Admin, Finance, Members, Ratings, Crowds, Policies - its the 2016 AFL v NRL v ARU v FFA v BBL thread

[Garlic muncher]

Why does it need to? Soo is a state pride thing & the wallabies is a national team!

The majority of the afl clubs supporter base easily out weights all of the NRL, a league and Union club teams, so the larger games like the Anzac day game, the hawk vs cats etc are very large in their own right

Not really my point, i am just wondering if, besides the International rules - which many people detest that we can build up something decent besides the H&A series.

Something that adds to the game but does not detract from the H&A

 

[Rob]

I guess a serious question that needs to be asked is does the AFL have anything to counter SOO in RL, Wallabies test matches, the up coming soccer series etc, does it actually need something to counter them ?, is countering them even the right word, the H&A is obviously the main focus and enjoys across the season great crowds and support but does the AFL need something more ?.

Nope. All those things you mention detract from the main league.

I'd like to see SoO come back, but i'd only play it every couple of years, and even then only in the pre-season.

 

[Slax]

Rumours are growing that the new federal government is going to have to do a deal of gambling advertising and that it will be banned from sporting broadcasts and sporting events. Xenophon is strong opposed to all gambling advertising, the Greens agree and now Hanson is also on board with this. So if they proceed as some are now forecasting they do you will see legislation moved to ban it. The impact that this will have on sport in this country is massive as it will take away what is now the largest paying advertiser from the market. Only 3 AFL clubs have no sponsorship deal with a betting agency and only 1 NRL club. Channel 7, 9 & Fox all rely heavily on the betting advertising to the extent that it is now in-broadcast rather than just ads.

Estimates put the total loss of revenue to the AFL and clubs to be in excess of $25m. If it reduces pokies spending this will only increase further.

I personally like the whole idea of it, the pounding of gambling advertising into kids isn't good, but it will definitely have a big impact on the competition and club finances in an era when more and more clubs are requiring assistance from the AFL.

 

[Gigantor]

If it only amounts to $25 mill per annum, that is chicken feed compared to total annual revenue of some $1.2 billion per annum.

 

[Slax]

If it only amounts to $25 mill per annum, that is chicken feed compared to total annual revenue of some $1.2 billion per annum.

Take $1.5m off each of the 15 clubs with deals and its' not looking good. The AFL will need to find more funds in the kitty to support clubs a bit more, not sure they will be happy to cover another financial hole of $10m. (The other clubs will be able to wear the lose)

The Vic clubs with pokies are also a bit nervous as the gaming commission is having a look at their community programs for the pokies venues as they have been accused of syphoning the money off for football club works and not community benefit, this is rumour to be over $5m (Collingwood & Hawthorn said to be biggest offenders).

When you consider how much the bigger clubs whinged about the equalisation fund of $500k them losing another $2m will really not go down well.

 

[bigleague]

Seven secures Rugby League World Cup 2017

18 July 2016 ---
The Seven Network, Australia’s most-watched broadcast television platform, today confirmed an agreement for all-encompassing coverage of the Rugby League World Cup to be co-hosted by Australia and New Zealand from 27 October to 2 December 2017.

Seven’s agreement for the Rugby League World Cup 2017 delivers all rights in Australia including free-to-air broadcast television and subscription television rights, online, mobile, and expands to Seven’s digital and mobile platforms.

Seven has also been appointed to undertake the host broadcast for international television of all games played in Australia in the Rugby League World Cup 2017.

Seven’s partnership with the Rugby League World Cup follows Seven’s successful broadcast of the sport’s pinnacle event in 2013. Today’s agreement also confirms Seven’s commitment to bringing major events to all Australians.

The agreement further strengthens Seven’s leadership as the television network of major international events held in Australia, building on Seven’s coverage of the Australian Open, the World Swimming Championships, the Olympic Games in Sydney in 2000, the Rugby World Cup in 2003 and the forthcoming Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast in 2018. Seven is the network of the Olympic Games in Rio.

Michael Brown, Chief Executive Officer, Rugby League World Cup 2017 said: “The Seven Network is widely renowned as a leader in sports broadcasting and the Rugby League World Cup 2017 Organising Committee is excited by the opportunities that this partnership presents to both the tournament and the sport as a whole. Seven will broadcast live and free all 28 games, using all their expertise to showcase international Rugby League to Australian households like never before. The Rugby League World Cup 2017 will be the greatest sporting event in Australia next year and we look forward to working with Seven to deliver an event that will entertain the world, inspire communities and celebrate Rugby League.”

Tim Worner, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer, Seven West Media, said: “We’re delighted to be the home of the Rugby League World Cup. We are looking forward to working with them. Our securing of the Cup is yet another step in our development as we build the platforms to create our future. The Rugby League World Cup delivers our business an extraordinary opportunity to drive home our leadership as we broadcast the AFL Grand Final, the Melbourne Cup, the Rugby League World Cup, the Australian Open, the Olympic Winter Games and the Commonwealth Games across late 2017 and early 2018.”

