Play Nice Adam Goodes

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Sep 25, 2010
Posts
1,695
Likes
1,779
AFL Club
Fremantle
A truly mature nation can simultaneously feel pride and shame, without taking any of it personally.
So in all your maturity as a member of the nation you can understand without taking it personally that I simultaneously love indigenous contribution and hate Adam Goodes' as a person and his contribution.

You understand that duality? Like your example the nation feeling shame and pride? I think indigenous culture is full of pride. I think Adam Goodes is shameful.

I hope you do have that maturity :) Glad to see you don't just blindly throw racism cards at will.
 

SBD Gonzalez

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Posts
9,207
Likes
10,627
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
Mate, footy is tribal, not in the indigenous sense. My player does something questionable, i argue every point that its not that bad, Your player does it, and its the worst crime imaginable.
You make some very good points, and I know you weren't replying to me, but just for the record I can honestly say I would have wildly applauded Goodesy's dance no matter who he played for. Even Collingwood. That's how much I enjoyed that spontaneous little bit of theatre of his.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Posts
35,162
Likes
28,986
Location
The GoldenBrown Heart of Victoria
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Man Utd Green Bay Melb Storm
If people stop being manipulated by the media in this country we can actually move forward and not be tied down with such utter pettiness.

Murdoch papers have such a strong hold on the collective pysche of this country.
RIIIIIIIIGHT....You mean the same papers whose sports journo's accused every Hawk supporter who boos Goodes as being racist?

You have no idea what you are talking about!
 

The King!

Chosen One
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Posts
91,646
Likes
72,207
Location
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
Nice try.

Any pics of McVeigh?

Create a thread when any Hawk goes the feet first tackle. Repeatedly.

Lol not that sad im not a hawks fan

If you think your club doesnt have some dirty snipers now and in the past you have your head in the sand

Roughead slid feet first at bird in the grand final
 

GoodesFella

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
May 24, 2015
Posts
303
Likes
231
AFL Club
Sydney
So in all your maturity as a member of the nation you can understand without taking it personally that I simultaneously love indigenous contribution and hate Adam Goodes' as a person and his contribution.

You understand that duality? Like your example the nation feeling shame and pride? I think indigenous culture is full of pride. I think Adam Goodes is shameful.

I hope you do have that maturity :) Glad to see you don't just blindly throw racism cards at will.
And why do you hate his contribution? Is it because he is articulate, speak well for an indigenous, forms his own opinions? That he makes you feel dumb? That your perceptions of footy player should be of one who either acts and speaks like dane swan or says nothing at all?

Has he shattered the illusion for you and that makes you feel uneasy?

Indigenous culture is full of pride because thats the only way they can overcome the massive issues they still face in Australia. Why do i have to sit here and read or listen to a white person in a position of privliage state that Adam Goodes is embarrassing his heritage or people when thats not true. Ask the majority of indigenious how they feel towards him.
 
Joined
Sep 13, 2000
Posts
66,390
Likes
26,092
Location
Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Horks
You make some very good points, and I know you weren't replying to me, but just for the record I can honestly say I would have wildly applauded Goodesy's dance no matter who he played for. Even Collingwood. That's how much I enjoyed that spontaneous little bit of theatre of his.
I found it entertaining too, and I assumed he was doing it with humor not being provocative, when he speaks hes not provocative, but he does like to make his points. Which, not being racist, I agree with.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Posts
91,646
Likes
72,207
Location
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
And why do you hate his contribution? Is it because he is articulate, speak well for an indigenous, forms his own opinions? That he makes you feel dumb? That your perceptions of footy player should be of one who either acts and speaks like dane swan or says nothing at all?

Has he shattered the illusion for you and that makes you feel uneasy?

Indigenous culture is full of pride because thats the only way they can overcome the massive issues they still face in Australia. Why do i have to sit here and read or listen to a white person in a position of privliage state that Adam Goodes is embarrassing his heritage or people when thats not true. Ask the majority of indigenious how they feel towards him.

