Adelaide Vs North - The start of their rebuilds

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Holden Hillbilly

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 8, 2004
12,160
14,440
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
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Over the whole course of a disjointed and strange year, these two teams were the clear bottom 2. Both teams were close to the top 8 in 2019, and both had first year coaches in 2020. So on the face of it, it seems that they are a good comparison.

There is a consensus that both clubs are at the start of a long rebuild, and fair enough. And to their credit they have both pushed older players out the door in favour of improving their draft hand, in addition to picking up guys from other clubs.

North also don't have a coach right now.

But list wise, who do you think is better positioned at the start of the rebuild?

Obviously we don't who clubs will pick in a months time, but both clubs have great draft hands (all be it the crows is better).

Notable 23ish and under

Adelaide


Pick 1, 9, 22, 23 and probably a solid bunch of academy later round picks
Jackson Hately, Fischer McAsey, Schoenberg, Josh Worrell (Age 19)
Chayce Jones, Ned Mchenry, Will Hammill, (Age 20)
Darcy Fogarty, Andrew Mcpherson, (Age 21)
Jordan Gallucci, Elliot Himmelberg, Reily Obrien, (Age 22)
Wayne Milera, Tom Doedee, (Age 23)

North Melbourne

Picks 2, 11, 30, 39
Flynn Perez, Charlie Comben, Jack Mahony (age 19)
Tarryn Thomas, Bailey Scott, Curtis Taylor, Atu Bosenavulagi (age 20)
LDU, Jaidyn Stephenson, Will Walker, Kyron Hayden, Tristan Xerri, (Age 21)
Jy Simpkin, Nick Larkey, Cam Zurhaar (Age 22)
Ben Mckay (Age 22)

So, at the start or close enough to of the clubs rebuilds, how are both teams placed in terms of young talent?

From a North perspective, its actually an exciting time. I've never seen a full rebuild using the draft, and surely it will have ups and downs, but to think we will be able to add the most elite of elite juniors over the next 2 years, to the talent assembled above, i can't help but be optimistic for the future.
Gallucci delisted LOL
 

Elite Master

Brownlow Medallist
May 20, 2011
10,354
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Curtis Taylor > Tarryn Thomas
Thomas has more untapped potential and should be the better player, but he has been disappointing in his output so far, could very well be Daniel Wells v2. Hope I'm wrong.
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 24, 2002
15,625
27,632
Ponderama
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North Melbourne
Thomas has more untapped potential and should be the better player, but he has been disappointing in his output so far, could very well be Daniel Wells v2. Hope I'm wrong.
If he's Daniel Wells Mk 2 we've already done as well as can reasonably be expected. Anything above that will be a massive bonus.
 

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Elite Master

Brownlow Medallist
May 20, 2011
10,354
7,882
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North Melbourne
If he's Daniel Wells Mk 2 we've already done as well as can reasonably be expected. Anything above that will be a massive bonus.
Wells did have a good career with us as it turned out but he could and should have achieved more.
 

shintemaster

Brownlow Medallist
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Wells did have a good career with us as it turned out but he could and should have achieved more.
Can debate potential til the cows come home though. How much was injury, how much coaching / development and how much is the individual? End of the day he was an amazingly gifted player that delivered exceptional football more often than not. If Thomas has a better career than Wells for North we'll be doing cartwheels.
 

AnEmptyChair

Debutant
Nov 12, 2020
89
277
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Have North hurt their rebuild with some moves over the past few years?

I thought they'd go into a full hard rebuild after 2016, when it was clear the era was over, and they'd let go a bunch of old guys- some of whom appeared to have footy left in them like Harvey and Dal Santo

Then, two years later, in 2018 they went after a number of mature players- Polek, Pittard, Tyson (Aged 27, 26 and 25 at the time). That seemed odd to me. Bring in one sure. But all these guys at once- when they're supposed to be developing young talent and looking 3 or 4 years ahead?

Now, 2 years after that, they clean house letting 11 players go.

We're talking about a rebuild, but they haven't made finals for the past 4 seasons already. Shouldn't they already be well into the rebuild and starting to come out the other side?
This is one of the biggest factors in Scott and the previous footy boss, Cam Joyce, getting the sack imo.

They recruited those 4 mature aged guys, and then halfway through the very next season went to the board and said they needed a new long-term contract to undertake a full root and branch rebuild. The strategy was a flip-flopping mess during that time.