Seven West Media Chief Revenue Officer, Kurt Burnette, said: “We could not be happier to have Rugby League here on Seven. The partnership with the Rugby League World Cup will see us not only create the global television coverage but also undertake the most far-reaching and expansive coverage of the Cup across television and connected devices. We are looking forward to being a partner with the Rugby League World Cup. It will be a remarkable event. And broadcast live in our primetime.”

About the Rugby League World Cup 2017

In 2017, the best Rugby League players from around the world will be in Australia and New Zealand playing for the most sought after prize in international Rugby League. The Rugby League World Cup 2017 will see 14 teams play 28 games over five weeks from 27 October until 2 December 2017 inclusive – all hoping to be crowned world champions in what is the pinnacle event in international Rugby League.

In addition to playing matches in Australia and New Zealand, there will be three pool matches played in Papua New Guinea in front of some of the world's most passionate Rugby League fans. This Tournament will celebrate the diversity of cultures and countries playing and engaging with the game around the world.

Rugby League in Australia has never been stronger. It is now watched and played by more people than ever before and is entrenched in our sporting way of life so now is the time to get behind your team and see the world's best players on the global stage in the Rugby League World Cup 2017.

The tournament draw for the Rugby League World Cup 2017 will be announced on Tuesday 19 July 2016.

http://www.sevenwestmedia.com.au/do...ures-rugby-league-world-cup-2017.pdf?sfvrsn=2

 

[The_Wookie]

Take $1.5m off each of the 15 clubs with deals and its' not looking good. The AFL will need to find more funds in the kitty to support clubs a bit more, not sure they will be happy to cover another financial hole of $10m. (The other clubs will be able to wear the lose)

Why thats interesting. According to the Victorian Government, eight AFL clubs in Victoria are divesting themselves of sports betting sponsorships and signing a charter with Responsible Gambling - signing the charter requires them to walk away from such sponsorship. Clubs so far include Carlton, Richmond, North Melbourne, Collingwood, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Essendon, and St Kilda.

In any case, there wont be many clubs getting 1.5 million a year off betting agencies. Thats a major sponsorship right there - for some clubs thats the equivelant of a jumper sponsorship - and no club currently has a betting agency as a jumper sponsor. The AFL doesnt reveal details about the money it gets from betting agencies, but id bet that the far greater percentage of the revenue loss will come from the league itself.

The Vic clubs with pokies are also a bit nervous...

Are they now? Where have you seen this?

....as the gaming commission is having a look at their community programs for the pokies venues as they have been accused of syphoning the money off for football club works and not community benefit, this is rumour to be over $5m (Collingwood & Hawthorn said to be biggest offenders).

Council submissions to Government reviews are not the same as the gaming commission having a look at anything. Besides which, the Gambling minister ruled in 2009 that it was fine for the football clubs to use pokie money for player and staff wages amongst other things. What the clubs are currently doing is perfectly legal under current law. Its just some people want the rules tightened.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Rumours are growing that the new federal government is going to have to do a deal of gambling advertising and that it will be banned from sporting broadcasts and sporting events. Xenophon is strong opposed to all gambling advertising, the Greens agree and now Hanson is also on board with this. So if they proceed as some are now forecasting they do you will see legislation moved to ban it. The impact that this will have on sport in this country is massive as it will take away what is now the largest paying advertiser from the market. Only 3 AFL clubs have no sponsorship deal with a betting agency and only 1 NRL club. Channel 7, 9 & Fox all rely heavily on the betting advertising to the extent that it is now in-broadcast rather than just ads.

Estimates put the total loss of revenue to the AFL and clubs to be in excess of $25m. If it reduces pokies spending this will only increase further.

I personally like the whole idea of it, the pounding of gambling advertising into kids isn't good, but it will definitely have a big impact on the competition and club finances in an era when more and more clubs are requiring assistance from the AFL.

That's great news.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Interesting stat this weekend in Sydney involving club games, i believe the crowd at the NRL game tonight needs to be over 6k for the 4 Sydney based club NRL games this weekend to beat the Swans crowd last Thursday night of 42k.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Eels v panthers 15,251
Souths v Broncos 13,111
Manly v Warriors 11,109
Knights v storm 10,748
Dragons v Titans 8,256
Easts V Cronulla 9,276

Swans V Hawthorn 42, 314

4 Sydney NRL games 45,894

 

[precarious]

Eels v panthers 15,251
Souths v Broncos 13,111
Manly v Warriors 11,109
Knights v storm 10,748
Dragons v Titans 8,256
Easts V Cronulla 9,276

Swans V Hawthorn 42, 314

4 Sydney NRL games 45,894

Reduced NRL attendances during the origin period seem to be part of the price of having origin (an effect of having depleted teams). But I think for rugby league, origin is still a net gain. The game appears to be playing to its strength by retaining it and is probably wise to do so.

