Review Adelaide v Essendon - Rd 18

[Southerntakeover]

Hence why I said his possession where 33% of them were clearance indicated he was very good in those 2 games at the start of the season as this ratio was similar to 2016/17 when he was elite. I never said he was kicking the same amount of goals in those 2 games as he has never been a goal kicking midfielder.

Just bolding stupid things doesnt make them less stupid.

He's substantially worse than he was in previous years, no one with any sense would argue otherwise. That he went from being good for a goal in 4 out of 5 games to once every month plus is a significant drop in his impact. This isnt even debatable.

 

[ABAB]

Just bolding stupid things doesnt make them less stupid.

He's substantially worse than he was in previous years, no one with any sense would argue otherwise. That he went from being good for a goal in 4 out of 5 games to once every month plus is a significant drop in his impact. This isnt even debatable.

What are you talking about? I said he was very good before his eye injury in terms of his clearance to possession ratio (back to his 2016/17 elite form) and you said he wasn't kicking goals so I told you he has never been a goal kicking midfielder as proven by his career stats. And now you are using those 3 games early in the season to say he isn't kicking the same amount of goal so has been worst then his previous years, even though he has never been a goal kicking midfielder but a high percentage clearance midfielder averaging mid 20s possession......this is Sanders lack of football knowledge logic there.

 

[Southerntakeover]

What are you talking about? I said he was very good before his eye injury in terms of his clearance to possession ratio (back to his 2016/17 elite form) and you said he wasn't kicking goals so I told you he has never been a goal kicking midfielder as proven by his career stats. And now you are using those 3 games early in the season to say he isn't kicking the same amount of goal so isn't back to his best, even though he has never been a goal kicking midfielder but a high percentage clearance midfielder averaging mid 20s possession......this is Sanders lack of football knowledge logic there.

If pretty much anyone capable of turning on a lightswitch leaves you confused, do you really think the problem is likely to be with them?

Your argument boils down to: "he was very good because he was worse than before in the one area that I've cherry picked, but please don't talk about all of the other reductions in performance". It's an argument so poor that anyone but you would be embarrassed to be offering it.

 

[ABAB]

If pretty much anyone capable of turning on a lightswitch leaves you confused, do you really think the problem is likely to be with them?

Your argument boils down to: "he was very good because he was worse than before in the one area that I've cherry picked, but please don't talk about all of the other reductions in performance". It's an argument so poor that anyone but you would be embarrassed to be offering it.

Like I told you, he is a high percentage mid 20s possession midfielder so why the hell are you saying he has been bad in those games because he didn't kick goals? It's like you forgot how good he was in the first 3 games (BOG against GCS) of the season....

 

[Southerntakeover]

Like I told you, he is a high percentage mid 20s possession midfielder so why the hell are you saying he has been bad in those games because he didn't kick goals? It's like you forgot how good he was in the first 3 games of the season.....or simply lack football knowledge.

We've already been through this. His performance has markedly declined from previous years, and your claim that the previous performance never existed or wasnt part of the reason he was good fails.

Do you have anything else, or is this going to be one of those things where you just repeat debunked arguments for 15 pages?

 

[ABAB]

We've already been through this. His performance has markedly declined from previous years, and your claim that the previous performance never existed or wasnt part of the reason he was good fails.

Do you have anything else, or is this going to be one of those things where you just repeat debunked arguments for 15 pages?

When did I say his performance hasn't been on the decline from previous years? All I said was he is a 25 possessions midfielder were 33% of them are clearance which he was doing in his first 3 games so he was very good before his eye injury, do you get it now.

 

[Southerntakeover]

When did I say his performance hasn't been on the decline from previous years? All I said was he is a 25 possessions midfielder were 33% of them are clearance which he was doing in his first 3 games so he was very good before his eye injury, do you get it now.

He's hit 25 possessions once this year, and is markedly declined in every aspect of performance since his prime. That is not "very good" no matter how often you claim it is.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

midget forward line? A 2 key forward set up is the norm. That we were intending to go in with 3 talls, all KPF/rucks, was rank stupidity.

Once Frampton was back. Plus I saw Berry lining up FF too

 

[ABAB]

He's hit 25 possessions once this year, and is markedly declined in every aspect of performance since his prime. That is not "very good" no matter how often you claim it is.

Once this year....yikes, you do lack football knowledge. And I said very good before his eye injury, BOG against CGS and 20 (7 clearances) and 21 (6 clearances) so yeah very good and around his average of 25 possession (6 clearance) in 2016/17 when he was elite.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Can you make your mind up about what your argument is? Vaciliating between "I'm not arguing he's like he was in 2016/17", then immediately afterwards saying that he's around that performance level at that speed will get you whiplash.

22 is not "around" 25. It's a 12 percent reduction. A substantial drop. Meanwhile, compared to 2017 he's 0.6 goals, 2.8 tackles, 1.5 clearances worse.

