Adelaide Vs North - The start of their rebuilds

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Freomaniac

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This is going to overwhelmingly in favour of NM

Despite that, I think we’ve got some underrated young talent. You forgot Lachie Sholl and Keays for instance. McPherson, Schoenberg and Hamill all showed when they were in the side why they’re exciting players. Himmelberg really kicked on this year, too, and the likes of Fogarty and Jones have shown enough to me that they’ll be good in time

I’m very happy with how we’re going, but yes on paper NM’s talent is real solid
I'm worried about the crows tall defender stocks.

Talia leaves, you got Dodee who can play CHB even if he's 188 CM. McAsey and Brown need games too.

Hoping the crows get a tall defender inthe SANFL in this year's draft.
 

Danger in Texas

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I'm worried about the crows tall defender stocks.

Talia leaves, you got Dodee who can play CHB even if he's 188 CM. McAsey and Brown need games too.

Hoping the crows get a tall defender inthe SANFL in this year's draft.
Defender-wise, we’ve obviously got McAsey who will get a lot of games next year. Jordan Butts and Josh Worrell (although he’s more of a utility) are internally highly rated as well. Borlase also coming to us in the draft

But I agree that our overall tall defensive stocks are quite inexperienced, yes. Will be a big year for the above mentioned guys, need to try and cement their place
 

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Danger in Texas

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I like what Nicks is doing his got a plan and vision and another 4 great picks this year.Aslong his allowed to do his job he will get the club back up, but Ricciuto needs to keep away club needs to put him in his place to much influence.
Yep. Nicks and Kelly seem to have a decent handle on things (particularly the former), Roo on the other hand...

And I’ll be the first to defend Kelly even though most are already calling for his head after the Crouch situation. I do think Kelly is a much more mature head than Burton, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now
 

Freomaniac

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Defender-wise, we’ve obviously got McAsey who will get a lot of games next year. Jordan Butts and Josh Worrell (although he’s more of a utility) are internally highly rated as well. Borlase also coming to us in the draft

But I agree that our overall tall defensive stocks are quite inexperienced, yes. Will be a big year for the above mentioned guys, need to try and cement their place
well Hartigan leaving opened up a vacancy at centre half back.

That means Daniel Talia is the experienced tall defender bat full back.

Dodee plays 3rd tall at a back pocket or half back flank.

That means Fraser McAsey can Jordan Butts, who are both 20 years old can rotate that CHB spot.

Depends on the AFL fixture both can play 8-10 games each next season.
 

Jcpdragonx

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It’s impossible to tell, 80% of these guys aren’t close to their ceiling. For our guys I think the best two will be Hately and McAsey. This draft will probably decide who ends up better off.
 

Pykie

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It’s impossible to tell, 80% of these guys aren’t close to their ceiling. For our guys I think the best two will be Hately and McAsey. This draft will probably decide who ends up better off.
I highly doubt it.

From our perspective if we pick up 1 or 2 players on the same level as Simpkin, LDU, we will be doing well.

This draft matters alot, but it's not going to define us.

As has been stated before, we have a good base to build off, if we nail this draft then it will be an excellent base rather than good.
 

Jcpdragonx

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Depends if the last part of the season was the players following his instructions or just that all the pressure was off.

I recall distinctly the Dogs game, if that midfield was playing to instructions there he has no clue and will not make it. But if they were going into business for themselves that is different. I don't think I have ever seen a team - when losing - leaving a player like Bontempelli alone in the forward half of the ground consistently all game.
We had no match up for Bont, all 180cm guys.
 

Freomaniac

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It’s impossible to tell, 80% of these guys aren’t close to their ceiling. For our guys I think the best two will be Hately and McAsey. This draft will probably decide who ends up better off.
Depends who the crows get on draft night.

I think the crows fans know this is a 3-4 year rebuild.

Crows can potentially set up the KPP stocks for the next 10 years getting the right KPF with pick 1 and KPD with pick 10.

If crows use pick 1 on tilthorpe or Logan McDonald. They need pick 10 to get a key defender or CHF CHB Swingman in the SANFL.

They can get 2 mids with their pick 20 picks.
 

The Rocks

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Butts, Warrell, McAsey have quality, don't see a need for another good pick for KPD.

Fogerty, Himmelberg, McAdam looked impressive the last month and I really would like some elite talent in the midfield Hollands or Phillips but I think they'll go tall first.

Crows future spine already more solid than Roos to date. I feel the Roos really want us to take Thilthorpe, I do to.

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Pykie

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Butts, Warrell, McAsey have quality, don't see a need for another good pick for KPD.

Fogerty, Himmelberg, McAdam looked impressive the last month and I really would like some elite talent in the midfield Hollands or Phillips but I think they'll go tall first.

Crows future spine already more solid than Roos to date. I feel the Roos really want us to take Thilthorpe, I do to.

