gold Coast fan so I don't know who the fans like and dislike. If they boo Jaeger O'Meara for how he left, that's presumably OK. Tom Lynch, ditto. How about Steven May, or Jack Martin? If they don't boo Steven May because he was willing to move under contract and secure the club good compensation but they boo Jack Martin for walking to the PSD are they racist?

White people boo LeBron James. Off the top of my head there are only two white players on his team and on average most rosters are 70% African American players. Is it racist to boo him?
Click to expand...
And this is such a simplistic argument.

No one wants to think of themselves as racist, so if an Indigenous player responds to a blatant form of racism that can not be defended (throwing a banana at Betts for example), the majority will back them in. Keep your head down most of the time, only respond to egregious examples and you’ll be fine.

What Goodes did was forcefully point out the racism he cops every day. His AOTY speech pointed out that our whole society has been built upon racism and disadvantage of Aboriginal people. Both these ideas challenge people’s beliefs that racism isn’t part of society, that they succeeded wholly on their own merits and not at the expense of others. Many don’t like it so they push back and look for excuses. That fact it was a teenager caught up in the most publicised example allowed them to twist the narrative, paint her as the victim, it’s not society. When the racism behind the booing was pointed out, they twisted the narrative to say if one person was booing because he once slid into a player, it can’t be racist, our society isn’t racist. It’s excuse making.

It’s too nuanced for Big Footy but the pile on and the way he was sent out of the game was racist and s**t.
 
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Tas said:
He played for 16 years, so nobody booed him for 14 years then all of a sudden hordes of racists all of a sudden appeared and booed him for the last 2 years because of the colour of his skin? I think that is a bit of a straw man.

I didn't really see anything negative about his Australia Day speech and claims that was the reason why people booed him doesn't sit well with me, because I think his sentiments have been expressed by other indigenous players and a lot of indigenous players were exposed to very harsh racism before his time.

I think there were a lot of little things that occurred the last couple of years, each in isolation wouldn't have resulted in the same result but I think the tipping point was when the media kicked up a storm saying you can boo whomever you like but you can't boo this one person, regardless of the context, regardless what he does on-field, if you do then you are a racist and I think it triggered a far greater reaction from people who wanted to give the middle finger to the establishment in terms of where they get off judging people what they think and feel.

Because towards the end the booing became nonsensical, it was an era when we wouldn't even tolerate racist comments in the crowd.

I always loved watching Goodes play, he was one of my favourite players outside of my own club, he was a magical player. It is sad that it panned out the way that it did and I never went to games and booed anyone, even though I don't think all the booing was motivated by racism, I was disappointed that people didn't stop when he felt that it was racist. It is a shame his career ended in the manner that it did.

However, he has made his choice. I think everyone should just leave him alone to live out his life however he wishes, and I think the AFL and the media should leave him alone as well but they can't resist dragging him back in because the establishment loves nothing else than to use someone as pawn to feel good about themselves that they are superior than the rest of the peons, they wont give up this gift-horse to keep dragging him back into the spotlight regardless if it is against his wishes, just so he can be used as a tool for their own agenda.

The one thing the establishment hated far worse than the treatment that Adam Goodes suffered, was that the average punter told the media, and establishment at large, to get f’ed.

How many more times are we going to drag poor Goodsey back into this sh*t show?
Click to expand...

very good post
 

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Maddo11 said:
Oh okay, so it's because he slid twice in 2012 and then in 2014 he tried to kick a ball off the ground in a sport called ... *checks notes* foot ball? That can't be right
Click to expand...

Well he wasn’t booed before the Gibson incident ....
It was made very clear that’s why Hawks supporters were booing him.
was it not??????????
 
JackOutback said:
And this is such a simplistic argument.
Click to expand...

As opposed to 'everyone is racist' which is nuanced?

The binary nonsense that people carry on with these days inevitably leads to unfavourable outcomes.

If you tell everyone that doesn't see things 100% the same as you they are racist (or sexist, whatever) then you are going to end up with a lot of people saying '* you I am not' in response. Which is exactly what happened with the Goodes circus.
 
Scotland said:
As opposed to 'everyone is racist' which is nuanced?

The binary nonsense that people carry on with these days inevitably leads to unfavourable outcomes.

If you tell everyone that doesn't see things 100% the same as you they are racist (or sexist, whatever) then you are going to end up with a lot of people saying 'fu** you I am not' in response. Which is exactly what happened with the Goodes circus.
Click to expand...
But I didn’t make that argument either.

