Adam Goodes

[RUNVS]

Not saying you’re wrong but interested in your method at arriving at this conclusion...

I know I am sort of avoiding your question here but there is some method to it. Who would you personally prefer, an 18-year-old Fyfe, or an 18-year-old Pavlich?

 

[Socrates2]

Garbage.

Blacks are shot by police in a lower/lesser proportion to their participation in crime. In other words, yes there are more black people killed in police shootings, in the US. However, they are more likely to commit crime and to therefore be involved in arrest/apprehension situations by police.

According to 2015 national crime statistics from the FBI, 89% of black murder victims were killed by black perpetrators. Among white murder victims, 81% were killed by someone else who was white. So it's not as though you have white people going around shooting blacks KKK style.

According to a study referred to in 'The Conversation' (see link below), blacks are 3 times more likely to be killed by police the white men. However, their rate of involvement in serious crime is approximately 6 times that of whites (going by their incarceration rate).

A far more constructive thing Colin Kaepernick (and other blacks with his profile) could do is speak to other black men about not joining gangs and getting involved in violent crime.

At the risk of sounding conservative (a dirty word on these forums), the fact that black youths are 3 times less likely to have an involved/active father than whites might also have something to do with the aforementioned statistics.

http://theconversation.com/police-kill-about-3-men-per-day-in-the-us-according-to-new-study-100567

Nice twisting of the stats! You shouod work for One Nation!

 

[Craze]

The same twits offended by Goodes stance racism probably are also offended by Colin Kaepernick's 'take a knee' stance against police brutality/slayings of black people in America. The sad truth is, Kaepernick found a lot more allies in White America (with its infamous history of the KKK) than Goodes did with White Australia.

i bet if the Nicky Winmar Victoria park incident happened in the last few years, Winmar would have copped similar (if not worse) abuse than Goodes..

The sad truth is, Mainstream Australia still feels threatened when strong members of minority groups (be racial, religious or sexual gender or orientation) make a stand and want to stamp out bigotry in the community.

And the hypocrisy of Hawthorn fans accussing Goodes of being a snipe, two words - LUKE HODGE

FYI I think Goodes probably did get off luckily at the Tribunal over the years, but that is down to the idiots on the panel, not Goodes himself. There was no conpiracy or agenda at the AFL to let Goodes off because of the colour of his skin.

All you idiots accusing Goodes of being a sook/attention seeker, try imagine all thhe abuse he has copped over the years, going back to when he was a kid.

As i said in my first post on the subject, the Goodes fiasco reflected bad on AFL fans, and Australia generally.

Sorry, I shouldn't say 'garbage' because I agree with most of your points. However I respectfully disagree with your views about Colin Kaepernick.

 

[hansie]

Because a guy was good at football and a good bloke he is a deserving President? Hodgy step on up.....

Honestly mate, get your hand off it. Ridiculous suggestion.

Moreso for his off field stuff mate. Advocacy for aboriginal issues and charity work. Profile helps. Better him than Eddie!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RUNVS]

Or an 18yo Alyssa Milano.

She wouldn't help Richmond much.

 

[Carson Dial]

I know I am sort of avoiding your question here but there is some method to it. Who would you personally prefer, an 18-year- old Fyfe, or an 18-year-old Pavlich?

Guess it depends on which position has the greater need at the time. Both great players. Plenty would argue that they were better or worse than Goodes.

 

[Farang83150]

It’s not his responsibility to present things in a ‘tactful’ manner that’s acceptable to overly sensitive white oeople.

Does that work both ways?

 

[RUNVS]

Guess it depends on which position has the greater need at the time. Both great players. Plenty would argue that they were better or worse than Goodes.

One thing about Goodes is that he was never actually that prolific with the ball in the sense that he racked up big numbers. In fact I think his career high was about 34 disposals which does not sound like that much, but what Goodes did with the ball was amazing as he took the game on, could out mark most players and for a man his size he was brilliantly evasive and clean with not only picking up the ball from the deck but also his disposal.



