Opinion Adam Goodes

[Steinfreo]

**** I love the Freo people. We take shit to another level. Defiantly some interesting discussion in here.

 

[Big Animal]

Zarke is half African American

Dammit. Thought his heritage was medit. europe

 

[ydraw]

Beliefs that are the most tenuously held need the most defence.

It's your belief that is the tenuous one, since nobody except a few left-wing writers have ever classified either Australian frontier wars or the Stolen generation as genocide. Certainly no official channels ever have. The closest anyone got to that was Kevin Rudd's apology, but even he refused to refer to it as genocide.

You are the one making the big claims here. Accusing someone of genocide is about as big as it gets.

More than 50% of the aboriginal population who were killed in the first 100 years after settlement were killed by smallpox. To call that an attempt at genocide would mean coming up with some proof that it was deliberate. As it stands, it's not even able to be proved the smallpox arrived via European settlers in Australia. Plenty of historians think it was equally likely to have originated from Indonesian traders (who likely caught it from Dutch settlers).

 

[Reginald Perrin]

If everyone else stops posting their political philosophy in the thread I will too. Seems to me there are a fair few people participating apart from me, including mods.

And if everybody else was jumping off a cliff?

Humans have an inbuilt ignore button you know, I've been using mine on most of your stuff, but there are limits and I was hoping you would have reached yours by now.

 

[pavsbootlace]

You seem to have a lot of trouble tolerating the views of people who don't align with yours.

Nope. I get that people have different views, some of my best friends are righty extremists like yourself. Not sure what I've said that could be interpreted as intolerant.

 

[pavsbootlace]

He said important lad

Who did?

 

[Frank J Moose]

Abbott proposed the PPL scheme which is the biggest new social welfare program since Whitlam, so he is a fair bit wet by my reckoning.

Do you understand why he did it? It wasn't because he thought it was a good idea. It wasn't because it was his economic view his only aim was to stop people voting for Labor. Ohh Labor have a decent policy but i can do bigger and better than that. From the moment he opened his mouth it was never going to be passed but it did its job.

 

[jmadrox]

One thing that all actual historical events have in common is plenty of information on the internet about them. There is zero information about the "Australian Genocide" on the internet because there was never any Australian genocide. If you cant understand that then I don't know what to tell you.

For example, here is a list of people who have walked across Australia. Here's an article about the Big Fibreglass Merino in Goulburn. Interesting to be sure, but hardly the news of the century. You'd think something as important as a genocide in recent living history would rate its own page on Wikipedia too. It doesn't. Because it never happened.

ok what happens when I type in aboriginal genocide in google?

Not only does it auto complete with "Aboriginal genocide" it also has "Aboriginal Genocide in Tasmania". So i am clearly not the first person to search for it.

A few i found with 5 minutes of searching (including the Holy Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Indigenous_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_War
http://www.stolengenerations.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=14

 

[ydraw]

And if everybody else was jumping off a cliff?

Humans have an inbuilt ignore button you know, I've been using mine on most of your stuff, but there are limits and I was hoping you would have reached yours by now.

I am actually having a great time. I enjoy debating. I just get disappointed with name calling. Doesn't serve any purpose.

Unfortunately I do realise that there are some people who get upset by opposing views. But then I don't really understand why those people read what are guaranteed to be controversial threads.

 

[ydraw]

Do you understand why he did it? It wasn't because he thought it was a good idea. It wasn't because it was his economic view his only aim was to stop people voting for Labor. Ohh Labor have a decent policy but i can do bigger and better than that. From the moment he opened his mouth it was never going to be passed but it did its job.

I don;t think that's true. I know a few people in the Liberal party and they all say that Abbott is a true believer in the paid parental leave scheme. He just can't get any support from it from his own party members who think it's a terrible idea.

 

[GilG]

Dammit. Thought his heritage was medit. europe

NO! He's one of us — of African-American background! OK, part African-American and he belongs to all of us, as Docker fans. Seriously, though, so very proud to have two brothers of African heritage like him and Tendai wearing the purple!

 

[GilG]

Yet another reason I'm proud to have Ross Lyon as senior coach of our team:

http://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2015-07-31/ignorane-is-no-excuse-lyon

 

[The Anchorite]

It's your belief that is the tenuous one, since nobody except a few left-wing writers have ever classified either Australian frontier wars or the Stolen generation as genocide. Certainly no official channels ever have. The closest anyone got to that was Kevin Rudd's apology, but even he refused to refer to it as genocide.

You are the one making the big claims here. Accusing someone of genocide is about as big as it gets.

Just as proof that you are a liar who refuses to engage with the evidence provided with you, I'm going to quote some posts of mine from earlier in the thread that demonstrate where official channels have done precisely what you say they haven't.

I'll give you one quote from the government's own report into the stolen generations, there are many more:

"The Australian practice of Indigenous child removal involved both systematic racial discrimination and genocide as defined by international law."

I could give you a long bibliography full of serious scholarly articles on genocide in Australia.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

You can do your own research. But I'm guessing you know that the colonisation of Australia, and of Tasmania, has been recognised as genocidal by a few more people, a bit more often, than "nobody, ever".

If you want to understand why the parallel you draw is wrong, not to mention pretty contemptible, and in no way "the exact same thing", go and read the stolen generations report that I linked to earlier.

I'll start you off with one final quote: "When a child was forcibly removed that child’s entire community lost, often permanently, its chance to perpetuate itself in that child. The Inquiry has concluded that this was a primary objective of forcible removals and is the reason they amount to genocide."

I've twice linked to a significant historical text and quoted sections relating to genocide, and you've ignored that.

Typing a phrase into google and scanning the first page does not count as research.

