List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Dangarman]

While we're being pedantic, any danger of spelling HimmelbErg's name right ever?
(Worrell too.)

O'Conner and Straun, Tillthorpe Schonberg and Scholl all liked this post.

 

[George Kramer]

Vader - Frampton is a bad footballer and we all know it but there's no way the club delists him with a year left on his deal.

We played him down back in the back of the season, because he was a worse forward than Brad Moran. But he showed he is at the very least a break glass option down back if Butts, Murray and co go down.

He'll be on the list.

Yep. They rate him enough to give him multiple games up forward even when he sucked, they obviously like him to some extent and I reckon they would want to experiment more with him in defence.

The player I can see leaving that is contracted is McAsey if he's truly homesick. Would hopefully get us a decent pick and we aren't paying out his contract. The fact we moved him up forward and have developed Frampton in his role says a lot.

 

[Dudersaurus]

Is it just me or do we seem to be incapable of cutting anyone over the age of 25 because we lack courage or want to be nice?

Sure we eventually cut people like JJ, Eddie, Lynch etc, but then offer DMac and Kelly contracts. This then forces us into "easy" cuts of young players.
ROC for example is fairly similar size to Kelly. He can't be worse in transition, so if we have to keep one, why not cut/trade Kelly and see if ROC has ability down back? But, no. We'll keep Kelly and cut ROC. And leave ourselves no room for trade-in or drafting.

The lack of turnover in people who should go in a rebuild is befuddling.

 

[Soggy2112]

O'Conner and Straun, Tillthorpe Schonberg and Scholl all liked this post.

Hearing people say Tillthorpe pisses me off more than it should.

 

[Vader]

Vader - Frampton is a bad footballer and we all know it but there's no way the club delists him with a year left on his deal.

We played him down back in the back of the season, because he was a worse forward than Brad Moran. But he showed he is at the very least a break glass option down back if Butts, Murray and co go down.

He'll be on the list.

We played him down back because he was a failed forward, and they wanted to see whether there were any redeeming features to his game, to justify keeping him on the list in 2022. His performances in defence were a massive improvement on his forward line work, but it's still a line ball decision. We have Murray, who is already better than Frampton, plus Worrell & McAsey (both of whom were re-signed this year). Frampton is excess to requirements if he's not judged to be significantly better than the projected abilities of those other players.

It depends almost entirely on how many list positions they think they will need for trading & rookie upgrades. If they decide they need an additional senior list vacancy, and wish/need to cut a contracted player, then Frampton is the obvious choice.

I'm not saying that it will happen - I'm saying that it could happen, and if it were ever going to happen then 2021 is far more likely than most other years.

 

[Vader]

Please stop saying Frampton. The rest of your points are good and that's just dumb.

If you want to say someone, at least say a player who was disappointing all year like Himmelburg, or a player that they don't seem to want to play, like Worrall.

Himmelberg showed more in the last month than Frampton did all year, and Worrell was re-signed this year.

If they do decide to cut a contracted player, then Frampton is clearly the obvious choice.

 

[Golumless]

Is it just me or do we seem to be incapable of cutting anyone over the age of 25 because we lack courage or want to be nice?

Sure we eventually cut people like JJ, Eddie, Lynch etc, but then offer DMac and Kelly contracts. This then forces us into "easy" cuts of young players.
ROC for example is fairly similar size to Kelly. He can't be worse in transition, so if we have to keep one, why not cut/trade Kelly and see if ROC has ability down back? But, no. We'll keep Kelly and cut ROC. And leave ourselves no room for trade-in or drafting.

The lack of turnover in people who should go in a rebuild is befuddling.

Have you lived under a rock in the last two years?

We've burnt our list down to a crisp.

 

[Vader]

This always intrigued me, if Kelly, Lynch and Talia all got contracts elsewhere, i.e. were free agents lost to us, would we get one compensation pick based on the collective value of the three, or one pick each?
Assuming they are worth any compensation picks, of course.

Something like Kelly is worth 3/8 of a band 5, so nothing, Lynch is also worth 3/8 of a band five, so nothing, Talia as well, so nothing. But collectively they are worth 9/8 of a band 5, so you get 1 band 5 for all three.

But hey, if all 3 got a band 4 each (end of 2nd round) we would have 4 picks in a row if Melbourne win the GF.

That's the way it was explained when FA was originally introduced - but the reality is that FA compensation picks are announced as soon as the player signs with their new club, and compensation is not aggregated.

 

[Scorpus]

Is it just me or do we seem to be incapable of cutting anyone over the age of 25 because we lack courage or want to be nice?

Sure we eventually cut people like JJ, Eddie, Lynch etc, but then offer DMac and Kelly contracts. This then forces us into "easy" cuts of young players.
ROC for example is fairly similar size to Kelly. He can't be worse in transition, so if we have to keep one, why not cut/trade Kelly and see if ROC has ability down back? But, no. We'll keep Kelly and cut ROC. And leave ourselves no room for trade-in or drafting.

