Do you honestly think we would have beaten Collingwood with Bellchambers?
Preview Round 8: Adelaide vs Essendon, Adelaide Oval, Sunday 26/07/2020, 1:05 PM AEST
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eth-dog
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I don't know. However I do know that Phillips has been comprehensively outpointed in the two games since. In his 3 games so far I'd have said his direct opponent has been best on for the opposition fairly comfortably each time. Yeah that was mitigated against Collingwood with his second efforts but let's not pretend he's playing at an acceptable AFL standard at this point.
As I said earlier, I wasn't expecting either to get close to O'Brien around the ground, but it makes sense to me to play the ruckman who actually puts our midfielders into space. I know people want someone who impacts around the ground but the fact of the matter is that neither Bellchambers nor Phillips will do that effectively, Draper is probably another 1-2 weeks away and will probably need to have a genuine second ruck who's better than Smack for his first couple of games anyway, and Crauford and Bryan are probably too raw at this stage of their careers. We have a bloke who is more cooked than a steak that's been on the BBQ for an hour and a guy who's played 44 games in 9 years on an AFL list.
In his last 8 games his direct opponent has averaged 19.75 possessions. Tom Hickey is what I'd call a solid back up ruck at best but even he had 19 against Phillips last year. Scott Lycett is a mid tier AFL ruck and he had 25 touches and 10 clearances against Phillips.
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I’ll weigh into the Bellchambers debate. He’s s**t.
Bellchambers vsPhillips. 2020 averages.
Hit outs: 27 vs 23
Clearances: 2 vs 4
No idea of this talk of needing TBC to win more hit outs to advantage. He may win a couple more, but is worse in every other aspect of the game.
Bellchambers vsPhillips. 2020 averages.
Hit outs: 27 vs 23
Clearances: 2 vs 4
No idea of this talk of needing TBC to win more hit outs to advantage. He may win a couple more, but is worse in every other aspect of the game.
Bellchambers is a mile off AFL level. But anyway, he fits in this week. Reckon this is possibly the weakest side we’ve fielded since 2016.
Match-fit, in solid AFL form? Hurley, Saad, Ridley, Merrett, Ham, Tippa, Smith, Parish, McGrath. That’s 9 players. And even a couple of them aren’t exactly lighting the place on fire at the moment.
The rest are in average to very poor form, coming off injury breaks or just plain not up to it. We are ridiculous unders at $1.55. This is a very poor side.
Match-fit, in solid AFL form? Hurley, Saad, Ridley, Merrett, Ham, Tippa, Smith, Parish, McGrath. That’s 9 players. And even a couple of them aren’t exactly lighting the place on fire at the moment.
The rest are in average to very poor form, coming off injury breaks or just plain not up to it. We are ridiculous unders at $1.55. This is a very poor side.
TheGreatBarryB
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Phillips was good against the Pies and absolutely invisible last two games. Prefer a fresh TBC
See TBC is visible just as the Eureka Tower is visible. Also has the same mobility.
TheGreatBarryB
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TBC has beaten good ruckmen, Phillips never has. We better hope Draper is decent or we’re in deep s**t
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Pantskyle
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By that logic, let’s bring in Tim Watson because he has beaten his opponents.
TheGreatBarryB
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Can he ruck?
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Pantskyle
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Sorry, let’s go Madden.
What they all have in common is that they are no longer viable AFL players.
We both can agree on the bolded.
TBC is so cooked that we're essentially playing with a man down outside of ruck contests. I don't know why we'd wilfully put ourselves in that position. Hopefully he can give us something until Draper is ready.
Phillips has had a rough time, but he played Grundy, Goldstein and English. They are 3 of the best ruckmans this year. For a stop-gap ruckman, that's going to be difficult. If you want a preview of how TBC would have played Grundy, please refer to the round 23 game last year.
Cmon now. Let's stick to the argument of TBC > Phillips for hitouts to advantage.
