Adelaide's decline

[Rad Roo]

I'm confused...

So in short, adelaide is backwards, it's decades behind the other vic clubs. They probably lack a lot when benchmark against clubs like Hawthorn on mental health, multiculturalism and inclusiveness.

 

[blue harvest]

Sorry but thread title needs an apostrophe Gavin Excell

 

[Gavin Excell]

Sorry but thread title needs an apostrophe Gavin Excell

Yes
I was toying with that issue earlier today but didn't think it was critical

But as time goes by it's now clear a change is not only recommended but essential

 

[Go the Guts]

Crows best two players were Crouch. Mediocre forward line, mediocre back line. no emerging talent.

Simply not true, we most certainly do have some decent emerging talent, but we do very much need some more elite players.
Fogarty, Jones, Milera, Doedee, MaCasey, McHenry should all be potentially excellent players. Doedee already is.
O'Brien is only in his 2nd full season and was slightly better than Lycett last night.

Our older brigade have certainly dropped away and this is where we are suffering, along with losing guys like Jenkins, Greenwood and Ellis Yolmen.
Tex, Talia, Sloaney, Laird, M Crouch, Brown have all gone backwards.... Atkins, Gibbs, MacKay, Hartigan all need to go.

 

[telsor]

There is no denying that date will be the one we all remember that started our decline. But the real issues were much deeper than losing a game, however big it was. It was the decisions, events and people within the club made after that date that did tje damage.

Even more telling though is the fact that the club's culture had obviously been off for the better part of a decade given how many players seemed happy to leave. Papering over the cracks with decent finishes allowed those at the club to deny a problem and instead blame the individual player for leaving- now we know that the place just isn't/wasn't an appealing option for players.

As you could read there aren't too many Crows fans, if any at all, that are trying to deny our problems. This could be a really frank, interesting and mature discussion across all supporters but you seem insistent to try and bring it down to trashy magazine levels.

I urge you to do better and be better. Contribute a meaningful post not hit n run rubbish designed to incite.

You don't get to be the favorites in the Grand Final is your club and culture has serious flaws. A few cracks perhaps, because nobodies perfect, but overall the club needs to be in a pretty good state, on and off field in order to get into that position.

History has shown that big games, especially grand finals CAN make or break clubs, but most would also agree that it's how you react to them than matters more than the game itself. Adelaide's reaction to the GF loss can probably get used as a template for what NOT to do, and a big part of that would be the Adelaide bubble not allowing outside voices to be heard.

So yeah, Crows fans might say they aren't denying the problems, but if you wont listen to uncomfortable opinions from elsewhere, you're not learning how to get past them, are you?

I urge you to do better and be better.

 

[philthy05]

Simply not true, we most certainly do have some decent emerging talent, but we do very much need some more elite players.
Fogarty, Jones, Milera, Doedee, MaCasey, McHenry should all be potentially excellent players. Doedee already is.
O'Brien is only in his 2nd full season and was slightly better than Lycett last night.

Our older brigade have certainly dropped away and this is where we are suffering, along with losing guys like Jenkins, Greenwood and Ellis Yolmen.
Tex, Talia, Sloaney, Laird, M Crouch, Brown have all gone backwards.... Atkins, Gibbs, MacKay, Hartigan all need to go.

O’Brien is one of the few crows who can hold his head up from last night but lycett was clearly the better player. I highlighted on our board an instance when lycett contested the centre tap, and followed up at 2/3 more contests while O’Brien was slowly jogging up to the contest. O’Brien’s stats look good last night but flatter him. He took some marks in defense early when we blasted away but as soon as we started picking targets that stopped.

you also say it’s his second season, but he’s nearly 25, so not the kid that makes him out to be.

As for emerging players Milera and doedee are the only 2 that have shown something.

McHenry and Jones are still prospects and while I wouldn’t write them off I can’t say they have established themselves as good players in the future yet. There’s hope for mcasey based on his junior career. Fogarty is embarrassing.

you’ve got a bunch of picks in this draft and ogilivy (spellings not right I’m sure) has to nail them.

 

[TP86]

You don't get to be the favorites in the Grand Final is your club and culture has serious flaws. A few cracks perhaps, because nobodies perfect, but overall the club needs to be in a pretty good state, on and off field in order to get into that position.

History has shown that big games, especially grand finals CAN make or break clubs, but most would also agree that it's how you react to them than matters more than the game itself. Adelaide's reaction to the GF loss can probably get used as a template for what NOT to do, and a big part of that would be the Adelaide bubble not allowing outside voices to be heard.