I think goodesy is a great ambassador for his people and our club

But people dont have to like him mate
 

GoodesFella

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
May 24, 2015
Posts
303
Likes
231
AFL Club
Sydney
You make some very good points, and I know you weren't replying to me, but just for the record I can honestly say I would have wildly applauded Goodesy's dance no matter who he played for. Even Collingwood. That's how much I enjoyed that spontaneous little bit of theatre of his.
People are too stupid to realise it was done in the theatre of sport. Even at the press conference he had to explain it several times to journos who keep going with another narrative.

He spoke eloquently yesterday which seemed to piss off people even more.

Maybe we should listen to more dane awans speak in low monotones about nothing and then claim he is a character.

"im dane swan i have tatats yeah drive cars root hot chicks yeah took a photo of stuff yeah"
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Posts
2,441
Likes
3,591
Location
Syria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Oklahoma City Thunder
Apart from the media, do you actually pay attention to when he speaks, he work he does outside of football? Or do you only pay attention to what ch 7 and the HS tell you and then form your opions from the collective hivemind of bigfooty?

Have you ever spoken to Adam personally?

If people stop being manipulated by the media in this country we can actually move forward and not be tied down with such utter pettiness.

Murdoch papers have such a strong hold on the collective pysche of this country.
Unfortunately, it isn't relevant whether I know Adam or not, because believe it or not the general public don't know Adam Goodes. I can't sit down with him and ask him what he thinks. What I'm discussing is the persona he conveys to the general community in his actions towards racism and the aboriginal community.

Are you refuting any of the points I made, if so id be interested to hear which ones? Does he not seem to jump the opportunity to make things about him being Aboriginal ? Does he have a tendency to divide the communities? Does he have a fairly aggressive approach to combating racism? I mean, for real, in the past week he has made him being booed a race thing, and then divided the community with an unnecessary goal celebration.

If all this is untrue, why then is it hard for me, someone who loves all the work he does for an extremely if not necessary cause to feel as though im on the same side as him?
 

momentbymoment

Premiership Player
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Posts
3,864
Likes
4,246
AFL Club
Sydney
How am I benefiting? If my family had of stayed in Europe a hundred years ago my life would be terrible would it? I wouldnt have an education, or wealth? I would somehow have less access to education or opportunity? Are you been racist by saying Europe sucks and is a second rate place to be?
You live in an amazing country. We even call it the lucky country. Of course you are benefiting. No harm in that.

All I am saying is have some compassion and respect for the original owners of this land.

It's not that controversial is it?
 

SBD Gonzalez

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Jul 5, 2012
Posts
9,207
Likes
10,627
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Kidding, right?
So in all your maturity as a member of the nation you can understand without taking it personally that I simultaneously love indigenous contribution and hate Adam Goodes' as a person and his contribution.

You understand that duality? Like your example the nation feeling shame and pride? I think indigenous culture is full of pride. I think Adam Goodes is shameful.

I hope you do have that maturity :) Glad to see you don't just blindly throw racism cards at will.
Yes, I totally agree with all that you have said. I am not one of those people here insisting without any proof that anyone who boos Goodesy is racist, although I think it reasonable to assume that at least some of them are.

But I am certainly defending Goodes from what I feel is an extraordinary level of vitriol directed at him. He may not be spotless but you'd think he was Jack The Ripper the way some people carry on; the way he gets booed week in, week out, every single time he gets the ball now.

He is a true champion of the game and I consider myself lucky to be watching AFL in his era. But you see it differently and I respect that.
 

