List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[BunjiMac]

I think the problem with Adelaide for a while is the midfield as a group. Matt Crouch

5

Matt Crouch

Age

28

Ht

183cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.4

5star

K

12.0

4star

HB

16.4

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.8

5star

D

24.9

5star

K

9.7

4star

HB

15.1

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.4

3star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.2

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

10.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

CL

2.0

4star

would be fantastic surrounded be classy speedy ball users and some big powerful bodies.

Unfortunately all our prime midfielders are pretty vanilla and similar.

Sloane, Laird, Keays and add Crouch and you have probably the least variety in a prime midfield set in the AFL.

If the AFC keep crouch they need to commit to bringing in that variety and breaking up that monotony.

I don't think they are willing to do that.

I think the AFC feel that the current prime midfielders have been a revelation, perhaps apart from Sloane. I think they believe that Laird and Keays have been amazing and any move to relegate any of the 3 would be disrespectful.

So, the easier thing to do, and to not hurt anyones feelings, would be to test the waters with Crouch, especially given no-one has seen him for a year

That way we get to keep people happy, not offend the captain and reward those who try really hard.

The AFC way.

 

[Jirkago75]

Winning the 17 flag does not change the fact that all of those decisions were bad decisions, and still not worth it long term. If we had won more than 1 flag, then it might be different. 2016 was a lost opportunity as well. I think plenty on here were against the Gibbs trade in 2016 and 2017.

Agree to disagree on this, if we won the flag and fell down the bottom, everyone would accept it and be happy but when you lose , there is always people scrutinising every mistake. You are right with the decisions made on top of losing Lever Cameron and McGovern

 

[Redline]

That depends on the years.

2 - happy
3 - ambivalent
4+ - angry.

I can't see how we couldn't offer three. I think that's fair if we want him.

Different circumstances but guys like Murphy and Murray got two years. Surely alot comes down to demand. If Crouch was available at a reasonable price I think just about every club would take him on their list. I don't think any club would take the other two.

 

[70lethal]

We're not offering Matty $900K for 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or four years, and neither is any other list manager in full control of his faculties.
He's a $600 - $700k Max player depending on the term of the contract.

While this is true when compared to Williams and McGovern getting around $800k a good lawyer could make a strong case for Matt worth $900k.
Some guys are bloody fortunate there are list managers not in control of their faculties like Collingwood.

 

[BronCrow]

Agree to disagree on this, if we won the flag and fell down the bottom, everyone would accept it and be happy but when you lose , there is always people scrutinising every mistake. You are right with the decisions made on top of losing Lever Cameron and McGovern

I think some of those decisions were still bad ones, even with winning a flag. Didn't require hindsight to see this. Lever and Cameron were at least honest enough to not sign a new contract and then leave like McGovern did.

 

[Gtowncrow]

If he’s that good and going under the radar then perhaps both are gettable. We should be trying to figure out how.

This is a good objective.
Put it to you all... Without spending our 1&2 picks from next year, how can we position ourselves to get Horne and Roberts?

 

[Mutineer]

This is a good objective.
Put it to you all... Without spending our 1&2 picks from next year, how can we position ourselves to get Horne and Roberts?

I'd sooner position ourselves to get Roberts and 1 or both of Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley if we're set on drafting SA lads.

 

[Dangerousfield]

This is a good objective.
Put it to you all... Without spending our 1&2 picks from next year, how can we position ourselves to get Horne and Roberts?

We can't, other than tanking to win the Wooden Spoon. GC might part with pick 5 but we'd need to be creative

 

[Gtowncrow]

We can't, other than tanking to win the Wooden Spoon. GC might part with pick 5 but we'd need to be creative

Agree with the creativity needed. But if we really think these two are that good, how far should we go.
I'll start...
If we win the spoon, then, we trade laird to gold coast for their first. Maybe Frampton too as they are short of ruck options.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

2 years for Crouch is ok so long as not crazy money, which i doubt.

He is of the age group we are lacking & we miss his ball winning ability in the middle.

