List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[1970crow]

He's the one I'd be putting on the trade table for next year. 26 at the start of next year, hasn't really cemented his spot he could get a good pick upgrade, maybe a 2nd into a first.

Would be a much better player in a system that rewards leads of more than 1 or 2 players and can actually hit targets. It's very difficult to judge our forwards given the strategy and general foot skills of the players when they do attempt to hit a target or put the ball to the advantage side.

 

[huludicidal]

With the addition of Jordan Dawson as a trade, and Patrick Parnell and Nick Murray for Tyson Stengle and Bryce Gibbs mid year, we basically only have 4 senior list spots available for the draft?

Pick 4, 33, 75 and 80.

Is that correct.

We still have the opportunity to upgrade Jordan Butts and Ben Keays from the Rookie List, and if we do we basically only go to the draft with pick 4 and 33.

That would then give us the option of using 2 live picks in the rookie draft.

Does Ben Davis and Ronin O’Connor change this?


Can someone please help me out if I have forgotten someone or made an incorrect calculation with my predictions.

1) Yes, we currently have 4 senior list vacancies

2) If we elect to re-sign O’Connor, that reduces the number of senior vacancies to 3. To me, a likely scenario is us delisting O’Connor and redrafting him as a rookie. So still 4 senior spots available.

3) Ben Keays is unlikely to be upgraded to the senior list. The two players who are most likely to be upgraded are Butts and Strachan, as they have been rookies for longer than Keays. I would suggest the most likely outcome is that we upgrade just one of these players (for argument’s sake, let’s go with Butts). This reduces the number of senior spots available to 3.

4) Ben Davis is currently a rookie and will either be retained on the rookie list, or delisted. No impact on the senior vacancies either way.


So if the above plays out, we would have 3 live picks at the draft. 4, 33 and 75.

You can bet your bottom dollar that we would live trade to change those positions though. Maybe we split pick 4 for 7 and 15, or maybe we split 33 for a couple of picks in the 40s, or maybe we combine 33 with a future pick to acquire two
Picks around 20 and 40. It’s also possible that we only use two live picks and go in one short, or upgrade a rookie after the draft to fill that last senior spot. Or, we might even look at a delisted free agent (eg Woodcock, Lienert or Constable) to fill that last spot.

The chances of us actually using pick 75 in the draft are slim at best. The chances of us using pick 80 are 0.

 

[1970crow]

Rowe cops it a bit but he is a good footballer and is smart around traffic.
His challenge is to get really fit and find some grunt.

I'm totally baffled why Murphy is even on the list!
He is messy and has sh*t house skills.

love his pep.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

1) Yes, we currently have 4 senior list vacancies

2) If we elect to re-sign O’Connor, that reduces the number of senior vacancies to 3. To me, a likely scenario is us delisting O’Connor and redrafting him as a rookie. So still 4 senior spots available.

3) Ben Keays is unlikely to be upgraded to the senior list. The two players who are most likely to be upgraded are Butts and Strachan, as they have been rookies for longer than Keays. I would suggest the most likely outcome is that we upgrade just one of these players (for argument’s sake, let’s go with Butts). This reduces the number of senior spots available to 3.

4) Ben Davis is currently a rookie and will either be retained on the rookie list, or delisted. No impact on the senior vacancies either way.


So if the above plays out, we would have 3 live picks at the draft. 4, 33 and 75.

You can bet your bottom dollar that we would live trade to change those positions though. Maybe we split pick 4 for 7 and 15, or maybe we split 33 for a couple of picks in the 40s, or maybe we combine 33 with a future pick to acquire two
Picks around 20 and 40. It’s also possible that we only use two live picks and go in one short, or upgrade a rookie after the draft to fill that last senior spot. Or, we might even look at a delisted free agent (eg Woodcock, Lienert or Constable) to fill that last spot.

The chances of us actually using pick 75 in the draft are slim at best. The chances of us using pick 80 are 0.

I think what’s interesting is that they only expect 50-60 live selections at the draft. So pick 75 will end up being the equivalent a late third / early fourth round selection Even if it’s the last pick taken.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I think what’s interesting is that they only expect 50-60 live selections at the draft. So pick 75 will end up being the equivalent a late third / early fourth round selection Even if it’s the last pick taken.

The 2022 national draft after a full year of vfl football will be interesting. I'm thinking clubs are going to open up alot of list spots. Plenty of kids and kids who missed out on being draftees in their draft years, due to the pandemic, I think will have clubs clammering for draft picks.

On SM-N981B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[huludicidal]

I think what’s interesting is that they only expect 50-60 live selections at the draft. So pick 75 will end up being the equivalent a late third / early fourth round selection Even if it’s the last pick taken.

We won’t use it regardless IMO. Just take that player as a rookie instead in place of whoever we upgrade.

Live trades will likely change that landscape (ie the landscape of pick 75 which may become pick 55ish being our 3rd pick) and I would bet on us either a) making 3 picks inside 45 via live trading, or b) only making 2 live picks, when all is said and done.