The problem is many in Australia are against racism right up to the moment their beliefs are challenged or they are asked to actually do something. That’s why Eddie talking up about the guy who threw the banana doesn’t create a problem. The whole issue can be dismissed as one person being a jerk. Hell, even Goodes was applauded on the night for pointing out racism. The blowback came the next day when he said the girl was just an innocent face of a wider problem. That asked society to take a good hard look at itself and consider whether we play any part in that, what we can do to change.

Likewise, Michael Long (who copped a lot during his playing days) can be praised for the long walk because all it asks people to do is walk to a game they were already going to and mutter something about believing in equality. Goodes’ Australian of the Year speech forcefully stated that our current society was built on stolen land and that shouldn’t be forgotten. That challenges people again, asks them to question the legitimacy of what we have and how we got it. It’s an uncomfortable topic.

So that’s why pointing to one Indigenous player and saying he didn’t get booed doesn’t show anything. The booing of Goodes was unquestionably shaped by issues of race, making it racist.
 
Here is some back ground to why hawks supporters were booing after 2013 .... doesn’t matter if you agree or disagree with Dermie...
Gibson was also furious after the incident.
Hawks supporters were filthy over the incident.
this is called CONTEXT...

Yet goodes can’t explain to his family why they are booing him?????
2014 round 8 he gets booed 1 year after incident.




FORMER Hawthorn great Dermott Brereton has blasted Adam Goodes, accusing the Swans star of trying to chop the legs of Hawthorn defender Josh Gibson.

In a scathing assessment of an incident on Saturday night, Brereton also said Goodes had form for such contact and preferred to use his legs rather than put his head over the ball if facing heavy a body-on-body duel.

On Monday, the AFL Match Review Panel cleared Goodes of the incident, saying he was making a legitimate attempt to kick the ball.

Brereton strongly criticised the verdict and claimed the Swans utility enjoys a "good run" from the panel.

Goodes and Gibson tangled legs as the ball was in dispute near the boundary during the MCG match. The Hawks defender limped from the field, but returned and played out the match.

"Adam Goodes, as is his penchant ... lunges forward with a foot," Brereton said on SEN radio.

"To me, he knew exactly what he was doing and he chopped out Josh Gibson's leg.

"Quite possibly, that action can ruin somebody's career.

"In English football, that is a leg chop - that is red card stuff."

Brereton described Goodes as a champion person and an even better footballer - but also said the two-time Brownlow medallist was prone to using his legs in such situations.

"He's a champion - he's gutsy at playing with his own injuries," Brereton said.

"But when it comes to putting his head over the ball and copping body on body, he chooses to go feet-first at other people's peril.

"There is a lot of courage in Adam Goodes. But the gladiatorial-type courage of copping one big to the head - Goodes goes feet-first."

Brereton added Gibson was furious when he went to the bench after Saturday's incident.

"Gibson called him every name under the sun when he came to the bench," he said.

"Gibson was in no doubt that Goodes tried to take him out by going feet-first."

He also did not hold back when discussing the panel's finding.

"There is an enormous amount of leniency here to Adam Goodes," Brereton said.

"They don't want to put him out ... he gets a good run.

"The people who have made this adjudication don't understand the moment.

"He tried to trip him."

Brereton said he expects to be accused of hypocrisy, given his long list of suspensions as a player.

"To that end, I understand what makes a person do that," he said.
 
JackOutback said:
But I didn’t make that argument either.

The problem is many in Australia are against racism right up to the moment their beliefs are challenged or they are asked to actually do something. That’s why Eddie talking up about the guy who threw the banana doesn’t create a problem. The whole issue can be dismissed as one person being a jerk. Hell, even Goodes was applauded on the night for pointing out racism. The blowback came the next day when he said the girl was just an innocent face of a wider problem. That asked society to take a good hard look at itself and consider whether we play any part in that, what we can do to change.

Likewise, Michael Long (who copped a lot during his playing days) can be praised for the long walk because all it asks people to do is walk to a game they were already going to and mutter something about believing in equality. Goodes’ Australian of the Year speech forcefully stated that our current society was built on stolen land and that shouldn’t be forgotten. That challenges people again, asks them to question the legitimacy of what we have and how we got it. It’s an uncomfortable topic.

So that’s why pointing to one Indigenous player and saying he didn’t get booed doesn’t show anything. The booing of Goodes was unquestionably shaped by issues of race, making it racist.
Click to expand...


... and he got Massive cheers and warm reception in his first game he played after he was awarded Australian of the year in 2013???? 2014 Round 6 against Melbourne MCG 5 minutes to go in the third qtr... got massive cheers in the last qtr too.