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I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.

Butts is a rookie with 2 games to his name and Warrell was taken 2 positions ahead of our own Charlie Comben. Both haven't made their debuts yet.

Larkey has definitely shown more to date than Fogerty and Himmelberg.

Ben McKay had a damn good season as well.

Either way, both clubs have an opportunity to build on the above significantly this year if they want to.
 

WillHayward

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It’s impossible to tell, 80% of these guys aren’t close to their ceiling. For our guys I think the best two will be Hately and McAsey. This draft will probably decide who ends up better off.
Agree - This year is huge

1 & 9 is a great opportunity. As is 2 & 11.

Will really have an impact.
 

Freomaniac

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I have seen Jordan Butts play in the SANFL and really rate his game, maybe more of an intercept rebound than 1 on 1 defender

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you go to the crows SANFL games?

Again, I haven't seen much of him besides his couple of AFL games.

If he is a good intercept defender, I guess he will play as a 2nd or 3rd tall down back
 

Golumless

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Over the whole course of a disjointed and strange year, these two teams were the clear bottom 2. Both teams were close to the top 8 in 2019, and both had first year coaches in 2020. So on the face of it, it seems that they are a good comparison.

There is a consensus that both clubs are at the start of a long rebuild, and fair enough. And to their credit they have both pushed older players out the door in favour of improving their draft hand, in addition to picking up guys from other clubs.

North also don't have a coach right now.

But list wise, who do you think is better positioned at the start of the rebuild?

Obviously we don't who clubs will pick in a months time, but both clubs have great draft hands (all be it the crows is better).

Notable 23ish and under

Adelaide


Pick 1, 9, 22, 23 and probably a solid bunch of academy later round picks
Jackson Hately, Fischer McAsey, Schoenberg, Josh Worrell (Age 19)
Chayce Jones, Ned Mchenry, Will Hammill, (Age 20)
Darcy Fogarty, Andrew Mcpherson, (Age 21)
Jordan Gallucci, Elliot Himmelberg, Reily Obrien, (Age 22)
Wayne Milera, Tom Doedee, (Age 23)

North Melbourne

Picks 2, 11, 30, 39
Flynn Perez, Charlie Comben, Jack Mahony (age 19)
Tarryn Thomas, Bailey Scott, Curtis Taylor, Atu Bosenavulagi (age 20)
LDU, Jaidyn Stephenson, Will Walker, Kyron Hayden, Tristan Xerri, (Age 21)
Jy Simpkin, Nick Larkey, Cam Zurhaar (Age 22)
Ben Mckay (Age 22)

So, at the start or close enough to of the clubs rebuilds, how are both teams placed in terms of young talent?

From a North perspective, its actually an exciting time. I've never seen a full rebuild using the draft, and surely it will have ups and downs, but to think we will be able to add the most elite of elite juniors over the next 2 years, to the talent assembled above, i can't help but be optimistic for the future.
The coach is really the killer in this regard, seeing it doesn't take a lot to stall out a rebuild.

That said, list wise, it's pretty even. Couple of stand out youths for both in Simpkin, Stephenson, Hately, Doedee. Lots of could be very good AFL players (and forgetting Lachie Sholl, tsk tsk) and both sides have been pretty aggressive clearing their list out at the start of the rebuild. Of course, that's the easy part. I do like what Adelaide is building, and whilst I don't particularly trust late season form, I do like the style of play Nicks is wanting to play. Seems sustainable.

Adelaide just desperately needs to rebuild our inside midfield. Schoenberg looks like he could be a star (but then, the question is always is he looking like a star because the expectation for a 1st year player is low?), but it gets a bit barren after that. Hately does help though. It's early days, but I like where we're at on the outside, and in our defense. Looks like we've got something solid to build around in those areas as we are starting to build a good set of linebreakers and capable young defenders. Forward line has some good prospects, but it's also needing a key forward to really be a focal point. It also requires Adelaide to work out what the hell they're doing with Fogarty, seeing he's not a key forward (however, he's ripped now, so hopefully he's fit enough to be a third tall/mid come the start of 2021). I'm sure someone who devoutly followed North would paint a similar picture. Some areas looking extremely promising, others needing a lot of work.

Still, 2021 sets up to be a painful year for both, and I don't think the draft dictates who pushes ahead list wise. It's going to be on Noble, seeing we could easily push a year ahead if he has some growing pains as a coach. Though, how much that means is anyone's guess.
 
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Golumless

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I'm worried about the crows tall defender stocks.

Talia leaves, you got Dodee who can play CHB even if he's 188 CM. McAsey and Brown need games too.

Hoping the crows get a tall defender inthe SANFL in this year's draft.
I'm not, defensively we look rather ok, injuries not withstanding.

