Adelaide Vs North - The start of their rebuilds

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the big lebowski

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2006
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Over the whole course of a disjointed and strange year, these two teams were the clear bottom 2. Both teams were close to the top 8 in 2019, and both had first year coaches in 2020. So on the face of it, it seems that they are a good comparison.

There is a consensus that both clubs are at the start of a long rebuild, and fair enough. And to their credit they have both pushed older players out the door in favour of improving their draft hand, in addition to picking up guys from other clubs.

North also don't have a coach right now.

But list wise, who do you think is better positioned at the start of the rebuild?

Obviously we don't who clubs will pick in a months time, but both clubs have great draft hands (all be it the crows is better).

Notable 23ish and under

Adelaide


Pick 1, 9, 22, 23 and probably a solid bunch of academy later round picks
Jackson Hately, Fischer McAsey, Schoenberg, Josh Worrell (Age 19)
Chayce Jones, Ned Mchenry, Will Hammill, (Age 20)
Darcy Fogarty, Andrew Mcpherson, (Age 21)
Jordan Gallucci, Elliot Himmelberg, Reily Obrien, (Age 22)
Wayne Milera, Tom Doedee, (Age 23)

North Melbourne

Picks 2, 11, 30, 39
Flynn Perez, Charlie Comben, Jack Mahony (age 19)
Tarryn Thomas, Bailey Scott, Curtis Taylor, Atu Bosenavulagi (age 20)
LDU, Jaidyn Stephenson, Will Walker, Kyron Hayden, Tristan Xerri, (Age 21)
Jy Simpkin, Nick Larkey, Cam Zurhaar (Age 22)
Ben Mckay (Age 22)

So, at the start or close enough to of the clubs rebuilds, how are both teams placed in terms of young talent?

From a North perspective, its actually an exciting time. I've never seen a full rebuild using the draft, and surely it will have ups and downs, but to think we will be able to add the most elite of elite juniors over the next 2 years, to the talent assembled above, i can't help but be optimistic for the future.
 

the Ziebull

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Nov 14, 2010
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I wouldn’t swap any of those crows players for LDU, Stephenson, Tarryn Thomas, Curtis Taylor, Jy Simpkin, Cam zurhaar or nick Larkey
 

Danger in Texas

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This is going to overwhelmingly in favour of NM

Despite that, I think we’ve got some underrated young talent. You forgot Lachie Sholl and Keays for instance. McPherson, Schoenberg and Hamill all showed when they were in the side why they’re exciting players. Himmelberg really kicked on this year, too, and the likes of Fogarty and Jones have shown enough to me that they’ll be good in time

I’m very happy with how we’re going, but yes on paper NM’s talent is real solid
 

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the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
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Also assuming both clubs finish bottom next year we are both going to get a gun mid- probably better than anyone in this draft

Jason Horne (SA) and Tyler Sonsie (VIC) lock them in now pick 1 and 2
 

Franc de Borges

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Watched a bit of both teams this year due to being in lockdown. Both have good young talent with North perhaps slightly ahead, although I’d back the Crows to rise quicker (genuine home ground advantage is huge). Things can change pretty quickly - Adelaide finished on top three seasons ago.

The great unknown is the coaching situation. Not sure about Nicks and a couple of late wins doesn’t diminish how bad they were, while given what we now know, surely North’s season was compromised by Shaw’s unfortunate circumstances.
 

master bate

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 13, 2006
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North are definitely stronger from 20-23 but the Crows have a better senior core.

Veterans 30+: Sloane, Walker, Lynch
Quality: Smith, Laird, M Crouch, O'Brien, Talia
Useful: Seedsman, Brown, Kelly, McAdam

Veterans 30+: Goldstein, Tarrant, Hall
Quality: Cunnington, McDonald
Useful: Ziebell, Polec, Walker, Anderson, Dumont, Corr
Meh: Atley, Garner, Turner, EVW (injury)

North might have a better chance to get an elite core together but Adelaide - even though this year was a disaster - look better placed in the short term to create a nice development culture that doesn't over rely on youth.
 

big_e

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Apr 28, 2008
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Over the whole course of a disjointed and strange year, these two teams were the clear bottom 2. Both teams were close to the top 8 in 2019, and both had first year coaches in 2020. So on the face of it, it seems that they are a good comparison.

There is a consensus that both clubs are at the start of a long rebuild, and fair enough. And to their credit they have both pushed older players out the door in favour of improving their draft hand, in addition to picking up guys from other clubs.

North also don't have a coach right now.

But list wise, who do you think is better positioned at the start of the rebuild?