 
Maddo11 said:
Oh okay, so it's because he slid twice in 2012 and then in 2014 he tried to kick a ball off the ground in a sport called ... *checks notes* foot ball? That can't be right
Click to expand...

Did you really forget the name of the sport?
 
Maddo11 said:
Please, elaborate
Click to expand...

It's a long-winded, but genuine response.

I understand there is a history of associating POC with primates, abuse of evolutionary theory to justify mistreatment, dispossession by unjustly declared terra nullius etc. And I appreciate that Goodes and others genuinely interpreted "you big ape" to be a slur of this nature.

But the girl denied it, so before I went ahead and judged her according to my perceptions of the word, I pondered a few points.

Firstly, in all my time living in Australia (Vic, NT, SA) and a number of other countries, interacting with people from all over the globe, I have never once heard the word ape used as a racial insult. No word of a lie. I've heard ya big ape used as a term of endearment or mild insult. I've heard ape once at the footy, in something yelled at Fraser Gehrig. I've heard other primate-based racial insults, but never that one. Not saying it doesn't get used, just that it's possible to have had a broad range of experiences over decades and never encounter the word used that way.

So I considered the range of experience of the girl. She was 12yo just a week earlier. She lives in Moe. I know a 21yo girl from that region who lacks basic knowledge we all take for granted, like that the sun is a star. So when I think of this 13yo girl and ask myself, is it possible she also has never heard the word ape used this way? Is it possible she is genuinely oblivious to the historical association? And my answer is yeah, I figure that neither of these are at all an unrealistic possibility. It would come as no surprise whatsoever if either or both of these were true.

Now I'm not saying it's fact that every probability turned this way; that this is the way it went down. Just that, on the balance of information, my experience suggests this is my most likely situation - a clueless child caught up in the trauma of adult's issues; not some hateful teenager racially abusing Goodes.

The truth of course is, you don't know, I don't know, nobody knows. While Goodes' undoubtedly stood up to perceived racism, actual racism, that's not as clear cut. Do you System 1 this s**t straight into the racist basket, no ifs not buts, or do you stop, consider the world outside your perceptual bubble?

Dialogue to establish whether the offense taken was justified or misplaced would have been nice, but when the girl denied racial motivation, she was just ignored by her accusers who to this day, favour their "stood up to racism" narrative, when it's just as possible "bullied a child" is equally valid.
 
Monkey King said:
It's a long-winded, but genuine response.

I understand there is a history of associating POC with primates, abuse of evolutionary theory to justify mistreatment, dispossession by unjustly declared terra nullius etc. And I appreciate that Goodes and others genuinely interpreted "you big ape" to be a slur of this nature.

But the girl denied it, so before I went ahead and judged her according to my perceptions of the word, I pondered a few points.

Firstly, in all my time living in Australia (Vic, NT, SA) and a number of other countries, interacting with people from all over the globe, I have never once heard the word ape used as a racial insult. No word of a lie. I've heard ya big ape used as a term of endearment or mild insult. I've heard ape once at the footy, in something yelled at Fraser Gehrig. I've heard other primate-based racial insults, but never that one. Not saying it doesn't get used, just that it's possible to have had a broad range of experiences over decades and never encounter the word used that way.

So I considered the range of experience of the girl. She was 12yo just a week earlier. She lives in Moe. I know a 21yo girl from that region who lacks basic knowledge we all take for granted, like that the sun is a star. So when I think of this 13yo girl and ask myself, is it possible she also has never heard the word ape used this way? Is it possible she is genuinely oblivious to the historical association? And my answer is yeah, I figure that neither of these are at all an unrealistic possibility. It would come as no surprise whatsoever if either or both of these were true.

Now I'm not saying it's fact that every probability turned this way; that this is the way it went down. Just that, on the balance of information, my experience suggests this is my most likely situation - a clueless child caught up in the trauma of adult's issues; not some hateful teenager racially abusing Goodes.

The truth of course is, you don't know, I don't know, nobody knows. While Goodes' undoubtedly stood up to perceived racism, actual racism, that's not as clear cut. Do you System 1 this sh*t straight into the racist basket, no ifs not buts, or do you stop, consider the world outside your perceptual bubble?

Dialogue to establish whether the offense taken was justified or misplaced would have been nice, but when the girl denied racial motivation, she was just ignored by her accusers who to this day, favour their "stood up to racism" narrative, when it's just as possible "bullied a child" is equally valid.
Click to expand...

anothet great post ... a child who was probably brought up watching Jason Dunstall being called a Gorilla every week on the footy show.
Understanding comes from both sides....
 
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