Finally the last 12 months have seen a clear, and importantly for the fans, a clearly articulated direction. Rawlings and co outlined why they traded Brown and Higgins and delisted the 11 guys after the season, and sure, while some people disagree with it, there's now a proper long-term strategy in place.

We're lucky that we did quite well in the draft during that 2016-19 period, especially with later picks, otherwise we'd be in a lot worse spot than we are now. There's already a talented core of u23s at the club, and as a result the next two drafts will be supplementing that core instead of having to be the core itself.
 

projectv

mostly nonsense
May 27, 2017
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What admin issues do we have?
They allowed Rhyce Shaw to convince them that their list was actually good.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
13,906
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Adelaide will have the advantage of any high class SA player that wants to go home they are a shot to land.

North would always be lower down the list of higher class players destinies if they are wanting to return to VIC.
 

tonygeeks

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2016
4,075
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Adelaides kids look a little bit crappola but then again if I could predict the future I doubt I’d be wasting time talking about nothing on a footy fan site


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com
 

Elmer_Judd

#Teague2020
Jul 25, 2019
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Adelaide will have the advantage of any high class SA player that wants to go home they are a shot to land.

North would always be lower down the list of higher class players destinies if they are wanting to return to VIC.
FWIW Port Adelaide are by far the most attractive destination for the few quality SA born players who want To return home.

Also getting Stephenson is a pretty big coup for a club without a coach and seemingly in troubled waters like North (If you believe most of the media and posters here)

Once they start becoming a legit finals contender, like St Kilda, I think will have no trouble attracting good players to their club, you should also remember Aidan Corr rejected a decent offer from Hawthorn to join North.
 

daniher dynasty

All Australian
Apr 6, 2008
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FWIW Port Adelaide are by far the most attractive destination for the few quality SA born players who want To return home.

Also getting Stephenson is a pretty big coup for a club without a coach and seemingly in troubled waters like North (If you believe most of the media and posters here)

Once they start becoming a legit finals contender, like St Kilda, I think will have no trouble attracting good players to their club, you should also remember Aidan Corr rejected a decent offer from Hawthorn to join North.
Accepting that Port may be a preferable destination to Adelaide right now, that may not be the case in 2 or 3 years time, bearing in mind that rebuilds don't happen overnight. Also the Crows may have a bit more cap space over that period than Port. They certainly should have.
 

Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
13,906
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FWIW Port Adelaide are by far the most attractive destination for the few quality SA born players who want To return home.

Also getting Stephenson is a pretty big coup for a club without a coach and seemingly in troubled waters like North (If you believe most of the media and posters here)

Once they start becoming a legit finals contender, like St Kilda, I think will have no trouble attracting good players to their club, you should also remember Aidan Corr rejected a decent offer from Hawthorn to join North.
Adelaide will have more cap space than Port going forward.

Stephenson and Corr won't change the needle much.

Stephenson isn't better than Brown and hasn't kicked on like people thought he would.

Not sure I can see many A-graders wanting to go to North.

It's all going to have to come through the draft.
 

Rod Stroker

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Oct 9, 2003
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Stephenson isn't better than Brown and hasn't kicked on like people thought he would.
The bloke had glandular fever this year so am willing to cut him some slack.
As it looks now, I'd prefer to have Stephenson, RS full forward from 2 years ago, with some tricks, positional flexibility and lots of upside, over Brown. Not just on talent, but also the cap space we saved by not relenting to Brown's contract demands, that no other club in the competition got close to matching because he just wasn't worth it.
Not sure I can see many A-graders wanting to go to North.
The same was said back in 2010/11 when we were a rabble. 3 years later we had Waite, Higgins, Dal Santo all wanting to join us, where those first 2 in particular are both match winners on their day, and almost got us to a GF.
Not dissimilar to Brisbane, from where they were in 2016/17 to where they are now.
 

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Bostonian

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 9, 2015
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The bloke had glandular fever this year so am willing to cut him some slack.
As it looks now, I'd prefer to have Stephenson, RS full forward from 2 years ago, with some tricks, positional flexibility and lots of upside, over Brown. Not just on talent, but also the cap space we saved by not relenting to Brown's contract demands, that no other club in the competition got close to matching because he just wasn't worth it.
The thing is Stephenson had a lot more forward talent around him at Collingwood so he wasn't getting the best defenders go to him all of the time.

He might get the better defenders more often going to him in North's forward line now however.

