Adrian Dodoro: Football’s Biggest Fraud IMO

[Soapy V]

Have Carlton turned it around though? At least wait until success comes before declaring Carlton successful.

Did I say successful?

 

[Metalcrusher]

This might be hard to understand, but when someone is quoting a specific poster that isn't you, it probably means they're not referring to something you said.

Not hard at all.

So exactly what are you saying? What are you value adding into this thread?

 

[owen87]

injecting

How Dank.

 

[JayJ20]

Did I say successful?

You said that Carlton are turning things around, which implies that Carlton are on the path of success. They literally haven't demonstrated anything to suggest that they're in a better position now than before. I'd wait until there's actual evidence of Carlton improving. Objectively, it looks like the same old Carlton. I'd rather look at Richmond.

 

[Soapy V]

You said that Carlton are turning things around, which implies that Carlton are on the path of success. They literally haven't demonstrated anything to suggest that they're in a better position now than before. I'd wait until there's actual evidence of Carlton improving. Objectively, it looks like the same old Carlton.

Nope. Disagree

I see many things that suggest we are on the path to success and have for the past 4-5 years. It's all coming together perfectly

 

[Metalcrusher]

You said that Carlton are turning things around, which implies that Carlton are on the path of success. They literally haven't demonstrated anything to suggest that they're in a better position now than before. I'd wait until there's actual evidence of Carlton improving. Objectively, it looks like the same old Carlton.

No argument here. CFC need to prove themselves. But looking list for list sakes ... casting an eye over Essendon's v Carlton's I would suggest an unbiased eye would conclude the strength of one over the other.

 

[Metalcrusher]

How Dank.

I will edit that, that was NOT the inference.

Edit: Fixed.

 

[La Dispute]

Daniher and Saad left because their talents were being wasted at Essendon, who wont be contending any time soon and lack polish.

Not comparable to Richmond players leaving for opportunity, and in Brandon Ellis

4

Brandon Ellis

Age

30

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.7

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.4

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

18.4

4star

K

12.9

5star

HB

5.6

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.3

3star

CL

1.4

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

1.0

3star

' case, a 300k pay rise.

 

[JayJ20]

No argument here. CFC need to prove themselves. But looking list for list sakes ... casting an eye over Essendon's v Carlton's I would suggest an unbiased eye would conclude the strength of one over the other.

Well the game isn't played on paper is it? Carlton needs to outperform Essendon first before making the call. And no, finishing half a game above us doesn't automatically make you a better team.

Nope. Disagree

I see many things that suggest we are on the path to success and have for the past 4-5 years. It's all coming together perfectly

I see. It's not about the 10 losses. It's the 7 wins right?

My main concern with Carlton's list isn't talent. It's inexperience and most of all, a concerning trend of mental weakness similar to Melbourne. How many times does Carlton concede 5 goals in a row under Teague? Carlton were in a position to make the 8, then proceeded to lose 4 out of the last 5 games. Imagine being 7 goals down at half time to the wooden spooners in QLD? If you think Saad and Williams will fix everything, look no further than Saad, Stringer, Smith and Shiel. Wait until Saad and Williams actually make an impact and give you success.

You may think you're on the right path "because it's different this time", but you need to wait for evidence before declaring it. Objectively, there's no evidence that Carlton are better placed now than they were a decade ago. At least you guys were making finals back then before you sacked Ratten.

 

[Robertio]

Neither did we. Another bad year and that may change for you guys.

You do realise you'd need to actually play finals to be considered successful yeah? When's the last time Carlton won more than 11 games in a year? 2011 right? 5 wooden spoons in 16 years? The last team I'd be looking to follow.

Have i stumbled onto another Carlton thread.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Daniher and Saad left because their talents were being wasted at Essendon, who wont be contending any time soon and lack polish.

Not comparable to Richmond players leaving for opportunity, and in Brandon Ellis' case, a 300k pay rise.

McKenna couldn't even wait til the end of the season

 

[jezzajay]

Well the game isn't played on paper is it? Carlton needs to outperform Essendon first before making the call. And no, finishing half a game above us doesn't automatically make you a better team.

I see. It's not about the 10 losses. It's the 7 wins right?

My main concern with Carlton's list isn't talent. It's inexperience and most of all, a concerning trend of mental weakness similar to Melbourne. How many times does Carlton concede 5 goals in a row under Teague? Carlton were in a position to make the 8, then proceeded to lose 4 out of the last 5 games. Imagine being 7 goals down at half time to the wooden spooners in QLD? If you think Saad and Williams will fix everything, look no further than Saad, Stringer, Smith and Shiel. Wait until Saad and Williams actually make an impact and give you success.

You may think you're on the right path "because it's different this time", but you need to wait for evidence before declaring it. Objectively, there's no evidence that Carlton are better placed now than they were a decade ago. At least you guys were making finals back then before you sacked Ratten.

You just mentioned part of the evidence.
Carlton won 7 out of 17 games last year. 7 out of 22 the previous and 2 out of 22 games the year before. Better winning rate year on year the last few years since we hit rock bottom.
Compare that to your mob the last few years who were stagnant at best and then declined.
Carlton dont have players wanting to leave, Essendon do.
No wonder Carlton fans are optimistic and I dont see anyone saying we are successful - yet!
Nuff said...