Obviously we don't who clubs will pick in a months time, but both clubs have great draft hands (all be it the crows is better).

Notable 23ish and under

Adelaide


Pick 1, 9, 22, 23 and probably a solid bunch of academy later round picks
Jackson Hately, Fischer McAsey, Schoenberg, Josh Worrell (Age 19)
Chayce Jones, Ned Mchenry, Will Hammill, (Age 20)
Darcy Fogarty, Andrew Mcpherson, (Age 21)
Jordan Gallucci, Elliot Himmelberg, Reily Obrien, (Age 22)
Wayne Milera, Tom Doedee, (Age 23)

North Melbourne

Picks 2, 11, 30, 39
Flynn Perez, Charlie Comben, Jack Mahony (age 19)
Tarryn Thomas, Bailey Scott, Curtis Taylor, Atu Bosenavulagi (age 20)
LDU, Jaidyn Stephenson, Will Walker, Kyron Hayden, Tristan Xerri, (Age 21)
Jy Simpkin, Nick Larkey, Cam Zurhaar (Age 22)
Ben Mckay (Age 22)

So, at the start or close enough to of the clubs rebuilds, how are both teams placed in terms of young talent?

From a North perspective, its actually an exciting time. I've never seen a full rebuild using the draft, and surely it will have ups and downs, but to think we will be able to add the most elite of elite juniors over the next 2 years, to the talent assembled above, i can't help but be optimistic for the future.
North's rebuild started in 2016 by cutting Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Firrito, Thomas, Hansen and Swallow over a two year period, and having our earliest draft pick for about 15 years. Some of those early picks have had a lot of senior footy, and in key positions (Simpkin was in the middle a lot this year), we're more advanced than people think. By having only two picks inside the top 30, and reshaping the age demographic by trades instead, it shows Rebuild 2.0 isn't the traditional bottom-out variety.
 

the big lebowski

Norm Smith Medallist
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North's rebuild started in 2016 by cutting Harvey, Petrie, Dal Santo, Firrito, Thomas, Hansen and Swallow over a two year period, and having our earliest draft pick for about 15 years. Some of those early picks have had a lot of senior footy, and in key positions (Simpkin was in the middle a lot this year), we're more advanced than people think. By having only two picks inside the top 30, and reshaping the age demographic by trades instead, it shows Rebuild 2.0 isn't the traditional bottom-out variety.
It’s a good point, because 2017 was definitely a year down the bottom that netted us LDU. But it wasn’t fully embraced.

We made massive offers to senior players after that. Dusty was worth it but kelly, gaff, and de goey we’re wrong moves in hindsight. Then we traded out a first for Polec in a super draft rather than trading up or trading out the pick for the following year.

We also took too long in playing Larkey and McKay.

What we are doing now is light and day different from what we did after 2016.
 

shintemaster

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It’s a good point, because 2017 was definitely a year down the bottom that netted us LDU. But it wasn’t fully embraced.

We made massive offers to senior players after that. Dusty was worth it but kelly, gaff, and de goey we’re wrong moves in hindsight. Then we traded out a first for Polec in a super draft rather than trading up or trading out the pick for the following year.

We also took too long in playing Larkey and McKay.

What we are doing now is light and day different from what we did after 2016.
Spot on. We started (and it has definitely given us a leg up for this year) however that two years of wandering in the wilderness is a bit of lost opportunity. Of course, by the looks of things from the outside in the previous regime including Scott were simply not capable of addressing the list gaps productively so it's kind of an irrelevant point. We're at where we are and there are a few big bonuses on the list from the half hearted attempt a few years ago - Simpkin, LDU & McKay are big wins from that period and Thomas was a big bonus as well. Very positive direction now which is all you can ask for.
 
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1970crow

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Jun 7, 2011
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Our rebuild is done, we'll be selecting our most senior group striving for 8th. We just re-signed David Mackay. When we fail, it won't be because we've prioritised youth.
 

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Elmer_Judd

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Jul 25, 2019
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I wouldn’t swap any of those crows players for LDU, Stephenson, Tarryn Thomas, Curtis Taylor, Jy Simpkin, Cam zurhaar or nick Larkey
Agree with all of those names bar Curtis Taylor.

Think the Crows have more young talent on their list than most think, they just need time and exposure at AFL level.

The good news is that both teams have a lot better youth on their list than Geelong or Hawthorn.

Least the Cats will have a couple more cracks at the flag, but I really don't know what the hell the Hawks are doing at all.
 