So yeah, Crows fans might say they aren't denying the problems, but if you wont listen to uncomfortable opinions from elsewhere, you're not learning how to get past them, are you?

I urge you to do better and be better.

The AFL has a long history of flawed premiers and teams that papered over enough cracks to win. The Crows were not in the same conversation as West Coast 2006 and had they won 2017 the ship would be afloat and cracks would be papered over. Bad culture stops teams without talent climbing the ladder. It doesn’t necessarily stop teams with talent from winning.

I’ve posted this before but the camp has been grossly understated and played down in its severity damaging the culture of the club and the ability for anyone to trust the institution. The institution can find scapegoat and hold reviews but ultimately everyone in a position of authority must go, and full disclosure of what happened and a public apology wouldn’t hurt. That the spin doctors who deflected and denied are still at the club is the biggest insult of all. Even a good foot soldier who turns up and does their job unquestioningly would have a subconscious lack of trust in the institution to do the right thing.

Even the journalists most derided by fans for “sensationalising” the issue were still only ever scratching the surface and beating around the bush. The Crows have the perfect fanbase for the admin to pull a swifty on because to them things like critical analysis and introspection just don’t exist.

Fans and some media expect players to have a memory that lasts one week only so they can focus on the next game. They don’t realise that the camp caused long-term damage.

 

[Greenac]

You don't get to be the favorites in the Grand Final is your club and culture has serious flaws. A few cracks perhaps, because nobodies perfect, but overall the club needs to be in a pretty good state, on and off field in order to get into that position.

History has shown that big games, especially grand finals CAN make or break clubs, but most would also agree that it's how you react to them than matters more than the game itself. Adelaide's reaction to the GF loss can probably get used as a template for what NOT to do, and a big part of that would be the Adelaide bubble not allowing outside voices to be heard.

So yeah, Crows fans might say they aren't denying the problems, but if you wont listen to uncomfortable opinions from elsewhere, you're not learning how to get past them, are you?

I urge you to do better and be better.

Well for starters, whether fans listen to problems or not has no bearing on what the club does. No idea why so many people equate an opinion of a fan to the actions and future of a club.

Regardless, you've admitted the same thing I was trying to say. Our reaction to losing the GF ws horrendous. But I firmly believe it was opening the dam walls to a water level that had been high since before that day. The water level being us off the field, the dam wall was what we did on the field.

Tha failure that day set in motion yet more off field mistakes and the tipping point finally came. In the same way the dam wall has broken, our on field endeavours have never been the same.

No, too many players have left in the past for it to be innocent - we clearly aren'ta place players want to stay and bleed for (interestingly Port seem to be so it can't just be having ti live in a shithole like Adelaide). Too many of our decent staff were allowed to walk in favour of shit and the boys club. The list goes on.


I'll say it again, our off-field mistakes have been building over the decade. The GF was simply the catalyst for those mistakes to come faster than ever as we hysterically overreacted and divided a group rather than healing them for another push.

A healthy club would know not to do that.

You are exactly correct that Adelaide's reaction to it is a blueprint on what not to do.

My issue with your post is the fact that the way you expressed it sounded exactly like a troll and ignored all of the deeper issues at the club that day exposed and what came after.

Those mistakes and that reaction didn't happen just because we played Richmond, substitute any team and we would have done the same thing because we were, and still are, a very sick club.

If you had expressed yourself more like how you just did I would not have criticised you. I welcome criticism of the club - it is no less than they deserve. To aggrandize your own club's influence for the sake of sticking your boot into another is not required.

 

[Greenac]

The AFL has a long history of flawed premiers and teams that papered over enough cracks to win. The Crows were not in the same conversation as West Coast 2006 and had they won 2017 the ship would be afloat and cracks would be papered over. Bad culture stops teams without talent climbing the ladder. It doesn’t necessarily stop teams with talent from winning.

I’ve posted this before but the camp has been grossly understated and played down in its severity damaging the culture of the club and the ability for anyone to trust the institution. The institution can find scapegoat and hold reviews but ultimately everyone in a position of authority must go, and full disclosure of what happened and a public apology wouldn’t hurt. That the spin doctors who deflected and denied are still at the club is the biggest insult of all. Even a good foot soldier who turns up and does their job unquestioningly would have a subconscious lack of trust in the institution to do the right thing.