Look at the first highlight, and the highlight at 56 seconds.

Goodes, generally speaking, didn't go for the cheap possessions. He was also much more daring than most in terms of where he would kick it. He wasn't the sort of player who kicked sideways or backwards much.

 

[NoobPie]

The sad truth is, Kaepernick found a lot more allies in White America (with its infamous history of the KKK) than Goodes did with White Australia.

That is a massive load of bullshyt

Most people I know, (few of which are aboriginal) thought the Goodes booing situation was atrocious

More broadly, Goodes is one of the all time greats of our game. Kaepernick is certainly not one of the all time greats of the NFL.

'merica is a much more divided country than ours is. Let us not, for sanctimony's sake, imagine ourselves worse off than them

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

People who make a big deal over the entire spear throwing saga are just pathetic imo. Pretending like they feel threatened by it so you can attack the man is just simply poor form. Obvious fake outrage, just sad

 

[StevoJenkins]

The same twits offended by Goodes stance racism probably are also offended by Colin Kaepernick's 'take a knee' stance against police brutality/slayings of black people in America. The sad truth is, Kaepernick found a lot more allies in White America (with its infamous history of the KKK) than Goodes did with White Australia.

i bet if the Nicky Winmar Victoria park incident happened in the last few years, Winmar would have copped similar (if not worse) abuse than Goodes..

The sad truth is, Mainstream Australia still feels threatened when strong members of minority groups (be racial, religious or sexual gender or orientation) make a stand and want to stamp out bigotry in the community.

And the hypocrisy of Hawthorn fans accussing Goodes of being a snipe, two words - LUKE HODGE

FYI I think Goodes probably did get off luckily at the Tribunal over the years, but that is down to the idiots on the panel, not Goodes himself. There was no conpiracy or agenda at the AFL to let Goodes off because of the colour of his skin.

All you idiots accusing Goodes of being a sook/attention seeker, try imagine all thhe abuse he has copped over the years, going back to when he was a kid.

As i said in my first post on the subject, the Goodes fiasco reflected bad on AFL fans, and Australia generally.

1. Black people aren’t “slayed” in the US. Black people commit violent crime at a much higher rate than any other group in America, hence they are going to get shot at more. That being said, there are stats out there from the FBI over the years that have pointed out that more white people have been killed in police shootings over the years. Is there a movement for them? Nope. Should the take a knee debarckle have been about police brutality in general and police shootings? Very much so. There are many sources that debunk “black slaying” by police. Keep in mind that African Americans commit more violent crime, but only make up 21-24% of the population depending on the source you’re looking at.

2. The KKK has around 5000 members and they were never as massively prominent as you imply. Does America have racists? Sure, maybe. But is a large amount of America racist as you’re implying? No. You seriously sound like the group of people that called everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary sexist.

3. Didn’t “mainstream Australia” vote in a peblisite where over half the country said they were in favour of gay marriage despite the blockades the Liberal party put in front of them? Sounds like, based on that, that Australia isn’t against minorities. Are you just making stupid statements based off flat air or do know everyone that is part of this “mainstream Australia”?

4. You must be pretty knowledgeable and have Goodes feeding you information to know exactly what he’s went through since he was a kid. I’m not going to pretend that I know what he went through, but implying you know exactly what he went through is hilarious at best. What if he didn’t go through anything? What if he went through he over exaggerated? You don’t know that.

5. AFL fans do not represent Australia. Most of the points you have made here are generalised statements full of hot air. The AFL isn’t made up of 25 million people, not even close. You’re trying to paint the actions of many to a group that is made up of around 25 million people, and it’s down right *ed that you think that their actions should be put on the rest of us as a result.

Stop making generalised statements without facts to back them up. You are what’s wrong with the world and it’s current political climate, as you make dangerous statements about things you don’t have a lot of knowledge about and treat them as fact. You’re welcome to your opinion, but you’re making statements and misrepresenting facts.