Kummerspeck

Premiership Player
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Posts
3,960
Likes
3,322
AFL Club
Sydney
Instead of just being proud of his heritage, and being proud to be an Australian, Adam Goodes uses his race to elevate his standing in society and uses it as a platform to, at every opportunity, say "Look at me". Morgan Freeman once said when asked about how to get rid of racism in relation to black history month, the answer was to "Stop talking about it, I need to stop calling you a white man, and you need to stop calling me a black man", and for me, I think this is the passive approach that needs to be taken to a long standing social issue. Adam Goodes could not be further from the mark in this regard. Every opportunity to make it "us" vs "them", he jumps on.
You essentially want any indigenous issues to be presented in a way you don't find confronting or uncomfortable. You're the real sane voice in a world full of crazies. When indigenous Australians aren't subject to a wide variety of disadvantage based on their race, maybe we can discuss not calling each other black and white, and have non-confrontational dialogue about how equal we all are. Until then, a lot of discussion on indigenous Australians will be uncomfortable and need to be pushed, because people who totally don't care about / see race in people would prefer it be done quietly, away from them.
 

The King!

Chosen One
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Posts
91,646
Likes
72,207
Location
Backwater
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Cavs, Redsox, Patriots
Yes, I totally agree with all that you have said. I am not one of those people here insisting without any proof that anyone who boos Goodesy is racist, although I think it reasonable to assume that at least some of them are.

But I am certainly defending Goodes from what I feel is an extraordinary level of vitriol directed at him. He may not be spotless but you'd think he was Jack The Ripper the way some people carry on; the way he gets booed week in, week out, every single time he gets the ball now.

He is a true champion of the game and I consider myself lucky to be watching AFL in his era. But you see it differently and I respect that.

Yeah its frustrating

I accept the need for those being tarred as racist by the media to defend themselves

But some of the anti goodes stuff is laughable

He is the worst human ever apparently
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Posts
101
Likes
80
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Unfortunately, it isn't relevant whether I know Adam or not, because believe it or not the general public don't know Adam Goodes. I can't sit down with him and ask him what he thinks. What I'm discussing is the persona he conveys to the general community in his actions towards racism and the aboriginal community.

Are you refuting any of the points I made, if so id be interested to hear which ones? Does he not seem to jump the opportunity to make things about him being Aboriginal ? Does he have a tendency to divide the communities? Does he have a fairly aggressive approach to combating racism? I mean, for real, in the past week he has made him being booed a race thing, and then divided the community with an unnecessary goal celebration.

If all this is untrue, why then is it hard for me, someone who loves all the work he does for an extremely if not necessary cause to feel as though im on the same side as him?
I actually like Adam Goodes. I think he is a good bloke but he does play for free kicks and is pretty self righteous. This is why people boo him (would think some would boo him because the is Aboriginal but very much a minority).

I have never booed anyone in my life but I will boo him not because I dislike him but because I dislike the media and others trying to lecture the public on how to behave.
 

Santana

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Posts
2,489
Likes
690
Location
........
Good news rednecks! Andrew Bolt agrees with you!
And it looks like you're on the same side with a first class flog like David Penberthy, who has declared pretty much every one who dislikes Goodes is a massive racist. Thanks for informing us what thousands of people think and feel, even if they don't know it David.

Bolt's got some serious competition here.
 

GoodesFella

Team Captain
Suspended
Joined
May 24, 2015
Posts
303
Likes
231
AFL Club
Sydney
Are you refuting any of the points I made, if so id be interested to hear which ones? Does he not seem to jump the opportunity to make things about him being Aboriginal ? Does he have a tendency to divide the communities? Does he have a fairly aggressive approach to combating racism? I mean, for real, in the past week he has made him being booed a race thing, and then divided the community with an unnecessary goal celebration.
He is using his high profile to make a stand, as have many challengers in sport in the past. We cant continue to think the way we do about our indigenous, they still have no voice in our community and when they do, they are lambasted for it. They are hurting immensely and yet we are doing nothing to inspire them as a collective nation.

And so he is using his profile to do something, to inspire and represent and get the message across. And people still miss the ****en point he is making by concentrating on his facets of his character which then dilutes the message thus forcing Adam to make even bigger points.