More generally, I think there is some truth (but also a degree of falsehood) to the familiar claim that AFL's larger crowds are due to NRL being better suited to TV.

Actually, I think AFL works great on TV (and the quality of production appears to be rising almost to an art form in recent years, except perhaps at smaller venues and the SCG), but it is still true with AFL that certain aspects of the game (especially structural aspects) are better viewed at the ground. You never feel that confident opining on the game when you haven't actually attended. By the same token, a lot of the close-in play is better viewed on TV. Often I want to reserve judgment on certain things (an inside player's performance, an umpiring decision, etc.) until I've got home and watched a replay of the game on TV.

The same could be said about rugby league, just to a lesser extent. That is, proportionately there seems to be less about the game that is better viewed at the ground than on TV. This is still only a relative thing though, There are definitely some visual aspects that are better viewed at the ground. For example, with a bit of height from behind the goalposts, you'll get an interesting perspective on the structure of the game.

If, visually, AFL offers a greater reason to attend games, then the anticipated crowd atmosphere may be relatively important in determining NRL crowds, even though atmosphere is no doubt a significant factor for both codes. When it comes to attendance, success can breed success, and failure failure. Apart from diehards, most will be more inclined to attend a game if they think lots of others will also be attending.

With most of the NRL games this round (with the exception of the Penrith v Parramatta game, which with 15k in a smallish stadium would have had a pretty decent buzz), the expectation was probably of a small crowd and quiet atmosphere.

 

[Kwality]

Sorry, above is in reply to Kwality. Forgot to quote.

... to quote numbers ignoring the #4 market in Australia whilst including smaller markets proves nothing. Cheerleaders only stuff !!

Lets hope the plan to offer national numbers gets up !

I'd bet media buyers are across the real numbers.

 

[The_Wookie]

http://www.mediaweek.com.au/oztam-tv-panels-grow-nielsen-contract-extension/

OzTAM has announced the number of homes in its television audience measurement (TAM) panels will rise by 50 per cent.

The increase will enhance OzTAM’s already gold standard of television audience measurement, and follows OzTAM’s extension of Nielsen’s contract to supply TAM services in Australia’s five mainland capital cities and nationally for subscription television (STV).

The expansion, which will be completed by the start of 2017, will take OzTAM’s metropolitan panel to 5,250 homes and its STV panel to 2,120 from the present 3,500 and 1,413, respectively.

Concurrently, Regional TAM has announced the expansion of its own panel by 50 per cent to more than 3,000 homes.

In terms of size relative to the population represented, OzTAM’s current sample is already one of the largest internationally.

The additional homes in the OzTAM and Regional TAM panels will make Australia the world’s largest per capita people metered market, and means OzTAM ratings will be even more representative of the overall population.

 

[Kwality]

http://www.mediaweek.com.au/oztam-tv-panels-grow-nielsen-contract-extension/

OzTAM has announced the number of homes in its television audience measurement (TAM) panels will rise by 50 per cent.

The increase will enhance OzTAM’s already gold standard of television audience measurement, and follows OzTAM’s extension of Nielsen’s contract to supply TAM services in Australia’s five mainland capital cities and nationally for subscription television (STV).

The expansion, which will be completed by the start of 2017, will take OzTAM’s metropolitan panel to 5,250 homes and its STV panel to 2,120 from the present 3,500 and 1,413, respectively.

Concurrently, Regional TAM has announced the expansion of its own panel by 50 per cent to more than 3,000 homes.

In terms of size relative to the population represented, OzTAM’s current sample is already one of the largest internationally.

The additional homes in the OzTAM and Regional TAM panels will make Australia the world’s largest per capita people metered market, and means OzTAM ratings will be even more representative of the overall population.

Will these changes mean the use of capital city only numbers by pro AFL fans comparing ratings with the NRL will continue to be flawed ?

 

[The_Wookie]

Will these changes mean the use of capital city only numbers by pro AFL fans will continue to be flawed?

AFL fans use capital city only ratings mostly because thats all that are ever published for AFL states, and the only comparable measure they have, along with fox. Most AFL regionals are never published, so why then would any AFL fan give a damn aboiut regionals? That said, ive used all published figures for all codes since 2013.

 

[Kwality]

AFL fans use capital city only ratings mostly because thats all that are ever published for AFL states, and the only comparable measure they have, along with fox. Most AFL regionals are never published, so why then would any AFL fan give a damn aboiut regionals? That said, ive used all published figures for all codes since 2013.