The issue is the other personnel in the midfield.
Laird should remain.
Sloane needs to play mainly elsewhere, preferably forward.
Keays can play both in the middle/off a wing like Sheed.
This leaves room for Schoenberg, Berry, McHenry & our 1st round pick next year.

 

[Gtowncrow]

I'd sooner position ourselves to get Roberts and 1 or both of Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley if we're set on drafting SA lads.

No problem with that as a plan. Easier to achieve too.
I understand the danger in naming a junior star as a future star because rate of physical development is a large determinant of teenage sport. Once everyone has grown up, the advantage the junior star had is gone. Then you're left with a comparison of talent. This could be the case with Horne but I haven't seen him enough to say. I'll trust you guys on that.
However, if these two kids are exemplary, I would like to think we did everything possible to get a pairing upon which our decade can flourish.
I know it's hard to achieve as all clubs want to maximise their draftees. But just think about current best 20 youngsters with these two added.

 

[Jirkago75]

I think some of those decisions were still bad ones, even with winning a flag. Didn't require hindsight to see this. Lever and Cameron were at least honest enough to not sign a new contract and then leave like McGovern did.

I agree but what I meant was if we won a flag, it would be worth it. Like the bulldogs trading for Boyd, they gave up a kings ransom but the flag made up for it.

 

[Redline]

We're not offering Matty $900K for 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or four years, and neither is any other list manager in full control of his faculties.
He's a $600 - $700k Max player depending on the term of the contract.

I agree but we should be able to offer a heaverly front loaded contract with our list.

 

[BronCrow]

I agree but what I meant was if we won a flag, it would be worth it. Like the bulldogs trading for Boyd, they gave up a kings ransom but the flag made up for it.

My recollection of Tom Boyd is that he played a great game in the GF and was probably unlucky not to win the Norm Smith, but I am not so sure he made a massive impact on them getting there in the first place. Also, he played little to no good football for the Dogs after it and retired prematurely. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as that trade was considered a kings ransom when in fact it was an ageing Ryan Griffen and pick 6, which endend up being Caleb Marchbank.

I would consider that a bad deal for both teams in the end even though the Dogs got a flag out of it. Also the Dogs had to pay a lot of money as he signed a 7 year $7 million deal at the end of 2014.

 

[Jirkago75]

My recollection of Tom Boyd is that he played a great game in the GF and was probably unlucky not to win the Norm Smith, but I am not so sure he made a massive impact on them getting there in the first place. Also, he played little to no good football for the Dogs after it and retired prematurely. Hindsight is a wonderful thing as that trade was considered a kings ransom when in fact it was an ageing Ryan Griffen and pick 6, which endend up being Caleb Marchbank.

I would consider that a bad deal for both teams in the end even though the Dogs got a flag out of it. Also the Dogs had to pay a lot of money as he signed a 7 year $7 million deal at the end of 2014.

We all want a dynasty like the Hawks or Richmond but they rarely happen, to win one is amazing and I’d put up with loses and bad decisions, . That’s the only reason we watch footy and get so excited about it every time it’s on. That’s the ultimate goal/ the only goal for a footy team

 

[morris086]

I'd sooner position ourselves to get Roberts and 1 or both of Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley if we're set on drafting SA lads.

I'm still on the Roberts and Draper train, potentially cheaper than they were looking to be a couple of months back. Wouldn't say no to Murley either.

 

[Mego Red]

If you rate our bottom guys as C+ performers it's no wonder you're so positive all the time

Who do you think are playing in our side that are 1000% worse than Greenwood or Keath?

If we still had McGovern, we could arguably be worse.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Who do you think are playing in our side that are 1000% worse than Greenwood or Keath?

Let's not get caught up in the maths

The point being made is that it's tough to judge Hamish when a bunch of his good to very good players have been traded out for veritable peanuts

 

[Mego Red]

Winning the 17 flag does not change the fact that all of those decisions were bad decisions, and still not worth it long term. If we had won more than 1 flag, then it might be different. 2016 was a lost opportunity as well. I think plenty on here were against the Gibbs trade in 2016 and 2017.

If we win a premiership, the Gibbs deal would have been 100% right.