 

[Scorpus]

With the addition of Jordan Dawson as a trade, and Patrick Parnell and Nick Murray for Tyson Stengle and Bryce Gibbs mid year, we basically only have 4 senior list spots available for the draft?

Pick 4, 33, 75 and 80.

Is that correct.

We still have the opportunity to upgrade Jordan Butts and Ben Keays from the Rookie List, and if we do we basically only go to the draft with pick 4 and 33.

That would then give us the option of using 2 live picks in the rookie draft.

Does Ben Davis and Ronin O’Connor change this?


Can someone please help me out if I have forgotten someone or made an incorrect calculation with my predictions.

Senior List

Out: Talia (delisted), Lynch (delisted), Kelly (FA), Stengle (delisted)
In: Dawson

Uncontracted: O'Connor

List spots: 3

---

Rookie List

Out: Gibbs (delisted), Mackay (retired)
In: Parnell, Murray

Uncontracted: Davis

List spots: 0

---

Cat B Rooke List

Out:
In:

Uncontracted: 0

List spots: 0

 

[1970crow]

Senior List

Out: Talia (delisted), Lynch (delisted), Kelly (FA), Stengle (delisted)
In: Dawson

Uncontracted: O'Connor

List spots: 3

---

Rookie List

Out: Gibbs (delisted), Mackay (retired)
In: Parnell, Murray

Uncontracted: Davis

List spots: 0

---

Cat B Rooke List

Out:
In:

Uncontracted: 0

List spots: 0

do we not have 1 rookie spot available whilst Davis remains uncontracted? I guess the same with the senior list in terms of +1 spot whilst ROC isn't contracted.

 

[Scorpus]

do we not have 1 rookie spot available whilst Davis remains uncontracted? I guess the same with the senior list in terms of +1 spot whilst ROC isn't contracted.

Not until they are officially delisted

 

[huludicidal]

Senior List

Out: Talia (delisted), Lynch (delisted), Kelly (FA), Stengle (delisted)
In: Dawson

Uncontracted: O'Connor

List spots: 3

---

Rookie List

Out: Gibbs (delisted), Mackay (retired)
In: Parnell, Murray

Uncontracted: Davis

List spots: 0

---

Cat B Rooke List

Out:
In:

Uncontracted: 0

List spots: 0

I understand your rationale here, but technically there are 4 senior list spots available right now, because O’Connor doesn’t currently occupy one of them. We have 32 contracted senior players for 2022, and 36 spots available.

Personally I think he’ll be delisted and redrafted as a rookie. Him and Butts (or Strachan) will essentially swap lists (one of them to be upgraded).

This will mean we will take 3 live picks to the National draft (or 2 plus a DFA). Live trades to be done to end up with 3 picks inside 45-50.

I also feel Davis will be delisted, meaning we take 1 pick other than O’Connor in the RD.

 

[1970crow]

Not until they are officially delisted

but it's still effectively a vacant list spot. I'd assume they're delisted until they're re-contracted in terms of predicting draft and list decisions. So we've got 2 useable picks and 5 spots to fill in total. So even splitting 1 into 2, we'll be left with 2 vacant spots after those 3 picks in the draft. So those boys are either retained or we select after multiple clubs have passed or we pick up a DFA. We could go those spots short to keep spots open for mid season draft but you'd think at least 1 would be gone already and it's unlikely that there'd not be someone on the LTI list anyway.

 

[Vader]

I understand your rationale here, but technically there are 4 senior list spots available right now, because O’Connor doesn’t currently occupy one of them. We have 32 contracted senior players for 2022, and 36 spots available.

Personally I think he’ll be delisted and redrafted as a rookie. Him and Butts (or Strachan) will essentially swap lists (one of them to be upgraded).

This will mean we will take 3 live picks to the National draft (or 2 plus a DFA). Live trades to be done to end up with 3 picks inside 45-50.

I also feel Davis will be delisted, meaning we take 1 pick other than O’Connor in the RD.

What Scorpus has written is accurate. ROC is listed as uncontracted. We currently have 3 list vacancies, until such time as ROC is delisted.

 

[1970crow]

What Scorpus has written is accurate. ROC is listed as uncontracted. We currently have 3 list vacancies, until such time as ROC is delisted.

Typical public service mentality of process over outcome. What scorpus wrote is misleading in terms of the context of this discussion. Reality is that we're making decisions over 5 currently unused spots, ROC and Davis are part of the conversation, but their technical position on the list has no meaning in the discussion. Their spots are available to be used not on them.

 

[FullyBigKPro]

Given teh success we have had over the years with the Rookie spots (Butts, Keays, Laird etc etc) - I'd be STAGGERED if we don't take two fresh rookies in over summer.

 

[1970crow]

Given teh success we have had over the years with the Rookie spots (Butts, Keays, Laird etc etc) - I'd be STAGGERED if we don't take two fresh rookies in over summer.