No one but you thinks that there is any comparison whatsoever- hint: it's not because you're a secret genius.

 

[WetCrow1991]

Can you make your mind up about what your argument is? Vaciliating between "I'm not arguing he's like he was in 2016/17", then immediately afterwards saying that he's around that performance level at that speed will get you whiplash.

22 is not "around" 25. It's a 12 percent reduction. A substantial drop. Meanwhile, compared to 2017 he's 0.6 goals, 2.8 tackles, 1.5 clearances worse.

No one but you thinks that there is any comparison whatsoever- hint: it's not because you're a secret genius.

Nevermind the quality of the touches he does get are complete arse and anyone with two eyes and a handful of functioning neurons should be able to see this.

 

[ABAB]

Can you make your mind up about what your argument is? Vaciliating between "I'm not arguing he's like he was in 2016/17", then immediately afterwards saying that he's around that performance level at that speed will get you whiplash.

22 is not "around" 25. It's a 12 percent reduction. A substantial drop. Meanwhile, compared to 2017 he's 0.6 goals, 2.8 tackles, 1.5 clearances worse.

No one but you thinks that there is any comparison whatsoever- hint: it's not because you're a secret genius.

Read my initial post that you responded to, I have always said his performance for the first 3 games of this season were very good and statistically as good with his possession to clearance ratio from 2016/17 number and not his numbers for the entire 2021 season which you have been using.......and if you use the average of the 3 games like you are comparing his entire 2017 and 2021 season average, he would be averaging 25 possession (8 clearances) so very good before his eye injury.

 

[ABAB]

Nevermind the quality of the touches he does get are complete arse and anyone with two eyes and a handful of functioning neurons should be able to see this.

BOG against CGS in his 3rd game of the season after his first few games where he was starting to get back to his best with most of his possession clearances....so yes, very good in the first 3 games of the season.

 

[CrowBloke]

He is the traditional ruckman and lacks athleticism, but he needs to make up for that in taking grabs at critical times

Traditional ruckman = lacks athleticism? I have to disagree.
I have a biased fan's wistful memories of Shaun Rehn who was wiry and athletic and tapped the ball down the throats of McLeod/Edwards/Goodwin et al more times than I can remember (probably fewer times than I think, ha, lol@me! ) and took a lot of marks around the ground.
Of current ruckmen, Natanui, Gawn and Grundy stand out --- all extremely athletic and mobile.
I caught some of the Melbourne game and at three consecutive centre bounces Gawn tapped directly to a mid running past in great position; Oliver (twice) and Petracca. Sloane/Keays/Laird should be watching replays of Gawn and Natanui in action and the ways they connect with their mids. It was sublime ruckwork. Natanui is renowned for finding his mids too.
I'm worried about RoB, who is well below his best form.
I wonder if he's carrying a niggle. He seems slower, his ground ball gets are fewer (that's an impression), he's lumbering more slowly than he used to and his tapwork, well, it's poor. Not to mention his kicking, but you're right --- he seems to be taking fewer marks too.
Anyone got stats on RoB for us to compare, please?

 

[davos44]

Be flat.
Play with 0 intensity
Pick "one more chance" players
Work on a more lockdown play style/plan b gameplan but give away 84 points and dont score yourself.
Get Laird handballing to ROB for a wobbly hack kick forward
Use Jake Kelly

29

Jake Kelly

Age

29

Ht

190cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.6

4star

MG

157.8

2star

D

8.1

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

104.1

2star

D

14.8

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

4.2

5star

MG

107.0

2star

or Jordan Butts as your exit kick out of D50
There are 3 Essendon players down the line against Murphy? Catch Murph! hehe, ohh they caught it, your turn Ned.

Okay we have the ball on Centre wing, hang on, wait... okay kick it to Jimmy on the half volley so we have someone to blame for our failure.

 

[CrowBloke]

... Work on a more lockdown play style/plan b gameplan but give away 84 points and dont score yourself.

Loved your deadpan sarcasm; unfortunately, whole post is all too true.
A lot of it is on the players, injuries notwithstanding, with so many non-contributors.
However, the game style (especially in the first half) is on Nicks. It's as if he's saying "OK, we're going to lose this, but let's not lose it by too much", which is negative Coaching.
If they're going to lose by around 10 goals anyway, send them out there to have a red-hot crack instead of the garbage chip-chip style that flattened them anyway.