As it was, giving up a first and a pick shuffle for Gibbs was still possibly the right decision, as when you're near a flag you have to go all in, before the moment slips past (like it has for us, West Coast and Collingwood).

 

[Mego Red]

Let's not get caught up in the maths

The point being made is that it's tough to judge Hamish when a bunch of his good to very good players have been traded out for veritable peanuts

Sure.

I think Lever was an excellent choice. Hamish had a few good players go.

The category B players were great picks, but I also agreed with our rebuilding and letting them go.

 

[1970crow]

I suppose we'll find out. 2-3 would be perfect, gives enough time for Pedlar to get up to speed, and we have Laird and Keays to move elsewhere for Schoenberg/Berry/whoever else.

That said, if its 2-3, it certainly seems like its just making sure he has a multi-year contract if FA doesn't work out.

I really don’t think 2-3 years getting up to speed in the SANFL does anything but develop an SANFL quality midfielder.

 

[1970crow]

2 - angry
3- grumpy
4+ - we've finally learnt our lesson

Any deal for 2 or 3 years will be high coin and easily trumped by a Brad style long term, low $/year deal, which will net us a poor compo pick.

4+ years would be on lower coin, and can only be trumped by a long term high $ contract (unlikely) or a shorter, high $/y deal netting us a good compo pick.

If it was me, I'd be offering a 5 year, $600k deal, front ended. If it's one year too long, that's ok, he'll be on a low wage.

If he wants more $/year, go and get it on a shorter, Daniher style deal and we can have a band 1 compo pick thanks.

That’s pretty dumb, what if he signs and we’re paying highest $ for 5 years. We need to transition 3 of our 4 midfielders out over the next 2 years so our next tilt group is ready in 4. Sloane will get an extension so we’ll have all 4 contracted for 3+ years with Matt and Laird 5 and 4. Rampant stupidity.

 

[1970crow]

Pick in the 20s >>>>>> Matt Crouch for 4+ years

I’d rather get value for him at the trade table, somewhere around 15 seems about right. But if it’s a choice between 23 and 3+ years of watching Matt, Keays, Sloane and Laird taking 100% (injury permitting) of available midfield minutes, then 23 is awesome compo.

The people supporting keeping Matt are the same that would thumbs down or laugh emoji a post wanting to force any of Keays, Laird or Sloane out of the club. They know we run a 4 person midfield and genuinely believe that every draftee mid needs 3-4 years learning their craft in the SANFL midfield. Or that half forward is a great spot whilst awaiting one of the big 4 to get injured or retire.

Happy to keep Matt as long as 2 of the current triumvirate exit the club. Don’t care which two.

 

[Disco Fox]

I'd sooner position ourselves to get Roberts and 1 or both of Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley if we're set on drafting SA lads.

As you know Hamish & co will look beyond SA borders, & that doesn't mean just to Victoria. Have you any thoughts on a couple of WA midfielders - Matthew Johnson, Neil Erasmus &, as a possible 2nd round pick, Josh Browne? Johnson seems to be supremely talented. He is 192cm & that brings me to a point regarding our current midfield - they are "height challenged"!! I would confidently say that they are the shortest midfield in the AFL. I often read comments here about balancing our midfield mix(too much sameness etc) & in agreeing with that sentiment I feel that we should draft a talented tall midfielder & not another 182cm lad.

 

[Danger in Texas]

As you know Hamish & co will look beyond SA borders, & that doesn't mean just to Victoria. Have you any thoughts on a couple of WA midfielders - Matthew Johnson, Neil Erasmus &, as a possible 2nd round pick, Josh Browne? Johnson seems to be supremely talented. He is 192cm & that brings me to a point regarding our current midfield - they are "height challenged"!! I would confidently say that they are the shortest midfield in the AFL. I often read comments here about balancing our midfield mix(too much sameness etc) & in agreeing with that sentiment I feel that we should draft a talented tall midfielder & not another 182cm lad.

Erasmus and Johnson are going a bit under the radar, I think. Both are supremely talented. It'd be a shame if the champs don't go ahead as I can see these two really shining for WA

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see WA come out and win the whole thing, they're quite deep with talent this year