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Pantskyle
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He’s absolutely better than TBC in that regard. Get off the cones.
TheGreatBarryB
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The Pies game was his first in 8 weeks and we rushed him back because we were rightly scared of Zac Clarke playing in the final.
TheGreatBarryB
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Plus also held his own against Grundy in last years Anzac Day clash
eth-dog
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His opponents over the past 2 years have averaged 19.75 disposals, 4.88 marks. Phillips has averaged 10.25 and 3.25 respectively. He's no good around the ground yet people are up in arms because he's perceived to put in more effort.
Okay, worded that poorly. Both are varying degrees of s**t in this regard. One actually hits the ball to advantage though.
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Pantskyle
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No, Phillips is better than TBC in that area. There are other areas that Phillips is better than TBC.
But sure TBC can tap. Clap clap.
These are the sort of games this club should be winning by a large margin if we are to be taken seriously, the percentage booster clashes if you like. That killer instinct that crushes the opponent is sorely missing.
In truth these games are nervous slogs that make us look like a deer in the headlights and the opposition knows it. Has to be a mental application thing. The lack of a real hard nut type of player doesn't help either IMO. Was hoping Townsend might have provided that.
Anyway, hoping for a percentage booster crushing but expecting a scrappy win or a dishonorable loss that kickstarts the Crows season.
In truth these games are nervous slogs that make us look like a deer in the headlights and the opposition knows it. Has to be a mental application thing. The lack of a real hard nut type of player doesn't help either IMO. Was hoping Townsend might have provided that.
Anyway, hoping for a percentage booster crushing but expecting a scrappy win or a dishonorable loss that kickstarts the Crows season.
eth-dog
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You say better, but better doesn't mean good. He's still s**t in this regard. So what we have is one bloke who is s**t around the ground but is a very good tap ruckman, and another bloke who is less s**t around the ground but still s**t and isn't a good tap ruckman.
Like. We have two ruckman who are s**t around the ground. I'd prefer the one who's actually good at something rather the one who isn't good at anything.
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They aren’t even around the ground. Phillips chases, tackles and influences contests more than TBC. He is taking some contested marks. It’s a bit weird to be so insistent that it’s otherwise. TBCs best tap work certainly wasn’t apparent in the matches we saw this year.
boncer34
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Yeah Eth TB hasn't be a very good tap ruckman this year.
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Pantskyle
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Phillips is just better than TBC.
TBC will be remembered as the better ruckman over the journey, justifiably.
But right now TBC is plain old crap.
Phillips was thumped in the hitouts by Grundy - no shame in that - and yes, that was absolutely mitigated by his second efforts and mobility. Bellchambers would have been a stump that night.
Goldstein beat Phillips in the hitouts, 30 - 28, so I would say that's negligible. When you add McKernan to that, we actually won the hitouts against North.
English beat Phillips comprehensively, and Phillips' efforts around the ground were putrid. So was the rest of the team's. Phillips also isn't seasoned enough to play with the effort he had been, week in week out - he'd just played Grundy and Goldstein, hence needing now to be managed, I think.
I don't have any qualms with that. I'm just saying that a fresh Phillips is my preferred option. He contests the ball. There will be more of those than there will hitouts, and he'll win some of those as well.
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boncer34
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Belly averages 6.7 hit outs to advantage this season. Phillips averages 5.
So the argument is being made that extra 1.7 makes up for losing 2.3 disposals, 2 marks, 1.6 tackles, 1 inside 50, 2 clearances and 68 metres gained?
Yeah, nah. Phillips has been pantsed but he's still been better than Bellchambers while doing so.
So the argument is being made that extra 1.7 makes up for losing 2.3 disposals, 2 marks, 1.6 tackles, 1 inside 50, 2 clearances and 68 metres gained?
Yeah, nah. Phillips has been pantsed but he's still been better than Bellchambers while doing so.
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