 

[Interloperer]

I wonder if he's carrying a niggle. He seems slower, his ground ball gets are fewer (that's an impression), he's lumbering more slowly than he used to and his tapwork, well, it's poor. Not to mention his kicking, but you're right --- he seems to be taking fewer marks too.
Anyone got stats on RoB for us to compare, please?

according to AFLTables most of his stats are narrowly up on last year, so narrowly down proportionally with the increased game time.
The biggest shifts are:
* more clearances and "one-percenters", less tackles
* Marks down, Contested Marks down even further. But not dramatically so
* A much higher proportion of his possessions are contested.
* Paradoxically, "Clangers" are also down

 

[CrowBloke]

The biggest shifts are:
* more clearances and "one-percenters", less tackles
* Marks down, Contested Marks down even further. But not dramatically so
* A much higher proportion of his possessions are contested.
* Paradoxically, "Clangers" are also down

Great, thanks for that; very surprising data.
I'm most worried by his tapwork, but some of that might be due to mids' poor positioning/communication.

 

[1970crow]

Nevermind the quality of the touches he does get are complete arse and anyone with two eyes and a handful of functioning neurons should be able to see this.

It's what happens when players lose faith in their body. Disposal is rushed and they stop taking on tacklers so more of their disposal sell teammates into trouble. So quality of the possession drops along with the count. It's rank stupidity for him to still be playing, let alone increasing his TOG by 12% over the last 2 games. 89% is enormous minutes for any midfielder, let alone one that doesn't rotate through a less demanding role at all.

 

[1970crow]

Read my initial post that you responded to, I have always said his performance for the first 3 games of this season were very good and statistically as good with his possession to clearance ratio from 2016/17 number and not his numbers for the entire 2021 season which you have been using.......and if you use the average of the 3 games like you are comparing his entire 2017 and 2021 season average, he would be averaging 25 possession (8 clearances) so very good before his eye injury.

Why do you think a high clearance to possession ratio is a good thing. It's not. Having your possession total reduce 2hilst clearance numbers don't just means you're get less possessions around the ground. You're just making s**t up to support this flawed belief that he was good in rounds 1 and 2. Based on your idiotic belief, a 6 clearance game from 6 possessions is better than 5 clearances from 20 possessions. It's infuriating that you can't understand such a simple concept. I guess you wouldn't have noticed that Thommo's highest clearance to disposal ratios were in 2015 and 2016. Do you want to hazard a guess as to what he was doing in 2017?

 

[ABAB]

Why do you think a high clearance to possession ratio is a good thing. It's not. Having your possession total reduce 2hilst clearance numbers don't just means you're get less possessions around the ground. You're just making sh*t up to support this flawed belief that he was good in rounds 1 and 2. Based on your idiotic belief, a 6 clearance game from 6 possessions is better than 5 clearances from 20 possessions. It's infuriating that you can't understand such a simple concept. I guess you wouldn't have noticed that Thommo's highest clearance to disposal ratios were in 2015 and 2016. Do you want to hazard a guess as to what he was doing in 2017?

Clearance are impact possession and not handball to stationary player or chip kick backward and Sloane was averaging 25 possessions and 8 of them clearance in the first 3 games so he was very good before his eye injury and using your example 6 clearances from 6 possession (100% possessions to clearance ratio) is way better than 0 clearance from 6 possession (0% possessions to clearance ratio).

 

[jackster83]

Watched the Doedee injury again.

Pretty disgusting that Seed was the only team mate who bothered to go check he was okay.

 

[Murray2503]

Watched the Doedee injury again.

Pretty disgusting that Seed was the only team mate who bothered to go check he was okay.

Pretty poor as well that Jones didn't scream at Doedee to back away from the contest. Team mates are meant to be looking after one another. He did nothing and allowed Doedee to get smashed. In saying that Doedee should have seen the players coming and there was no benefit going for that ball.

Ridley when being interviewed about the incident answered that Essendon are coached to call a team mate away from a similar contest.

 

[JP Sauce]

Sloane was one of the years most improved players up until he got hurt... was a beast on the inside. He aint quite done yet.

Can’t teach an old dog new tricks? The 10 most improved players in the AFL this season

Fading star’s career jump-start; Bomber’s stunning resurgence: Top 10 most improved in the AFL

www.foxsports.com.au

I remember when I worked on the checkout at Coles they gave out gift vouchers for "most improved" scan rate. Easy money! Just be terrible for one period, great for the next - get a voucher. Rinse and repeat for 6 months until they finally caught on and changed how the gift cards were awarded.

Sloane having a dumpster fire of a 2020 and improving to meh in 2021 is a big improvement, sure. Doesn't mean he's had a good 2021.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Pretty poor as well that Jones didn't scream at Doedee to back away from the contest. Team mates are meant to be looking after one another. He did nothing and allowed Doedee to get smashed. In saying that Doedee should have seen the players coming and there was no benefit going for that ball.

Ridley when being interviewed about the incident answered that Essendon are coached to call a team mate away from a similar contest.

Given how Doedee plays, he would not have pulled out if called out to be a team mate.

He probably needs to consider his actions in these types of scenarios as getting himself injured too often. Agree that team mates should be communicating better.