Ahern2Boof

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Aug 13, 2012
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A lot of Adelaide's rebuild will hinge on Chayce Jones and Ned McHenry, two first round draft picks from 2018. Both have been massive disappointments so far, although Jones has shown very small glimpses. Happy to cut McHenry some slack, not sure if he battled injury in his first year at the club or not. But those two would want to get their skates on in 2021.
 

the Ziebull

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A lot of Adelaide's rebuild will hinge on Chayce Jones and Ned McHenry, two first round draft picks from 2018. Both have been massive disappointments so far, although Jones has shown very small glimpses. Happy to cut McHenry some slack, not sure if he battled injury in his first year at the club or not. But those two would want to get their skates on in 2021.
The early stuff I’ve seen of Jones from crows is deer in headlights stuff but it’s still early so has time to become decent for them
 

Off Tap

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If you can get some luck and really nail the next couple of drafts then you can be looking at finals by 2023.

I guess now's not a bad time to be bottoming out with some good young prospects in the next 2 drafts.
 

Freomaniac

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Goin' to be an interesting 2-4 years at both clubs.

Crows always have historically have pride in being competitive.

Only 3 times the crows have had a period of not making finals for 3 years in a row. That was the 1994-6 period and the current period. In their 30 year history prior to 2020, crows have only finished bottom 4 only twice. In 2011 when they finished 14th out of 17th and 1999 when they finished 13th.

This year they got the spoon and pick 1. But unlike North, got another 1st rounder and 2nd rounder due to trades.

It looks weird seeing the crows not making finals for 4-5 years in a row. I don't see them making finals next season or in 2022 unless there is a massive improvement in their youth and their fringe players.
 

radiojake

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Happy to cut McHenry some slack, not sure if he battled injury in his first year at the club or not.
He had a back injury and was involved in a minor car accident that set him back alot - couple of bags of 4 goals in sanfl games but large part of Crows board concerned his skills outside of being a pest may not translate to AFL

Had a set shot from 45 and didn't make the distance this year which was concerning
 

The 747

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With North it depends on the coach they get. They are better than they showed this year especially near the end.

Crows jury is out, late in the season did they start getting it together or did it happen because there was no pressure.

Both clubs still have admin problems, Crows admin has been well discussed but North admin are not flash either.
 

Pykie

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Sep 17, 2006
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With North it depends on the coach they get. They are better than they showed this year especially near the end.

Crows jury is out, late in the season did they start getting it together or did it happen because there was no pressure.

Both clubs still have admin problems, Crows admin has been well discussed but North admin are not flash either.
Is that you Damo?

What admin issues do we have?
 

PJays

Senior List
Nov 2, 2020
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Have North hurt their rebuild with some moves over the past few years?

I thought they'd go into a full hard rebuild after 2016, when it was clear the era was over, and they'd let go a bunch of old guys- some of whom appeared to have footy left in them like Harvey and Dal Santo

Then, two years later, in 2018 they went after a number of mature players- Polek, Pittard, Tyson (Aged 27, 26 and 25 at the time). That seemed odd to me. Bring in one sure. But all these guys at once- when they're supposed to be developing young talent and looking 3 or 4 years ahead?

Now, 2 years after that, they clean house letting 11 players go.

We're talking about a rebuild, but they haven't made finals for the past 4 seasons already. Shouldn't they already be well into the rebuild and starting to come out the other side?
 

the Ziebull

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2010
20,682
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Have North hurt their rebuild with some moves over the past few years?

I thought they'd go into a full hard rebuild after 2016, when it was clear the era was over, and they'd let go a bunch of old guys- some of whom appeared to have footy left in them like Harvey and Dal Santo

Then, two years later, in 2018 they went after a number of mature players- Polek, Pittard, Tyson (Aged 27, 26 and 25 at the time). That seemed odd to me. Bring in one sure. But all these guys at once- when they're supposed to be developing young talent and looking 3 or 4 years ahead?

Now, 2 years after that, they clean house letting 11 players go.

We're talking about a rebuild, but they haven't made finals for the past 4 seasons already. Shouldn't they already be well into the rebuild and starting to come out the other side?
From 2017 on we started the rebuild but the moves of 2018 offseason went against it however all we gave up that offseason was a first rounder that was going to be absorbed by the Tarryn Thomas bid anyway

We now have a big stockpile of under 23 talent all coming through together and another 2 first rounders in this draft
 

Usayed Givashe

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Nov 7, 2020
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Agree with all of those names bar Curtis Taylor.

Think the Crows have more young talent on their list than most think, they just need time and exposure at AFL level.

The good news is that both teams have a lot better youth on their list than Geelong or Hawthorn.

Least the Cats will have a couple more cracks at the flag, but I really don't know what the hell the Hawks are doing at all.
Curtis Taylor > Tarryn Thomas
 

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