Lol, you are the victim mate, keep on believing that you are oppressed lol

Shut up champ

Nice twisting of the stats! You shouod work for One Nation!

I’m going to brush over this quickly as this isn’t what this thread is about, but pretty much every group whether it’s male/female, gay/straight/trans or white/black/asian/aliens (that last one is a joke btw) has some kind of problem or “oppression” in the current political climate. Do some groups have more problems than others? Yes. Does that make their groups issues any less important? No. It’s up to all of us to identify the issues each group has internally and with other groups to make this shithole of a planet we live better for everyone on it. Whether you’re a white Australian who doesn’t like Goodes or you’re some other person.

Don’t be so quick to go on the offensive, as many others have done on this thread, because all you do is hurt the cause that you’re trying to stand up for\defend and become ammunition for another group.

 

[Socrates2]

1. Black people aren’t “slayed” in the US. Black people commit violent crime at a much higher rate than any other group in America, hence they are going to get shot at more. That being said, there are stats out there from the FBI over the years that have pointed out that more white people have been killed in police shootings over the years. Is there a movement for them? Nope. Should the take a knee debarckle have been about police brutality in general and police shootings? Very much so. There are many sources that debunk “black slaying” by police. Keep in mind that African Americans commit more violent crime, but only make up 21-24% of the population depending on the source you’re looking at.

2. The KKK has around 5000 members and they were never as massively prominent as you imply. Does America have racists? Sure, maybe. But is a large amount of America racist as you’re implying? No. You seriously sound like the group of people that called everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary sexist.

3. Didn’t “mainstream Australia” vote in a peblisite where over half the country said they were in favour of gay marriage despite the blockades the Liberal party put in front of them? Sounds like, based on that, that Australia isn’t against minorities. Are you just making stupid statements based off flat air or do know everyone that is part of this “mainstream Australia”?

4. You must be pretty knowledgeable and have Goodes feeding you information to know exactly what he’s went through since he was a kid. I’m not going to pretend that I know what he went through, but implying you know exactly what he went through is hilarious at best. What if he didn’t go through anything? What if he went through he over exaggerated? You don’t know that.

5. AFL fans do not represent Australia. Most of the points you have made here are generalised statements full of hot air. The AFL isn’t made up of 25 million people, not even close. You’re trying to paint the actions of many to a group that is made up of around 25 million people, and it’s down right ******ed that you think that their actions should be put on the rest of us as a result.

Stop making generalised statements without facts to back them up. You are what’s wrong with the world and it’s current political climate, as you make dangerous statements about things you don’t have a lot of knowledge about and treat them as fact. You’re welcome to your opinion, but you’re making statements and misrepresenting facts.






I’m going to brush over this quickly as this isn’t what this thread is about, but pretty much every group whether it’s male/female, gay/straight/trans or white/black/asian/aliens (that last one is a joke btw) has some kind of problem or “oppression” in the current political climate. Do some groups have more problems than others? Yes. Does that make their groups issues any less important? No. It’s up to all of us to identify the issues each group has internally and with other groups to make this shithole of a planet we live better for everyone on it. Whether you’re a white Australian who doesn’t like Goodes or you’re some other person.

Don’t be so quick to go on the offensive, as many others have done on this thread, because all you do is hurt the cause that you’re trying to stand up for\defend and become ammunition for another group.

Well tell me what you don't like about Adam Goodes.As far as I can see, he was a champion footballer who spoke out against racism and is now retired.To me this constant bagging of his character is borderline at the least.

 

[SherbertLemon]

Why all of a sudden is it racism to dislike a player like Adam Goodes?

There are numerous players in the league I hate with a passion, and it’s mostly because I hate their club, losing to them, and their personality by extension.

But this can’t be applied to old mate because he has a different skin colour. And we just brand anybody who thinks otherwise as a broad brushed racist.

It’s lazy thinking and backwards.

Most champions are disliked by rival clubs, can we stop assuming the worst of each other?