Much less exposed form at the moment though. I'll back in out talent and list guys whichever way they go.

 

[Scorpus]

Typical public service mentality of process over outcome. What scorpus wrote is misleading in terms of the context of this discussion. Reality is that we're making decisions over 5 currently unused spots, ROC and Davis are part of the conversation, but their technical position on the list has no meaning in the discussion. Their spots are available to be used not on them.

They're not currently unused, they are currently used, until we make a decision to delist them.

We could do a bunch of other stuff too like move senior players to the rookie list, move rookies to the senior list, and delist and pay out contracted players.

As it stands right now we have 3 senior list spots, 0 rookie list spots, with the potential for 2 further list spots if we delist uncontracted players.

 

[1970crow]

They're not currently unused, they are currently used, until we make a decision to delist them.

We could do a bunch of other stuff too like move senior players to the rookie list, move rookies to the senior list, and delist and pay out contracted players.

As it stands right now we have 3 senior list spots, 0 rookie list spots, with the potential for 2 further list spots if we delist uncontracted players.

And? How many list spots are technically empty is meaningless. What matters is how many we have to play with. And that number is 4.

 

[huludicidal]

What Scorpus has written is accurate. ROC is listed as uncontracted. We currently have 3 list vacancies, until such time as ROC is delisted.

Never said it wasn’t accurate, and what I have written is equally accurate.

 

[Vader]

Never said it wasn’t accurate, and what I have written is equally accurate.

No, what you wrote is not accurate. There are not 4 positions available, there are currently only 3. ROC does occupy a position on the senior list, until such time as he is delisted.

 

[jackster83]

Given teh success we have had over the years with the Rookie spots (Butts, Keays, Laird etc etc) - I'd be STAGGERED if we don't take two fresh rookies in over summer.

We might also leave a spot vacant for the supplementary list lodgement period and have a few undrafted/delisted players train with us over the summer.

 

[huludicidal]

No, what you wrote is not accurate. There are not 4 positions available, there are currently only 3. ROC does occupy a position on the senior list, until such time as he is delisted.

Fine, there are 4 senior contracts available, and right now, an uncontracted player still occupies a senior list position. Semantics - we’re talking about the same thing. Right now, O’Connor can’t play in 2022 because he isn’t contracted to do so, a week after the trade period has finished no less. You say he has to be delisted for that list spot to become available. I say he has to sign a contract for that list spot to be properly filled. If we never returned ROC’s calls again, he would be delisted by default. We’re both right.

Regardless of this futile discussion, it’s clearly far more likely that he doesn’t remain on the senior list from this point and that he’ll be retained as a rookie.

My bet is:

ROC delisted
Davis delisted
Butts upgraded
3 ND picks (a live trade to secure a 3rd pick inside 45-50)
2 RD picks (with 1 of them being ROC)

 

[hey shorty]

We don't need to upgrade Butts

 

[huludicidal]

We don't need to upgrade Butts

We don’t no, but if we don’t, it would mean that we would need to upgrade BOTH Butts and Strachan in 12 months time, which likely eats up a draft pick inside 80, in a draft with more exposed form.

Butts has clearly established himself as a long term player at the club, so with a low number of viable draft picks available to us in 2021 and an uncontracted O’Connor, it makes sense to upgrade Butts now, and essentially give his Rookie spot to ROC IMO. That way only 1 upgrade is required in 2022 (Strachan), but we have the same players on our senior and rookie lists combined.

 

[hey shorty]

We don’t no, but if we don’t, it would mean that we would need to upgrade BOTH Butts and Strachan in 12 months time, which likely eats up a draft pick inside 80, in a draft with more exposed form.

Butts has clearly established himself as a long term player at the club, so with a low number of viable draft picks available to us in 2021 and an uncontracted O’Connor, it makes sense to upgrade Butts now, and essentially give his Rookie spot to ROC IMO. That way only 1 upgrade is required in 2022 (Strachan), but we have the same players on our senior and rookie lists combined.

I think if the Big Red can't get a foothold in the side at some point next season he'll be off the list.

But it's a fair point you raise

 

[Apsaalooke]

Fine, there are 4 senior contracts available, and right now, an uncontracted player still occupies a senior list position. Semantics - we’re talking about the same thing. Right now, O’Connor can’t play in 2022 because he isn’t contracted to do so, a week after the trade period has finished no less. You say he has to be delisted for that list spot to become available. I say he has to sign a contract for that list spot to be properly filled. If we never returned ROC’s calls again, he would be delisted by default. We’re both right.

Regardless of this futile discussion, it’s clearly far more likely that he doesn’t remain on the senior list from this point and that he’ll be retained as a rookie.

My bet is:

ROC delisted
Davis delisted
Butts upgraded
3 ND picks (a live trade to secure a 3rd pick inside 45-50)
2 RD picks (with 1 of them being ROC)

Why are we retaining ROC? He doesn't seem to have done anything of note sofar.