The lack of turnover in people who should go in a rebuild is befuddling.

Nah we've cut lots of players in that age bracket.

The issue is we had so many of them that needed to go we couldn't realistically move them all on in a single off season

 

[WeedsMullet84]

We played him down back because he was a failed forward, and they wanted to see whether there were any redeeming features to his game, to justify keeping him on the list in 2022. His performances in defence were a massive improvement on his forward line work, but it's still a line ball decision. We have Murray, who is already better than Frampton, plus Worrell & McAsey (both of whom were re-signed this year). Frampton is excess to requirements if he's not judged to be significantly better than the projected abilities of those other players.

It depends almost entirely on how many list positions they think they will need for trading & rookie upgrades. If they decide they need an additional senior list vacancy, and wish/need to cut a contracted player, then Frampton is the obvious choice.

I'm not saying that it will happen - I'm saying that it could happen, and if it were ever going to happen then 2021 is far more likely than most other years.

Calling it now, Frampton will become a solid KPD. Nothing flash, but I've really enjoyed his performances so far, and i can see room for improvement.

Can't say i agree that Murray is already better than Frampton as a KPD, but Murray certainly has a higher ceiling, and I have no doubt that Murray will become the better defender.

What that means for Frampton, i'm not sure, but i think he'll become good enough to command a starting spot, somewhere! How that plays out in terms of game time between himself, Murray, McAsey (if he starts pulling his finger out) and Worrell, i'm not sure. Certainly a glut back there.

 

[Dudersaurus]

Have you lived under a rock in the last two years?

We've burnt our list down to a crisp.

I know we have had high turnover, but my point is that we never seem to do it until way too late, or people elect to retire or leave when we have offered them a contract that they could accept if they wanted.


2018

Kyle Cheney (del)
Harry Dear (del)
Jackson Edwards (del)
Sam Gibson (ret)
Curtly Hampton (ret)
Paul Hunter (del)
Ben Jarman (del)
Mitch McGovern (trd)
Matthew Signorello (del)

2019
Eddie Betts (trd)
Richard Douglas (del)
Cam Ellis-Yolmen (FA)
Hugh Greenwood (trd)
Paul Hunter (del)
Sam Jacobs (trd)
Josh Jenkins (trd)
Alex Keath (trd)
Andy Otten (ret)

2020
Rory Atkins (FA)
Ben Crocker (del)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Jordan Gallucci (del)
Bryce Gibbs (ret)
Kyle Hartigan (trd)
Riley Knight (del)
Myles Poholke (del)
Tyson Stengle (del)
Ayce Taylor (del)
Patrick Wilson (del)

Very few of those cut in the last few years seem to have been pushed. Those cut were generally rookies. Gallucci is probably one of few that were a mildly 'tough' call. The cuts are more picking up fallen leaves than aggressive pruning to encourage future growth.

We don't seem to "show anyone the door". We assume they know where it is and they'll let us know when they want to walk through it.

If we go to the draft with minimum live picks and a full rookie list and be unable to trade in players, that imo, is a massive fail in a rebuild.

 

[skam85]

I know we have had high turnover, but my point is that we never seem to do it until way too late, or people elect to retire or leave when we have offered them a contract that they could accept if they wanted.


2018

Kyle Cheney (del)
Harry Dear (del)
Jackson Edwards (del)
Sam Gibson (ret)
Curtly Hampton (ret)
Paul Hunter (del)
Ben Jarman (del)
Mitch McGovern (trd)
Matthew Signorello (del)

2019
Eddie Betts (trd)
Richard Douglas (del)
Cam Ellis-Yolmen (FA)
Hugh Greenwood (trd)
Paul Hunter (del)
Sam Jacobs (trd)
Josh Jenkins (trd)
Alex Keath (trd)
Andy Otten (ret)

2020
Rory Atkins (FA)
Ben Crocker (del)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Jordan Gallucci (del)
Bryce Gibbs (ret)
Kyle Hartigan (trd)
Riley Knight (del)
Myles Poholke (del)
Tyson Stengle (del)
Ayce Taylor (del)
Patrick Wilson (del)

Very few of those cut in the last few years seem to have been pushed. Those cut were generally rookies. Gallucci is probably one of few that were a mildly 'tough' call. The cuts are more picking up fallen leaves than aggressive pruning to encourage future growth.

We don't seem to "show anyone the door". We assume they know where it is and they'll let us know when they want to walk through it.

If we go to the draft with minimum live picks and a full rookie list and be unable to trade in players, that imo, is a massive fail in a rebuild.

You realise by offering a lot of these guys lowball nothing contracts we are effectively pushing them out the door, right?