Nor does looking at wikipedia, but if you check out the first paragraph of the article on "Aboriginal Tasmanians", you will find that there is indeed mention of it, linking to an academic article. You might read that, then some of the texts it refers to, and then more. That still wouldn't really be research, but it would be a start.

So, you are a liar, and as Stronzo said, intellectually dishonest, not to mention morally bankrupt. But I'm sure you'll continue to repeat your patently false and basically hateful claims.

 

[ydraw]

A few i found with 5 minutes of searching (including the Holy Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Indigenous_Australians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_War

Massacres and War are not synonyms for genocide. It is a pretty specific term.

New Zealand had an even bigger war on a much bigger scale with the Maoris. Nobody calls that a genocide.

 

[ydraw]

So, you are a liar, and as Stronzo said, intellectually dishonest, not to mention morally bankrupt. But I'm sure you'll continue to repeat your patently false and basically hateful claims.

Whatever champ. Go have a cry.

 

[jmadrox]

Massacres and War are not synonyms for genocide. It is a pretty specific term.

New Zealand had an even bigger war on a much bigger scale with the Maoris. Nobody calls that a genocide.

clearly some call it genocide.
"The near-destruction of the Tasmanian Aborigines, and the frequent incidence of mass killings, has sparked debate among historians over whether the Black War should be defined as an act of genocide.[3]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_War

Added after edit:
"The near-destruction of Tasmania's Aboriginal population has been described as an act of genocide by historians including Robert Hughes, James Boyce, Lyndall Ryan and Tom Lawson.[75][76][77][78] The author of the concept of genocide, Raphael Lemkin, considered Tasmania the site of one of the world's clear cases of genocide[79] and Hughes has described the loss of Aboriginal Tasmanians as "the only true genocide in English colonial history".[75]"

 

[The Anchorite]

Massacres and War are not synonyms for genocide. It is a pretty specific term.

"The Australian practice of Indigenous child removal involved both systematic racial discrimination and genocide as defined by international law."

"When a child was forcibly removed that child’s entire community lost, often permanently, its chance to perpetuate itself in that child. The Inquiry has concluded that this was a primary objective of forcible removals and is the reason they amount to genocide."

 

[Malifice]

What a load of horsehit. I challenged people to link to an article describing genocide in Australia. They couldn't because there wasn't any. Hard to write an article about something that never happened.

I am dismayed that these forums have so many uneducated reflexive left-wing bullies who do nothing but try to shout down opposing views all day long.

Define genocide. Then we can look at what's happened to Aboriginal Australians and see if the shoe fits.

Most sources I can find define genocide as:

Genocide is the systematic elimination of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious, cultural or national group.

Are you prepared to argue that this has not happened in Australia? How about in light of the Tasmanian Aboriginal population in particular? What other word can you use to describe what happened there?

I'm happy to accept your challenge about locating scholarly articles that liken the plight and history of Aboriginal Australians to genocide also.

The current debate is not about whether the genocide happened - although some people want to argue semantics it's not really helpful in any way. The current debate is centred on the extent of that genocide and how to deal with the lingering effects of it that continue to contribute to systemic entrenched disadvantage of aboriginal people today.

 

[ydraw]

ok what happens when I type in aboriginal genocide in google?

Look what happens when I type "abominable sn" into google, zomg.

 

[Stronzo]

It's your belief that is the tenuous one, since nobody except a few left-wing writers have ever classified either Australian frontier wars or the Stolen generation as genocide. Certainly no official channels ever have. The closest anyone got to that was Kevin Rudd's apology, but even he refused to refer to it as genocide.

You are the one making the big claims here. Accusing someone of genocide is about as big as it gets.

Lazy response from you as expected.

Efforts to breed out indigenous people amounts to genocide. Removing children from their families to disrupt their cultural continuity amounts to genocide.

Just so we're on the same page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

"Genocide is the systematic elimination of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic, religious, cultural or nationalgroup."

 

[jmadrox]

Look what happens when I type "abominable sn" into google, zomg.

I'm not sure if your posts argues what you think it argues.
Many many people know and search about the Abominable Snowman,

Many people also know and search for info on Aboriginal genocide.

 

[The Anchorite]

Plenty of people have experienced racism Anchorite. There were examples of someone being at a footy game, being called names because he is white, then complaining he wouldn't be able to call names back.
That's the level of racism many white people have experienced, occasional and while hurtful, not systemic.

The problem is that these people then tend to equate the low level racism they have experienced with the lifetime of experiences that most aboriginal people have. That is where well meaning people go wrong, along with the generalisation from a single incident eg "I went to school and the aboriginal kid bashed me..."

I think it's a real stretch calling that racism of any sort. It is not systemic, nor connected to a history of institutionalised marginalisation and oppression.

 

[ydraw]

Lazy response from you as expected.

Efforts to breed out indigenous people amounts to genocide.
"

Only if that is the deliberate aim. For example, full blood Tasmanians basically went extinct because white settlers kept abducting and raping their women until there were hardly any full blooded kids being born. But it wasn;t a deliberate act of genocide - they were doing it because there were no other women in Tasmania to rape. And it certainly wasn't a government policy. It was the action of ex-criminals who had no real fear of repurcussions from the law for doing it. Although a lot of them got speared for it, which led to more retaliatory attacks, etc.

 

[ydraw]

I'm not sure if your posts argues what you think it argues.
Many many people know and search about the Abominable Snowman,

Many people also know and search for info on Aboriginal genocide.

People search google for unicorns and the Loch Ness monster too.

 

[ydraw]

Are you prepared to argue that this has not happened in Australia? How about in light of the Tasmanian Aboriginal population in particular? What other word can you use to describe what happened there?.

The most common word to describe it in both history texts and in general is "War". The Black War.