 

[StevoJenkins]

Well tell me what you don't like about Adam Goodes.As far as I can see, he was a champion footballer who spoke out against racism and is now retired.To me this constant bagging of his character is borderline at the least.

I have mixed feelings about Goodes. On one hand he was a good footballer for many years, he ended up doing some questionable actions on the field, but he was always good to watch.

I do believe that his status in the media/his status as an indigenous player did affect his tribunals/punishments towards the end of his career, as it’s been well documented that having minority traits (gender and/or race) does lead to less punishment in tribunal settings (not that these systems care). That being said, my opinion on this isn’t as solid as others, as I’m not a member of these sports tribunals and thus I do not know the process nor what goes on behind closed doors. If this happened though it’s not the fault of Goodes... At least the end decision part.

I also don’t like how he brought politics into footy, as I don’t watch AFL to get the politics the mainstream media feeds me. I tend to read a lot of independent articles and watch videos online from people like Tim Pool and many other figures from the right, left and centre as an alternative to remain balanced/fully informed. What we watch on the news isn’t even 50% of the truth at times. Especially if you watch the literal s**t pile that is The Project. But yeah, I don’t like it when politics and sport are mixed as watching AFL is my weekend escape.

Does all of that matter to me now? Not really, but I can understand why others would still get bothered by Goodes, even after his retirement.

The main reason why I came into this thread to is balance it out, as the first person I responded to had some really dumb opinions that were attempted to be passed as fact and people like yourself were just shutting people down without any real reason to do so outside of disagreement. Now that Goodes is out of the game, his previous actions don’t have too much bearing on me.

I do think it’s worth mentioning that none of us really know the character of Goodes, whether you’re attacking him or defending him. He could be a complete scumbag or a holy saint for all we know. It’s worth noting that every AFL player gets at least some kind of “media training” to make themselves come across as something they may not be. As a result we may never know what Goodes was really/actually like during the end half of his career.

 

[Socrates2]

What questionable actions are you referring to, and why would he potentially be a scumbag.He's just a bloke from Ballarat who played footy. His family is very nice, I have sat near them before.You can't complain if people want to speak out on social issues , I think there should be more of it. The AFL gives out an award every year for the player who does the best charity work but it's usually some corporate managed charity.If people think he got too much of a forum, well it's just too bad in my book.I can see that people just wanted to watch the footy but it's time to lay off him. It takes courage to put up with stuff that gets hurled at him imo.

 

[Dirty Bird]

I used to love him as a player.
But around 2012 I felt threatened his legacy was surpassing that of Andrew McLeod’s as greatest ever indigenous player.

But then I lost all respect for him in the incident with the Collingwood fan. I’m about 10 years older then her and I myself was ignorant to the fact that referring to an indigenous person was racist. And I grew up with my dad calling players like Alastair lynch and Ben rutten “gorillas” because of their muscle and being powerful Kpp.
The way that was handled was bullshit. Her being labeled a racist when she was ignorant? I felt terrible for that girl and lost respect for how Adam handled that situation. She was thrown under the bus.

Ps. I was in his corner for the Eddie Maguire incident. That incident I thought educated some ignorant Australians like myself and that girl. But then Eddie makes that comment calling him King Kong? How the **** could anybody make any association publically after the media hoo-hah from the first incident. If Andrew fagan made that comment today I’d be sharpening my pitchfork to get him sacked as adelaides ceo.

The first incident was a learning device for Australians everywhere. To still be ignorant and have a second incident so soon?

All this thread has done is remind me how weak the Collingwood board was. And remind me how poorly Adam handled the first situation (second one he handled admirably though)

 

[StevoJenkins]

What questionable actions are you referring to, and why would he potentially be a scumbag.He's just a bloke from Ballarat who played footy. His family is very nice, I have sat near them before.You can't complain if people want to speak out on social issues , I think there should be more of it. The AFL gives out an award every year for the player who does the best charity work but it's usually some corporate managed charity.If people think he got too much of a forum, well it's just too bad in my book.I can see that people just wanted to watch the footy but it's time to lay off him. It takes courage to put up with stuff that gets hurled at him imo.