Talia has 2-3 years in him which is plenty of time to get McAsey up to speed. McPherson will replace Brown in the long term if he can stay healthy. There is a bit of a question mark around mid-defender long term (though hopefully Hinge can take that role), and 2nd KPD. but both positions is just about finding a warm body capable of doing an adequate job cheaply.
 

Freomaniac

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I'm not, defensively we look rather ok, injuries not withstanding.

Talia has 2-3 years in him which is plenty of time to get McAsey up to speed. McPherson will replace Brown in the long term if he can stay healthy. There is a bit of a question mark around mid-defender long term (though hopefully Hinge can take that role), and 2nd KPD. but both positions is just about finding a warm body capable of doing an adequate job cheaply.
You say Daniel Talia has 2-3 good years left. that is true. His is a free agent next season The question is, will he end his career at the crows or go to Victoria and spend his last 2 years playing finals with a Victorian club? Or will he reitre??

Yes you also have Josh Worrell who is 195cm and hasnt played a game..... yet.

Jordan Butts turns 21 at the end of the month, McAsey turns 20 in March of 2021. So take away talia, all your KPD stocks are very young.

Only Problem is Butts, McAsey and Worrell are all Victorian. Thats the minor issue.
 

Golumless

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You say Daniel Talia has 2-3 good years left. that is true. His is a free agent next season The question is, will he end his career at the crows or go to Victoria and spend his last 2 years playing finals with a Victorian club? Or will he reitre??

Yes you also have Josh Worrell who is 195cm and hasnt played a game..... yet.

Jordan Butts turns 21 at the end of the month, McAsey turns 20 in March of 2021. So take away talia, all your KPD stocks are very young.

Only Problem is Butts, McAsey and Worrell are all Victorian. Thats the minor issue.
I'm not particularly concerned about losing Talia. Not to say its impossible that it would occur, but I can't see us forcing him to look elsewhere and he doesn't strike me as the personality who'd leave a club to chase premiership glory.

If we do end up losing Talia, by that point the next season rolls around, McAsey had 3 preseasons, Butts (who came to us as a much rawer prospect) 4. They should be equipped with enough by then to at least survive in the role.

Were an non-Victorian club, unfortunately its now about developing around the fact there is going to be a large percentage of interstate players around the joint. A part of the added drama of squad building.
 

Pykie

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That said, list wise, it's pretty even. Couple of stand out youths for both in Simpkin, Stephenson, Hately, Doedee. Lots of could be very good AFL players (and forgetting Lachie Sholl, tsk tsk) and both sides have been pretty aggressive clearing their list out at the start of the rebuild. Of course, that's the easy part. I do like what Adelaide is building, and whilst I don't particularly trust late season form, I do like the style of play Nicks is wanting to play. Seems sustainable.

Doedee is 24 in a few months, he's 9 months younger than someone like Trent Dumont who I wouldn't include in these discussions.

I think you are going very early on someone like Hately also, if 13 touches a game is a prerequisite to be a stand out young player in these lists, then we have about 7 others you could list.

The following have all been rising star noms in the last 2 seasons: Cam Zurhaar, Nick Larkey, Bailey Scott, Tarryn Thomas and Curtis Taylor.

The above also don't include the likes of Simpkin, LDU or Stephenson either.
 
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Freomaniac

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I'm not particularly concerned about losing Talia. Not to say its impossible that it would occur, but I can't see us forcing him to look elsewhere and he doesn't strike me as the personality who'd leave a club to chase premiership glory.

If we do end up losing Talia, by that point the next season rolls around, McAsey had 3 preseasons, Butts (who came to us as a much rawer prospect) 4. They should be equipped with enough by then to at least survive in the role.

Were an non-Victorian club, unfortunately its now about developing around the fact there is going to be a large percentage of interstate players around the joint. A part of the added drama of squad building.
I'm surprised you are not concerned about losing Daniel Talia.

No doubt he is an a grade or elite tall defender.

Again.... Not the worst tall defender stocks in the post Talia period. But the crows know they are going to do a full rebuild. Depending on who you draft and what kids are coming through, could mean the crows will spend 2-4 more years in the bottom 6.

As I said you can get some wins vs certain clubs if Dodee is CHB and either McAsey or Butts plays full back.

I do rate Dodee as a defender. I mean Ben Rutten was a very good KPD in his day even though he was only 191 cm.

Crows do have some solid small sized and medium sized defenders.

Again.... Both Broadie Smith and Rory Laird play well as half back flankers but both played in the middle when the crows won those games late in the season.

So I am curious how coach Nicks will play both of them. Play both in the back line or both in the middle or one each on the back 6 and the other in the middle.

I am also half convinced crows can get Kaine Baldwin with either of their 2nd rounders.

Might be random doing this, I see Fogarty get thrown in the backline too. I remembered the crows did that last season and it worked out well.

Getting tilthorpe solves the 2nd ruck FF spot for the crows.
 

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