So he's going to need to lift a bit and show he can stand up to that sort of focused attention.



The same was said back in 2010/11 when we were a rabble. 3 years later we had Waite, Higgins, Dal Santo all wanting to join us, where those first 2 in particular are both match winners on their day, and almost got us to a GF.
Not dissimilar to Brisbane, from where they were in 2016/17 to where they are now.
Higgins was very talented but injury prone at the time.

The other two were past their best.

Not players coming into their prime.

Lachie Neale was A grade talent when he came in.
 

WillHayward

Premiership Player
Aug 13, 2018
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I wouldn’t swap any of those crows players for LDU, Stephenson, Tarryn Thomas, Curtis Taylor, Jy Simpkin, Cam zurhaar or nick Larkey
Give it a rest.
Youd take Himmelberg McAsey and Hammil in a heartbeat.
 

WillHayward

Premiership Player
Aug 13, 2018
4,599
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Feel like Adelaide are on the right track with a fresh slate of kids.

I think North are also on the right track but still have some issues to resolve with a new coach and list churn.
 

the big lebowski

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2006
9,812
16,293
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
FWIW Port Adelaide are by far the most attractive destination for the few quality SA born players who want To return home.

Also getting Stephenson is a pretty big coup for a club without a coach and seemingly in troubled waters like North (If you believe most of the media and posters here)

Once they start becoming a legit finals contender, like St Kilda, I think will have no trouble attracting good players to their club, you should also remember Aidan Corr rejected a decent offer from Hawthorn to join North.
Stephenson was a big win. Contrary to the narrative he said he spoke to multiple clubs and chose north. He seemed connected to north with family and his time spent there previously. Not saying the 5 year contract didn’t help.

Nik Cox stated on radio this morning that North was his preference to where he gets drafted, citing a good bunch of kids coming through together.

Realistically we won’t be going after a big fish (or at least be successful) until we have a clear, sustainable path to competing for a flag. Nail this draft and the next couple and we will be way more attractive.

I actually think that the kelly, de goey, gaff offers would have been detrimental to us in the long run given we were over rating our list.
 

the big lebowski

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 4, 2006
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Higgins was very talented but injury prone at the time.

The other two were past their best.

Not players coming into their prime.

Lachie Neale was A grade talent when he came in.
Not saying I disagree with you, but if you were ranking the 18 clubs in terms of net benefit from free agency, North would definitely be closer to the top than the bottom.
 

Roobs321

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 28, 2008
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I like North's youth going forward. Their ongoing problem since Pagan is a scarcity of elite individuals to really push them over the edge. Laidley and Brad Scott were good managers but their earnest teams often came up short in the matchwinner department. They just need a few young guys to develop together beyond the plateau point and really take the horns to make North's job easier.

Think about it in Brownlow terms. Since Pagan, the only North players who have been regarded as a chance were Harvey in 2007-08 and Goldstein in the mid 10s (his best finish was =10th in 2015 despite being one of the hopefuls going in). No other North player in the last 18 years has really come close to winning it. That makes life hard year-in-year-out.
 

Pykie

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2006
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The thing is Stephenson had a lot more forward talent around him at Collingwood so he wasn't getting the best defenders go to him all of the time.

He might get the better defenders more often going to him in North's forward line now however.

So he's going to need to lift a bit and show he can stand up to that sort of focused attention.





Higgins was very talented but injury prone at the time.

The other two were past their best.

Not players coming into their prime.

Lachie Neale was A grade talent when he came in.

Stick to talking about Brighton.

Stephenson won't be getting the best defender, I'd argue our forward line has been better than Collingwoods for the last few years anyway, it's not like he's leaving a star studded group of Mason Cox, Brody Mihocek, Elliott and WHE. We have a group of quality young half forwards at least the equal of most of them. The forward line is Collingwoods achilles heal, not their strength.


Lachie Neale was far from an A grader when he left Fremantle also. He was a B grade B&F winner who was a high stats getter, he wasn't a Brownlow contender. Paul Roo's even labelled him the "worst good player" in the league because of his defensive liability back then in his final year at Fremantle.
 
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Freomaniac

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May 3, 2007
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Gallucci delisted LOL
Yep..... All clubs had used 1st rounders on sub standard kids.

Gallucci was a Victorian that they used a late 1st rounder on.

Could of easily got Brennan Cox who Freo got at pick 40ish.

Plays CHF and CHB. Comes from Woodville west Torrens in the SANFL too.
 

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