I think you’re missing the point about the scumbag comment. I said he could be a scumbag or he could be a saint, we don’t know. Everyone who has posted something targeted towards Goodes is a making a claim towards his character without knowing the bloke. That’s my point, and it’s a point that pretty much can’t be disproven unless you can spend mass amounts of time around him.

Someone I know had a bad experience with Goodes, where he was shoved from behind, does that mean he could be a scumbag? How the hell am I going to know?

On the social issues bit, I’m not complaining about people talking about them (even though in at least one interview that Goodes did that I remember, he implied most of Australia was racist, but that’s something I will let slide as it wasn’t a great time for him) read my first reply to you on this thread fully as I am clearly in favour of talking. What I am complaining about is the setting of which he did it in. It’s like vegan activists showing up to a kids birthday party and then shouting “Eggs are murder” or “Eggs are child abuction” when the bloody cake comes out. Leave the kids alone to have fun. The time and place need to be right in order to make a point that will be accepted, otherwise you get the Goodes situation where some of my mates who attended the footy booed him, but not for the reason you think. They booed him because of his use of AFL to advocate for social issues.

People can complain (as long as the Australian Government doesn’t interviegn because we don’t have freedom of speech) and people can have too much of a forum/use the wrong forum to speak out about their issues. Once again I use a vegan example here, but recently some vegans decided to block off and stall a steakhouse because “meat is murder”. It was the wrong forum and didn’t work out for the activists involved because all it did was piss off a whole bunch of people. Veganism is a worth while cause at face value, but those activists still didn’t think in regards to time and place.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Why all of a sudden is it racism to dislike a player like Adam Goodes?

There are numerous players in the league I hate with a passion, and it’s mostly because I hate their club, losing to them, and their personality by extension.

But this can’t be applied to old mate because he has a different skin colour. And we just brand anybody who thinks otherwise as a broad brushed racist.

It’s lazy thinking and backwards.

Most champions are disliked by rival clubs, can we stop assuming the worst of each other?

It’s part of a disturbing trend where if you talk about issues ranging from feminsism/immigration to football/TV show characters, you can be called a whole range of slurs that do not represent what you were saying or ment if you have the “wrong opinion”. I don’t see it changing any time soon unfortunately.

 

[Handsome_Jack]

Not going to quote anyone because they are all fairly lengthy posts to edit down on a phone. Do the posters suggesting that black people in the US commit crime at a proportionally higher rate than other ethnic groups not think that if you are a police system that disproportionately targets and observes a certain racial group alongside a judicial system that convicts and incarcerates them at a significantly less forgiving rate that the stats ARE probably going to eroniously indicate that they commit more crime in general than a group that is treated more leniently systemically? It's pretty damning when you see all these white mass shooters taken alive after mowing down scores of people and then hear the next day about a black child being shot dead sleeping on the couch inside their own house by police officers (and yes that is an actual example that happened)

Statistics can indicate pretty much whatever you want if you know how to use them. I have lived in NYC and travelled all around the American South and I can tell you that black people there have every reason to kick up a storm about their treatment by law enforcement.

As for Adam Goodes, absolute champion player and I respect a lot of what he tried to do with his activism. Have to laugh at the Hawks fans though trying to paint him out as a thug after Hodge attempted to cripple Wingard, lucky for them he didn't quite manage it I guess.

 

[SSrixon]

Fyfe is a very good player, but he isn't at Goodes level.

At no stage in his career was Goodes regarded as the best player in the league. When Ablett went down in 2014 Fyfe was the best until the end of 2015 when he had that leg fracture. Fully fit I'd still say Fyfe is the best player in the league (I'd personally take him over Dangerfield and Martin) but he has a habit getting suspended or getting injured. Goodes may end up more decorated and yes he was good for a long time, but i'd take peak Fyfe over Goodes every day of the week.