Even the journalists most derided by fans for “sensationalising” the issue were still only ever scratching the surface and beating around the bush. The Crows have the perfect fanbase for the admin to pull a swifty on because to them things like critical analysis and introspection just don’t exist.

Fans and some media expect players to have a memory that lasts one week only so they can focus on the next game. They don’t realise that the camp caused long-term damage.

To be sure, our grey brigade would likely fit your description of undying loyalty, short memories and apathy to close inspection (obviously paraphrasing).

But to most, and especially on here, the game is up. The writing so clearly on the wall. In the last 24 hours I haven't seen anyone on BF deny we are in crisis with pain ahead. I have only seen such denials on Facebook by aforementioned grey brigade.

No, it is clear we need systemic change a full review and reset, 'footy department-only' be damned. Full review.

I get a lot of supporters in the last 2 seasons denied the impact of the camp, the reasons for player exits, the extent of player discontent but that is just regular old denial. We had just made a GF we were confident of winning and lost , we came away with nothing and struggled to accept our chance was blown and our club had shut its own window through off-field mistakes. It's a fairly human response, but as I said, the game is now truly up.

In 2020 you will see more acceptance of our new reality and our place in the bottom 4 (likely) or perhaps bottom 2, hell, bottom 1. The question remains what year will we see the re-emergance of hope?

 

[BronCrow]

Don't beat yourself up about it mate.

Believe me, I’m not. Just describing it as I see it.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[BronCrow]

• Campo turned our midfield into a bunch of one-way running, unaccountable softies.
• Burton hiring CM who organised the camp clearly divided the playing group in 2018.
• The rapid declining of senior players who excelled in 2017. Lynch, Laird, M. Crouch, you could even throw Tex into this mix who seems cooked, and no one has stepped up (or been selected) to replace them.
• Hart's incompetent coaching of our defence and, then last year, our forward structures which didn't actually appear to have any structure at all.
• Drafting. Ogilvie seems to be popular around here, but why? Since 2015, the only draftee worth anything has been Doedee. Milera has not come along at all, the 2016 crop is a complete bust (some very handy players were picked up after Gooch) and Fog needs to start offering more than a mark and nice set-shot. The 2018 crop needs a bit more time as only Jones has played but do they really scream elite to anyone? We had the upper hand on Port going into that draft yet they still ended up with Rozee while we sat and twiddled our thumbs. Which brings me to...
• List management. Have only traded in rejects from other clubs and Gibbs which has been an utmost disaster.

Getting rid of Burton and Campo post-review was a nice start but that's all it was. There's a shit load more trash that needs to be binned before the club goes anywhere. Chapman, Roo, Fagan and Hart all need to go, and tOgilvie and Reid are starting to skate on thin ice.

Couldn’t have said it better


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Go the Guts]

O’Brien is one of the few crows who can hold his head up from last night but lycett was clearly the better player. I highlighted on our board an instance when lycett contested the centre tap, and followed up at 2/3 more contests while O’Brien was slowly jogging up to the contest. O’Brien’s stats look good last night but flatter him. He took some marks in defense early when we blasted away but as soon as we started picking targets that stopped.

you also say it’s his second season, but he’s nearly 25, so not the kid that makes him out to be.

As for emerging players Milera and doedee are the only 2 that have shown something.

McHenry and Jones are still prospects and while I wouldn’t write them off I can’t say they have established themselves as good players in the future yet. There’s hope for mcasey based on his junior career. Fogarty is embarrassing.

you’ve got a bunch of picks in this draft and ogilivy (spellings not right I’m sure) has to nail them.

Lol on Fogarty. He's a man child, has played 16 games and has the hardness and skill we badly need.
The fact you say he's embarrassing by the fact he didn't take any crap from your faux-tough guys last night tells me he's just what we need.
Jones has played 10 games. 10.
Last night was both McHenry's and MaCasey's debuts. MaCasey is the highest draft pick in our club's history - he will be a jet.
Yes we have a bunch of picks this year and I have a feeling we're all stocked up ready to make plays for Lukosius and Rankine by the time their contracts are getting closer to the end.

 

[Schulzenfest]

The fact you say he's embarrassing by the fact he didn't take any crap from your faux-tough guys last night tells me he's just what we need.

'Didn't take any crap from your faux-tough guys'

He had 4 touches all day and spent most of the game dog shotting smaller players from behind because they were first to the ball and he wasn't. He is the faux-tough guy.