That's for clarifying that, FWIW I will continue to ignore them as a worthwhile measure AFL vis-a-vis NRL ratings nationally.

 

[The_Wookie]

That's for clarifying that, FWIW I will continue to ignore them as a worthwhile measure AFL vis-a-vis NRL ratings nationally.

I have almost no faith in the ratings system whatsoever, its a glorified survey that too many people put too much stock in.

 

[kaypee]

That's for clarifying that, FWIW I will continue to ignore them as a worthwhile measure AFL vis-a-vis NRL ratings nationally.

quite right. value of tv rights is probably a truer reflection of the popularity/ reach of various codes. Although evn then not the complete story. the AFL could probably get a big increase if they made a number of concessions to media rights holders, as some of its competitors have wisely already done.

 

[The_Wookie]

quite right. value of tv rights is probably a truer reflection of the popularity/ reach of various codes. Although evn then not the complete story. the AFL could probably get a big increase if they made a number of concessions to media rights holders, as some of its competitors have wisely already done.

I dont know about "wisely". Theres a good chance its also robbing Peter to pay Paul as it were. The NRL has gone all out for TV, and it shows in its fixturing and attendances, and while memberships are a relatively new thing in NRL circles, they are still less than a quarter of the AFLs total. NRL club membership income is generally lower than even the lowest AFL clubs.

Then theres the ARU which sacrificed pretty much everything for the TV dollar and as a result has almost no domestic presence.

The thing is, the AFL, and its clubs, still care about attendances to a large extent - remembering that the league itself still derives half its income from non broadcast sources - and club memberships and gate reciepts are still a massive part of club finances. Clubs get about 10 million in distributions from the league every year, but even small clubs turn over about 8 million from memberships and attendances, this is before other match returns including pourage, signage, catering, corporate boxes etc. This is all risked by going all out for media rights.

 

[Hellgood]

I dont know about "wisely". Theres a good chance its also robbing Peter to pay Paul as it were. The NRL has gone all out for TV, and it shows in its fixturing and attendances, and while memberships are a relatively new thing in NRL circles, they are still less than a quarter of the AFLs total. NRL club membership income is generally lower than even the lowest AFL clubs.

Then theres the ARU which sacrificed pretty much everything for the TV dollar and as a result has almost no domestic presence.

The thing is, the AFL, and its clubs, still care about attendances to a large extent - remembering that the league itself still derives half its income from non broadcast sources - and club memberships and gate reciepts are still a massive part of club finances. Clubs get about 10 million in distributions from the league every year, but even small clubs turn over about 8 million from memberships and attendances, this is before other match returns including pourage, signage, catering, corporate boxes etc. This is all risked by going all out for media rights.

Have never read anything from the chip on shoulder crew that has come anywhere close to refuting this.

Excellent post.

 

[footyfan1978]

Not really my point, i am just wondering if, besides the International rules - which many people detest that we can build up something decent besides the H&A series.

Something that adds to the game but does not detract from the H&A

Two weekends of State of Origin in early to mid March whilst clubs are on the pre-season time trying out many new comers in the regional areas.
Squads for each state should be announced at end of home and away footy season for the following March and then trimmed to a final 25 in late February. Then those 25 train together for two or three sessions before the games take place over those two weekends.

The international Cricket Season is over so it is perfect time to have the elite players of our game fresh, fit and motivated for something special in March. and have the sporting spotlight all to their own apart from sharing it a bit with Grand Prix around that time.
Think there should be big prize money on offer both to players and their clubs for how many of their players take part.

 

[Kwality]

quite right. value of tv rights is probably a truer reflection of the popularity/ reach of various codes. Although evn then not the complete story. the AFL could probably get a big increase if they made a number of concessions to media rights holders, as some of its competitors have wisely already done.

Relevance to national TV comparisons and the changes outlined by Wookie?

 

[Garlic muncher]

Will these changes mean the use of capital city only numbers by pro AFL fans comparing ratings with the NRL will continue to be flawed ?

Exactly how is the concept of comparing city v city flawed ?, using the same system in each city ?.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Huge discrepancy again on Friday night, lucky for the NRL the Broncos were playing.

Fri TV #AFL #AFLPiesNorth Seven 516k (Mel 398k Ade 118k) 7mate 137k (Syd 27k Bri 22k Per 89k)

Fri TV #NRL #NRLBroncosPanthers Nine 418k (Syd 212k Bri 206k) Gem 34k (Mel 19k Ade 6k Per 10k)

Fri STV #NRL #FoxSports #NRLBroncosPanthers 204k

Fri STV #AFL #FoxFooty #AFLPiesNorth 249k

AFL 902k
NRL 656k

 

[Kwality]

Exactly how is the concept of comparing city v city flawed ?, using the same system in each city ?.

Its not, as a read of my post would reveal.
I specified nationally for a reason, relevance !!