 

[Socrates2]

I think you’re missing the point about the scumbag comment. I said he could be a scumbag or he could be a saint, we don’t know. Everyone who has posted something targeted towards Goodes is a making a claim towards his character without knowing the bloke. That’s my point, and it’s a point that pretty much can’t be disproven unless you can spend mass amounts of time around him.

Someone I know had a bad experience with Goodes, where he was shoved from behind, does that mean he could be a scumbag? How the hell am I going to know?

On the social issues bit, I’m not complaining about people talking about them (even though in at least one interview that Goodes did that I remember, he implied most of Australia was racist, but that’s something I will let slide as it wasn’t a great time for him) read my first reply to you on this thread fully as I am clearly in favour of talking. What I am complaining about is the setting of which he did it in. It’s like vegan activists showing up to a kids birthday party and then shouting “Eggs are murder” or “Eggs are child abuction” when the bloody cake comes out. Leave the kids alone to have fun. The time and place need to be right in order to make a point that will be accepted, otherwise you get the Goodes situation where some of my mates who attended the footy booed him, but not for the reason you think. They booed him because of his use of AFL to advocate for social issues.

People can complain (as long as the Australian Government doesn’t interviegn because we don’t have freedom of speech) and people can have too much of a forum/use the wrong forum to speak out about their issues. Once again I use a vegan example here, but recently some vegans decided to block off and stall a steakhouse because “meat is murder”. It was the wrong forum and didn’t work out for the activists involved because all it did was piss off a whole bunch of people. Veganism is a worth while cause at face value, but those activists still didn’t think in regards to time and place.

I don't see how a vegan protest at a steak shop is relevant. You say 'They booed him because of his use of AFL to advocate for social issues.' Can you imagine that happening in the NBA where their are a lot of black players.Afl players are disproportionately indigenous so it's the perfect place ro raise awareness of real issues.I agree with him that most Australian's are racist, you just have to look who people elect to parliament.

 

[Kummerspeck]

But then I lost all respect for him in the incident with the Collingwood fan. I’m about 10 years older then her and I myself was ignorant to the fact that referring to an indigenous person was racist. And I grew up with my dad calling players like Alastair lynch and Ben rutten “gorillas” because of their muscle and being powerful Kpp.
The way that was handled was bullshit. Her being labeled a racist when she was ignorant? )

He went on national TV, said what you said, that she was ignorant, people need education, that she wasn't to blame for what she said and needed to be supported.

What should he have done?

 

[Dirty Bird]

He went on national TV, said what you said, that she was ignorant, people need education, that she wasn't to blame for what she said and needed to be supported.

What should he have done?

Idk,
Perhaps not single her out on national television in front of all of australia embarrassing the poor girl.
She made an ignorant mistake. Don’t drag her through the mud first.

 

[Rowan18]

The thing is, if Goodes did something bad in game that is fine. I mean Gaffe got the s**t booed out of him in the game he cleaned up Brayshaw, but the problem is when the booing continues game after game and for seemingly no reason. I mean Barry Hall punched Brent Staker, knocked him out cold, and when Barry returned I never remembered him getting booed like Goodes got booed, just like Judd never got booed like Goodes got booed despite being way worse on the field in terms of what he did. It got to the point where Goodes was being booed every game, no matter what, every single time he touched the ball and to me that steemed from his political activism and people were just using a few incidens on the field as an excuse for being him, when in reality they were booing him for his activism.

Barry Hall got booed but time at Subi oval. Judd (aka Judas) also got booed after he left west coast. I think Goodes was booed more because he was a tall poppy (and became a dirty, diving player toward the end).

 

[Kummerspeck]

Idk,
Perhaps not single her out on national television in front of all of australia embarrassing the poor girl.
She made an ignorant mistake. Don’t drag her through the mud first.

He pointed out someone in the crowd who yelled a slur during a game. Should he have ascertained the age and intent of someone abusing him before pointing them out?