If we actually change our attitudes towards indigenous in all aspects and not just celebrate them for them entertaining us on a footy field then we wouldn't have Adam Goodes at all.

As it stands he needs to be a vocal voice for his people and being high profile he feels its his duty, why do we need to pass such nasty judgements towards him?

I understand that people dont like players who have torn their sides up, but we dont boo Chris Judd in 2015 for almost poking out another players eyes almost 5 or 6 years ago yet people are holding onto something he did in round 6 2004 or whatever year it was as justification for their booing. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people except that its driven by his stand on racism.

I havent heard Chris Judd boo'd in years ffs.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Posts
2,441
Likes
3,591
Location
Syria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Oklahoma City Thunder
You essentially want any indigenous issues to be presented in a way you don't find confronting or uncomfortable. You're the real sane voice in a world full of crazies. When indigenous Australians aren't subject to a wide variety of disadvantage based on their race, maybe we can discuss not calling each other black and white, and have non-confrontational dialogue about how equal we all are. Until then, a lot of discussion on indigenous Australians will be uncomfortable and need to be pushed, because people who totally don't care about / see race in people would prefer it be done quietly, away from them.
Yeah, you might be right. Perhaps my comparison between American and Australia is a bit narrow sighted, as we are probably a way off them in terms of our recognition of the aboriginal community vs. there approach to slavery.

Maybe its just wishful thinking hoping we are at stage where both communities can come together and move forward together. My only reservation with Adam Goodes is that i feel at times he is moving us away from that point instead of towards it.
 

Skeparovic

Club Legend
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Posts
1,207
Likes
1,672
AFL Club
Sydney
So let's call off Anzac Day because you and I had f** all to do with that too.

This "why are we getting blamed for something that happened before we were even born?" would have to be the lamest most BS deflective excuse ever trotted out.

Here's a fact. NO-ONE today is being blamed for the disgraces of the past.

I can feel shame for what my forefathers did, without fearing I'm expected to feel personally responsible.

Just like I can take pride on Anzac Day in what my forefathers did, without feeling I'm claiming any of that for myself.

Why are people so quick to take pride, but so kneejerk to reject any acknowledgement of shame?

A truly mature nation can simultaneously feel pride and shame, without taking any of it personally.
Interesting note you make there about shame. Most people either know what shame is and don't want to talk about or don't know what shame is however still don't want to talk about it.

Shame is the "intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of acceptance and belonging" (Brown, 2007) and for men is generally triggered by allowing people to see anything that can be perceived as weakness. Men are socialised to hide their vulnerabilities and fears and are under tremendous pressure to appear tough, strong, stoic, powerful, successful, fearless, in control and able.

Pride is something men are raised to express freely whereas shame is generally hidden in secrecy, silence and judgement.

Shame is a self-evaluative emotion about who we are (e.g i am inherently bad) in contrast to guilt which is still a self-evaluative emotion however relating to our behaviour (e.g. i did something bad).

I agree that it would be productive for everyone to acknowledge, speak out about and own their shame however that is a societal battle that is something that would need to be commenced via schooling curriculum etc and not a BF board.
 

Cleric

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Posts
12,897
Likes
13,757
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
You live in an amazing country. We even call it the lucky country. Of course you are benefiting. No harm in that.

All I am saying is have some compassion and respect for the original owners of this land.

It's not that controversial is it?
I give everyone equal compassion and respect. I judge people on how I find them. No one has more or less right to anything.
Im here because I was born here, just as Adam is. I didnt have to pass an exam or the like. I wasnt given a choice of where I was to be born. Aboriginals didnt invent this contienent. That was science. So they have no more right of ownership than I do. To follow your logic as I am 5th Generation Australian, with multiple family who forght and died for it in multiple wars in places like Gallipoli and Tobruk does an refugee family from Sudan owe me something? Should they respect me for my families history on this land?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom