Adjusting to Geelong's position in the AFL in 2014

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#76
Agree and disagree
Some of our seasoned warriors are past it.
Some of our young hopes are not up to it.
Some of the rest are awesome.
The net effect is what we are seeing evolve.
Or haven't reached the required seasoning yet?

Still think that if we get rolled by North this week?

That is a test.
And what if we win? I'd say we're a pretty bloody good show tonight.

Basically it's a strike out since 07 with first picks it looks atm. That's not a good av.
It's a bit sad when he enjoys wowing everybody and we look back over the last 1/2 dozen years, any wonder we're now starting to struggle.
Menzel was unfortunate.
I think the one before Harry was Varcoe?....how well is he tracking?
He would have been killed that year if he'd done the rabbit trick, no we're talking since Taylor. The obvious ones are generally that way for a very good reason, that's the point, and you're making it for me!

We shouldn't be crossing fingers thinking we've plucked stars for rd 50 and rookie picks, they're not the ones we should should be relying on, it's that important Wells does it right with our limited earlier pick or picks.
And of late he's failed.
What a pile of unmitigated horse shit.

Of the first rounders, the majority of them have had long term injuries, and only one, Mitch Brown, has been on the list long enough to make any kind of call. The ones that have had a clear run at it are or are becoming excellent footballers.

Do you realize Darcy Lang is coming back from a very serious broken leg? Do you know how long it takes to get an injury of that nature back to something close to normal? It's a credit to the kid's resilience that he's even been able to get it right enough to play. How much of him have you seen anyway? The parts you watched on ABC last weekend? He won't start to show what he's really got until much later in the year, if not next year.

And here's a news flash. Drafting is not an exact science anyway. Name me the clubs that have a 100% success rate by your measurements. Having a quick scan here back to 2007, by your exacting and meticulous standards, every other club has had at least one absolute bust with a first round pick. Considering 15 is the best pick we've had since 2007, for all of them that are fit to have played senior footy this season, a season where last time I looked, we were still in the top 4, and without playing one single side you could call a dud, I'd say that's the opposite of the cupboard being bare, or complete strike out like you're suggesting.

This idea that a recruiter's success rate on first round picks indicates their overall ability to draft talent full stop is also a steaming pile of number two's. Our success rate with lower picks is phenomenal no matter which way you stack it.

I'm sick of 'supporters' looking back in hindsight and saying 'we could have had player X instead of player Y'. The only first round pick we've had that I wasn't happy with was taking Thurlow over Grundy but I'm yet to have seen enough evidence to classify it as a mistake. Even if it eventuates that it was, I'm prepared to cut Wells and co a bit of slack, considering they get it right far more often than not.

Seriously, there are some ******* cry babies and sooks around here. I know there are a lot of people who follow footy who completely overreact after a loss, or a patch where form is shaky, but for ****s sake, this club has given us a hell of a ride in recent years, a better ride than most supporters of any club has ever had. So just because we're not making and winning GF's every year now, suddenly we suck and it's unacceptable etc etc, despite the fact that by pretty much every indicator we are currently well exceeding where we should be at???

I remember the days prior to round 6 2007, when half the list was shit and they needed to go. Ling, Enright, Kelly, S.Johnson, Ottens, Mackie and Rooke were among the names that were put out there on several occasions of being has beens or never weres. A few of them ended up being handy footballers no?

I'd hate to think what the carry on would be like if we were really shit and going nowhere.
 

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Partridge

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#77
I remember the days prior to round 6 2007, when half the list was shit and they needed to go. Ling, Enright, Kelly, S.Johnson, Ottens, Mackie and Rooke were among the names that were put out there on several occasions of being has beens or never weres. A few of them ended up being handy footballers no?

I'd hate to think what the carry on would be like if we were really shit and going nowhere.
I don't think you'll have long to wait unfortunately. If Scott doesn't get his act together soon I'm afraid that's where they'll be heading.
 

meto

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#78
Krisholio, ...... We've got to talk about something on here, so why not analyse what Wells has done, he's not above reproach he's on the payrole and doing quite nicely. All I've suggested is, his form of late does not warrant the accolades of yesteryear that he still receives.
Time to get it right for once imo.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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#79
Bit of a difference between 5 and 20.
If all you're looking at is the final score, and ignored that Richmond was actually leading in the last quarter of the 2009 game (something that they never did at any point of the 2013 game), I guess that would be correct.

Two time on goals from Geelong in 2009 helped push the margin from 7 points to 20. Two junk time goals from Richmond in 2013 (including one as the siren went) helped cut the margin from 15 points to 5.
 

Partridge

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#80
Krisholio, ...... We've got to talk about something on here, so why not analyse what Wells has done, he's not above reproach he's on the payrole and doing quite nicely. All I've suggested is, his form of late does not warrant the accolades of yesteryear that he still receives.
Time to get it right for once imo.
He's still more than got the runs on the board, but it's not an exact science, and unfortunately we haven't been able to develop a young key forward since Hawkins. It's partly due to injuries, but it's how things are right now.
 

MC Extra Dollop

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#81
Krisholio, ...... We've got to talk about something on here, so why not analyse what Wells has done, he's not above reproach he's on the payrole and doing quite nicely. All I've suggested is, his form of late does not warrant the accolades of yesteryear that he still receives.
Time to get it right for once imo.
The problem is, people are comparing players like Lang and Thurlow with guys from their respective drafts that are playing a lot of senior football. And almost all of the ones that are getting regular games are in poor teams. If Geelong had taken them, most would have been lucky to crack it for a game as a sub at this stage. Grundy wouldn't be getting a game for Geelong this year. There's barely a player from behind Thurlow in the first round of 2012 that is getting a game week-in/week-out for his team and there's plenty of top picks from that draft who have found it tough so far (Plowman, O'Rourke and Toumpas for a start).

How many 2012 first rounders would be good enough to crack Geelong's 22 for tonight's game, if we go by the benchmark of 'You've got to be better than Taylor Hunt to make it' (Geez, hasn't he gone from match committee lovechild to whipping boy in a short space of time)? I'd say Whitfield, Macrae and Wines are definites and Stringer, Mayes, Vlastuin and Menzel would be possible. That leaves at least 15 others (possibly as many as 18) that would definitely be in the VFL, kicking the dew off, like Thurlow is. And not one of the players taken after Thurlow would be in tonight's side.

Give them some time, FFS.
 

Partridge

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#82
How many 2012 first rounders would be good enough to crack Geelong's 22 for tonight's game, if we go by the benchmark of 'You've got to be better than Taylor Hunt to make it' (Geez, hasn't he gone from match committee lovechild to whipping boy in a short space of time)? I'd say Whitfield, Macrae and Wines are definites and Stringer, Mayes, Vlastuin and Menzel would be possible. That leaves at least 15 others (possibly as many as 18) that would definitely be in the VFL, kicking the dew off, like Thurlow is. And not one of the players taken after Thurlow would be in tonight's side.

Give them some time, FFS.
I still think guys like Guthrie and Horlin-Smith in particular are ahead of their more revered counterparts a decade ago at the same time. Makes sense with Guthrie as he's now (gloriously) knocking on 50 games, although Horlin-Smith only being on 18 tells you something as well. Obviously we all like some players, want some players given extended chances, and dislike others getting extended chances. Either way until they're on somewhere between 30-50 games we just don't know. Hawkins taught us that enormously in game number 79 - but it still hasn't sunk in.
 
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#83
Krisholio, ...... We've got to talk about something on here, so why not analyse what Wells has done, he's not above reproach he's on the payrole and doing quite nicely. All I've suggested is, his form of late does not warrant the accolades of yesteryear that he still receives.
Time to get it right for once imo.
I'm just flabbergasted that anyone could possibly think he's still not getting it right.

You have two new teams that have been able to pick the eyes out of the best young talent for 5 years now. We also haven't had a pick higher than 15 since our last top 10 selection, and even then, that was because we lost our best player to get it. When you're looking for KP talent, particularly a forward, it's slim pickings and speculation after the first 10-12 picks at the best of times let alone a period where our first round pick has been more like the equivalent of a mid to late second round pick.

I look around the league and there aren't any young KPF's that are doing anything of real note at any club right now that we've been in a position to get anyway. Grundy is the closest thing, but he's playing ruck.

And ffs, when you take into consideration the succession of serious injuries some of our blokes have had in recent times, it makes it even more meritorious that we are where we are. Menz, Vards and Bill in particular have now missed entire seasons from serious problems, and the last two have had other nasty long term injuries aside from that. All of these fellows have showed promise at AFL level, yet the lack of continuity has hindered their development curve. However, the side as a whole has been able to stay there or thereabouts.

Now I'm not an eternal optimist by any stretch of the imagination. I'll call a spade a spade when it's warranted. i'm also not saying the club cannot do some things better, because the club can always do some things better. But the vast majority of the criticisms I'm reading are just so far off the mark it just dumbfounds me.
 
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#84
Going into just about every game expecting to win was a strange but enjoyable place to be for a while. (sigh)
Although we are far from being out of the race we have to accept that, with our current and developing cattle GFC has returned to earth.
Loved the trip..
 

pavilion103

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#85
We really had the better of the play in the Port game until halfway through the second quarter but couldn't capitalise.
This is with a fairly weak team too.
So I wouldn't put too much weight on this.


Having said that, overall looking at everything, I feel the same way.
With some of the injuries to young players we are struggling with our now thin depth.
I'm not sure how good some of the other young players are. They may be good. They may be average.

The "era" is definitely over.
Last year was our last chance imo.

Not being negative, just a realistic assessment in my non-professional opinion.
If some of our young guys don't come on we will be in trouble going forward.
Overall picture is ok. But much depends on the development of these new young guys coming through now because we already know that players like Christensen and Motlop are going to be elite.
 

hbk_aus

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#86
Really wish people would stop saying this.

I hate to break to everyone, but we last won the premiership over 2 seasons ago now. We are not the benchmark. We are not the "hunted". We're a good side that other sides match up well on and others don't. Opposition sides do not reach an amazing new level just for us, that's complete bullshit (because Adelaide, Brisbane, Collingwood, West Coast and Hawthorn already this year certainly didn't).
.
You state this like it's fact Partridge. It isnt. I still believe teams get themselves up more against Geelong. You listen to an opposition player speak before they play Geelong and they still see a win against us as a real feather in their cap. You cant just say the teams we have beaten this year clearly didnt get themselves up for our games - isnt it possible they did but we were still too good for us? Compare Richmond's pure effort against us to their effort against Melbourne for example.

He would have been killed that year if he'd done the rabbit trick, no we're talking since Taylor. The obvious ones are generally that way for a very good reason, that's the point, and you're making it for me!

We shouldn't be crossing fingers thinking we've plucked stars for rd 50 and rookie picks, they're not the ones we should should be relying on, it's that important Wells does it right with our limited earlier pick or picks.
And of late he's failed.

Failed? Which of those high picks are proven definite failures?
 

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hbk_aus

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#87
It's a bit sad when he enjoys wowing everybody and we look back over the last 1/2 dozen years, any wonder we're now starting to struggle.
Menzel was unfortunate.
I think the one before Harry was Varcoe?....how well is he tracking?
We are struggling? 6-2? Or do you mean we are struggling to be as dominant as we used to be?
 

Partridge

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#88
You state this like it's fact Partridge. It isnt. I still believe teams get themselves up more against Geelong. You listen to an opposition player speak before they play Geelong and they still see a win against us as a real feather in their cap. You cant just say the teams we have beaten this year clearly didnt get themselves up for our games - isnt it possible they did but we were still too good for us? Compare Richmond's pure effort against us to their effort against Melbourne for example.
You and others state like it's fact that other teams get themselves "up" for us. There's as much evidence for either.
 

hbk_aus

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#89
I don't think you'll have long to wait unfortunately. If Scott doesn't get his act together soon I'm afraid that's where they'll be heading.
Oh dont be so unnecessarily dramatic. We are 6-2 having lost to 2 very good teams interstate. Hardly heading towards "shit and going nowhere".
 

hbk_aus

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#90
You and others state like it's fact that other teams get themselves "up" for us. There's as much evidence for either.
Its my (and others) opinion that they do. I dont preface my opinion commenting that i wish people wouldnt state the opposite as its basically rubbish. And adding the patronising "i hate to break it to everyone.." lines. We get you are a glass half empty type and that's your right (and i agree with some of the things you say), but you do tend to go a bit far with it in every single thread. In my opinion of course.
 

Partridge

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#91
Oh dont be so unnecessarily dramatic. We are 6-2 having lost to 2 very good teams interstate. Hardly heading towards "shit and going nowhere".
We'll wait and see tonight. Let's see how much Scott - who by his own admission doesn't acknowledge things from the past - learns from previous LOSSES to North. Including the last time we played them.
 

hbk_aus

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#92
We'll wait and see tonight. Let's see how much Scott - who by his own admission doesn't acknowledge things from the past - learns from previous LOSSES to North. Including the last time we played them.
So a loss tonight would make us shit and going nowhere? We would still be 6-3 after suffering numerous injuries/suspensions to key depth players since pre-season, after numerous fans and "experts" alike had us sliding down the table as far as out of the 8?
 

Partridge

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#93
So a loss tonight would make us shit and going nowhere? We would still be 6-3 after suffering numerous injuries/suspensions to key depth players since pre-season, after numerous fans and "experts" alike had us sliding down the table as far as out of the 8?
Pretty sure I didn't say that. It would be slightly worrying though, if sides that match up well against us - Fremantle and North are two of those - would be able to beat us time and time again without us seemingly able to learn from it.

That may not concern you, but it does concern me. Especially while the senior coach doesn't acknowledge the past.

It's ok though, because we would be immediately reassured that we'll be ready to play our best football in the finals. Just like the last 2 seasons.
 

hbk_aus

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#94
Pretty sure I didn't say that. It would be slightly worrying though, if sides that match up well against us - Fremantle and North are two of those - would be able to beat us time and time again without us seemingly able to learn from it.

That may not concern you, but it does concern me. Especially while the senior coach doesn't acknowledge the past.

It's ok though, because we would be immediately reassured that we'll be ready to play our best football in the finals. Just like the last 2 seasons.
Time and time again? Over-exaggerating again? It would concern me if we were clearly still a better side than Fremantle which anybody can see we arent. And if you believe his throwaway lines that he "doesnt acknowledge the past" then i dont know what else to say.
As for the finals, once again last year we were within a kick of the eventual premiers in the Prelim. This 7 years after the start of our success and 3 years after it was declared by all and sundry (including miost likely yourself) that our era was over. A remarkable effort to remain up the top for so long in the era of salary caps and drafting.
By all means, we can strive to be better but to make comments that we are heading towards being shit and going nowhere when we sit 6-2 yet again is laughable.
 

Partridge

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#95
Time and time again? Over-exaggerating again? It would concern me if we were clearly still a better side than Fremantle which anybody can see we arent. And if you believe his throwaway lines that he "doesnt acknowledge the past" then i dont know what else to say.
As for the finals, once again last year we were within a kick of the eventual premiers in the Prelim. This 7 years after the start of our success and 3 years after it was declared by all and sundry (including miost likely yourself) that our era was over. A remarkable effort to remain up the top for so long in the era of salary caps and drafting.
By all means, we can strive to be better but to make comments that we are heading towards being shit and going nowhere when we sit 6-2 yet again is laughable.
That's two posts in a row, are you intentionally being misleading or do you not understand. Where did I say that?

A very simple question:

- Do you think it is a concern if North beat us tonight?
 

hbk_aus

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#96
I'd hate to think what the carry on would be like if we were really shit and going nowhere.
I don't think you'll have long to wait unfortunately. If Scott doesn't get his act together soon I'm afraid that's where they'll be heading.
I may be completely and utterly stupid but that infers to me that you think that is where we are heading, does it not?

If we lose tonight then? of course it wouldnt be a great result. Then again i would be more confident if we had Johnson, Christensen, Caddy, Menzel and Vardy playing. And before you start on Vardy, i believe that is who they planned all pre-season fort hat CHF position so clearly important to our structures. But then again, i was concerned when we lost to North in 2007. And thrashed by the Pies in 09, etc, etc.

Its a long season and I believe we have made a pretty start given the circumstances and pre-season expectations.
 

Partridge

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#97
I may be completely and utterly stupid but that infers to me that you think that is where we are heading, does it not?

If we lose tonight then? of course it wouldnt be a great result. Then again i would be more confident if we had Johnson, Christensen, Caddy, Menzel and Vardy playing. And before you start on Vardy, i believe that is who they planned all pre-season fort hat CHF position so clearly important to our structures. But then again, i was concerned when we lost to North in 2007. And thrashed by the Pies in 09, etc, etc.

Its a long season and I believe we have made a pretty start given the circumstances and pre-season expectations.
The start was fantastic. There have been worrying signs in the last 3 weeks and I'm not sure how quickly they're being addressed (if at all).

However, we get Vardy and Menzel back and everything will be dandy. :thumbsu:
 

hbk_aus

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#98
The start was fantastic. There have been worrying signs in the last 3 weeks and I'm not sure how quickly they're being addressed (if at all).

However, we get Vardy and Menzel back and everything will be dandy. :thumbsu:
Really, need for the last comment? Is that what you resort to when being challenged? Would they not be playing senior football if fit? They are on our senior list are they not? Therefore they are missing out of our best 22 are they not?

As for the last 3 weeks, they have been flat but 2 of them are against very good sides at their rabid grounds. I see no disgrace in either of those losses. The other game we won.
 

Partridge

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Really, need for the last comment? Is that what you resort to when being challenged? Would they not be playing senior football if fit? They are on our senior list are they not? Therefore they are missing out of our best 22 are they not?

As for the last 3 weeks, they have been flat but 2 of them are against very good sides at their rabid grounds. I see no disgrace in either of those losses. The other game we won.
Of course they are. But how realistic is Menzel now? They were good enough to beat Hawthorn without any of those players. Christensen is a huge loss, and Caddy hurts too. Vardy we just don't know about. Unfortunately for Johnson, it's 100% self-inflicted.
 

hbk_aus

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Of course they are. But how realistic is Menzel now? They were good enough to beat Hawthorn without any of those players. Christensen is a huge loss, and Caddy hurts too. Vardy we just don't know about. Unfortunately for Johnson, it's 100% self-inflicted.
The point that we arent without excuses if we lose tonight due to about a 3rd of our possible best 22. I will still back us to finish top 4. And on the point you made, if we were good enough to beat Hawthorn then how could you possibly think we are might be going to be shit and going nowhere? Could it be that we have just hit a lull in our season since then? We arent shit all of a sudden.
 
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