 

[Go the Guts]

'Didn't take any crap from your faux-tough guys'

He had 4 touches all day and spent most of the game dog shotting smaller players from behind because they were first to the ball and he wasn't. He is the faux-tough guy.

Ha ha yeah. Righto.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Ha ha yeah. Righto.

What part of what I said was incorrect? Be specific.

 

[STFU Donnie]

Checking in for the melting, expect some good ones from the supporters of the clubs who seem to be perennial losers.

What? You mean just like the Crows?

 

[1990crow]

What part of what I said was incorrect? Be specific.

All of it.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Stayed put and got Chayce Jones. I see him being serviceable (Having said that, he's doing better now that we're actually attacking the game)
But our other 1st round picks were too low to do damage. I actually see McHenery doing well. Just the player we need. Our very own Milne/Ballayntyne

I think that sums it all up. Servicable... might have some potential.

Two players overlooked for those two Zac Butters and Xavier Duursma... were pushing for best on ground last night.

 

[philthy05]

Lol on Fogarty. He's a man child, has played 16 games and has the hardness and skill we badly need.
.MaCasey is the highest draft pick in our club's history - he will be a jet.
Yes we have a bunch of picks this year and I have a feeling we're all stocked up ready to make plays for Lukosius and Rankine by the time their contracts are getting closer to the end.

1. Fogarty coming into the league needed to work on his fitness and running and solidify a position. He’s gotten bigger, slower, and looks like he can’t play anywhere other than as an undersized kf. That’s alarming. But anyway we disagree on him but that’s my view.

2. I very much like mcasey based on his junior career but he hasn’t done anything at afl level yet. That’s okay I don’t expect that but as I pointed out doedee and Milera were the only young (23yr olds) that had shown high level so far. So the context was young players that have shown something at afl level. I mentioned clearly in my post I rate mcasey.

3. crows have not had a lot of high picks. I think that is clear. Saying mcasey at pick 6 is your highest draft pick is misleading. Brad crouch was selected 2nd in the mini-draft. General concession is that everyone would consider him a top 2 pick. You traded pick 2 to north for Carey.

4. This is not the position you want to be in to attract Rankine or luko.

 

[Chuckie357]

This was the worst of it all.

A review sanctioned and run by the people who needed to be kicked out.

The big dog rules the roooost

Why is Walker still in the firsts? He doesn't follow up, he doesn't put much thought into his "passes" and just belts it downfield. He stays away from goal (I'm sure he is told to) but adds nothing in the middle.

Most contests he actually gets to, the ball passes him by.

Because he is mates with Mark “the main man” ricciuotto, bought his pub and they pump up each other’s egos too. He says he has no say around the club but it’s obvious he does with getting his mates a gig and then surviving the external review. He’s on the Adelaide media and has power because of it. Ricciuotto couldn’t drop one of his mates - they dropped Jenkins last year instead.
Dropping Walker would be a bold move but would be perceived as being too drastic

 

[SC26]

I think that sums it all up. Servicable... might have some potential.

Two players overlooked for those two Zac Butters and Xavier Duursma... were pushing for best on ground last night.

Not every player is going to be explosive from year 1, like Rozee/Butters/Duursma.
Players like Dangerfield/Martin took a while to get going. Jones might not be a better player now, but he could be in a few years - he also might not be of course.
Like many Crows fans for a while complained about us drafting Doedee instead of Burton (who did more early on in his career, while Doedee was stuck in SANFL for a while), but many have no problem with that now.

 

[Schulzenfest]

All of it.

So you can't actually specify anything that was incorrect? There's a reason I asked you to be specific.

Actually I do owe Lewis Johnston Mk 2 a small apology. Your great white hope actually had 5 disposals yesterday, not 4. My mistake.

 

[1990crow]

So you can't actually specify anything that was incorrect? There's a reason I asked you to be specific.

Actually I do owe Lewis Johnston Mk 2 a small apology. Your great white hope actually had 5 disposals yesterday, not 4. My mistake.

Might be because our midfield is shit. Your assessment is trolling.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Can't just keep losing bloody good/useful footballers. I've never known a club to continually lose important players like they have. And this is through numerous coaches over a VERY long period of time. Probably done well to stay up long as they did considering.

Maybe it's been dealt with. Hopefully for their sake it has. Otherwise it won't matter how well they depart or recruit if the players keep leaving. Something just isn't (or wasn't) right.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Might be because our midfield is shit. Your assessment is trolling.

'Trolling' isn't just anything you disagree with m8