 

[MarcusP2]

I know we have had high turnover, but my point is that we never seem to do it until way too late, or people elect to retire or leave when we have offered them a contract that they could accept if they wanted.


2018

Kyle Cheney (del)
Harry Dear (del)
Jackson Edwards (del)
Sam Gibson (ret)
Curtly Hampton (ret)
Paul Hunter (del)
Ben Jarman (del)
Mitch McGovern (trd)
Matthew Signorello (del)

2019
Eddie Betts (trd)
Richard Douglas (del)
Cam Ellis-Yolmen (FA)
Hugh Greenwood (trd)
Paul Hunter (del)
Sam Jacobs (trd)
Josh Jenkins (trd)
Alex Keath (trd)
Andy Otten (ret)

2020
Rory Atkins (FA)
Ben Crocker (del)
Brad Crouch (FA)
Jordan Gallucci (del)
Bryce Gibbs (ret)
Kyle Hartigan (trd)
Riley Knight (del)
Myles Poholke (del)
Tyson Stengle (del)
Ayce Taylor (del)
Patrick Wilson (del)

Very few of those cut in the last few years seem to have been pushed. Those cut were generally rookies. Gallucci is probably one of few that were a mildly 'tough' call. The cuts are more picking up fallen leaves than aggressive pruning to encourage future growth.

We don't seem to "show anyone the door". We assume they know where it is and they'll let us know when they want to walk through it.

If we go to the draft with minimum live picks and a full rookie list and be unable to trade in players, that imo, is a massive fail in a rebuild.

Douglas, Betts, Jacobs, Jenkins were all out the door stating they wanted to play on or in fact did play on. Lynch and Talia the same this year. Who's left we should have 'pushed out' as a senior player? Jake Kelly? Rory Sloane?

 

[Vader]

What that means for Frampton, i'm not sure, but i think he'll become good enough to command a starting spot, somewhere! How that plays out in terms of game time between himself, Murray, McAsey (if he starts pulling his finger out) and Worrell, i'm not sure. Certainly a glut back there.

That's where we're at now - we've brought a lot of kids onto the list, now we need to see which of them will sink & which will swim. Hopefully we will have enough swimmers to start moving forwards again.

 

[Swan97]

Just throwing this out there but has anyone thought that maybe Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

wants to be @ Port next year but due to the fact they are still active in the season he hasn't nominated them as of yet? If he wanted to be @ Adelaide surely he would have requested a trade to us by now.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Just throwing this out there but has anyone thought that maybe Jordan Dawson wants to be @ Port next year but due to the fact they are still active in the season he hasn't nominated them as of yet? If he wanted to be @ Adelaide surely he would have requested a trade to us by now.

Why would them still beingbin the finals stop him from nominating them?..

He’d only nominate them if they had shown definate interest in him..

And if so.. then its a massive positive for a team playing finals not a negative.. they arent exactly gonna lose/win a finals game because a player from another team has said he wants to come play with them!…

 

[texanmike]

Just throwing this out there but has anyone thought that maybe Jordan Dawson wants to be @ Port next year but due to the fact they are still active in the season he hasn't nominated them as of yet? If he wanted to be @ Adelaide surely he would have requested a trade to us by now.

Possibly but it’s way too early, who else other than cerra has requested a trade thus far? nobody. Anyway not getting my hopes up on Dawson and neither should anyone here.

 

[hey shorty]

Certainly possible

 

[StickerMan]

I think the Dawson situation is more to do with the fact that Sydney were looking to lock away Parker and the contracts of Dawson and Stephens were next in line, depending on the Parker contract.

Now the fun starts trying to negotiate his contract with less money at Sydney, so we should be upping our offer.

 

[crows dude]

Vader - Frampton is a bad footballer and we all know it but there's no way the club delists him with a year left on his deal.

We played him down back in the back of the season, because he was a worse forward than Brad Moran. But he showed he is at the very least a break glass option down back if Butts, Murray and co go down.

He'll be on the list.

Billy is 10 times the forward Moran was.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Billy is 10 times the forward Moran was.

Billy vs Moran vs Downsborough is a close race imho

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Billy is 10 times the forward Moran was.

10 x 0 still = 0!

 

[Mileratkinsshow]

I think the Dawson situation is more to do with the fact that Sydney were looking to lock away Parker and the contracts of Dawson and Stephens were next in line, depending on the Parker contract.

Now the fun starts trying to negotiate his contract with less money at Sydney, so we should be upping our offer.

In terms of this trade, is it too much to pay for Dawson to swap our pick 4 with their pick 12 and Dawson?



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GrommoT]

Begs the question, why not scrap the rookie list & add the 80k x average number of rookies to the total cap.

That would mean the ∀FL would have to fund the extra ~$8.6M (80x6x18) across all clubs from the TPP where they might not at present? (IDK)

 

[FR0GGY]

10 x 0 still = 0!

10 x -1 = -10