 

[Soapy V]

Well the game isn't played on paper is it? Carlton needs to outperform Essendon first before making the call. And no, finishing half a game above us doesn't automatically make you a better team.

I see. It's not about the 10 losses. It's the 7 wins right?

My main concern with Carlton's list isn't talent. It's inexperience and most of all, a concerning trend of mental weakness similar to Melbourne. How many times does Carlton concede 5 goals in a row under Teague? Carlton were in a position to make the 8, then proceeded to lose 4 out of the last 5 games. Imagine being 7 goals down at half time to the wooden spooners in QLD? If you think Saad and Williams will fix everything, look no further than Saad, Stringer, Smith and Shiel. Wait until Saad and Williams actually make an impact and give you success.

You may think you're on the right path "because it's different this time", but you need to wait for evidence before declaring it. Objectively, there's no evidence that Carlton are better placed now than they were a decade ago. At least you guys were making finals back then before you sacked Ratten.

Nope. You can see or judge a path before it happens. It's about the talent, the growth and the additions to the list and the upside which I see as huge. It's also about the coaching, development, the fitness support and now their own reserves which is the best I have seen at the club in 50 years

We are very different to the Essendon list as we have Cripps Weitering McKay Charlie (if fit) Setterfield Docherty SPS Walsh Martin and many others ready to lead and go to the next level. Saad Williams will help that and fill vital roles positionally.

JMO and I'm sticking to it

 

[La Dispute]

Well the game isn't played on paper is it? Carlton needs to outperform Essendon first before making the call. And no, finishing half a game above us doesn't automatically make you a better team.

I see. It's not about the 10 losses. It's the 7 wins right?

My main concern with Carlton's list isn't talent. It's inexperience and most of all, a concerning trend of mental weakness similar to Melbourne. How many times does Carlton concede 5 goals in a row under Teague? Carlton were in a position to make the 8, then proceeded to lose 4 out of the last 5 games. Imagine being 7 goals down at half time to the wooden spooners in QLD? If you think Saad and Williams will fix everything, look no further than Saad, Stringer, Smith and Shiel. Wait until Saad and Williams actually make an impact and give you success.

You may think you're on the right path "because it's different this time", but you need to wait for evidence before declaring it. Objectively, there's no evidence that Carlton are better placed now than they were a decade ago. At least you guys were making finals back then before you sacked Ratten.

5 goal swings aren't mental weakness, that's inconsistency. That fact we've managed to come back from those margins and actually win quite a few of those games we've been significantly down in actually shows the team has plenty of grit and can work against the tide.

The difference with Saad and Williams coming in is we've got a far better (and younger) core than Essendon had. Our best key position players are both 24, we've got a top 5 player in Cripps and another gun mid in Walsh. Our team is far more well-rounded than the flaky Essendon team of the past decade.

The reason Stringer, Smith and Shiel haven't had much success is because they're not played to their strengths, and a major reason for that is because the list is completely unbalanced. Also Stringer is very lazy.

You can say we aren't better placed, and that's a reasonable argument, but the strategy has been flawless to date. It's now up to the squad to make good on all that potential, but the bare bones are certainly there.

 

[Soapy V]

5 goal swings aren't mental weakness, that's inconsistency. That fact we've managed to come back from those margins and actually win quite a few of those games we've been significantly down in actually shows the team has plenty of grit and can work against the tide.

The difference with Saad and Williams coming in is we've got a far better (and younger) core than Essendon had. Our best key position players are both 24, we've got a top 5 player in Cripps and another gun mid in Walsh. Our team is far more well-rounded than the flaky Essendon team of the past decade.

The reason Stringer, Smith and Shiel haven't had much success is because they're not played to their strengths, and a major reason for that is because the list is completely unbalanced. Also Stringer is very lazy.

You can say we aren't better placed, and that's a reasonable argument, but the strategy has been flawless to date. It's now up to the squad to make good on all that potential, but the bare bones are certainly there.

I saw it as youth, new game plan finding balance and getting used to playing as a group. I expect big improvement in this area this year

 

[JayJ20]

You just mentioned part of the evidence.
Carlton won 7 out of 17 games last year. 7 out of 22 the previous and 2 out of 22 games the year before. Better winning rate year on year the last few years since we hit rock bottom.
Compare that to your mob the last few years who were stagnant at best and then declined.
Carlton dont have players wanting to leave, Essendon do.
No wonder Carlton fans are optimistic and I dont see anyone saying we are successful - yet!
Nuff said...

7 wins...
Lol. Cmon. To make finals, you'd need to win at least 5 more than that with a percentage of above 100.
If you win 8, 9, 9 and 10 in the next 4 years, that's natural progression. Would you be happy with that? Clearly not.
I'd wait for that to happen first before going off.

Nope. You can see or judge a path before it happens. It's about the talent, the growth and the additions to the list and the upside which I see as huge. It's also about the coaching, development, the fitness support and now their own reserves which is the best I have seen at the club in 50 years

We are very different to the Essendon list as we have Cripps Weitering McKay Charlie (if fit) Setterfield Docherty SPS Walsh Martin and many others ready to lead and go to the next level. Saad Williams will help that and fill vital roles positionally.

JMO and I'm sticking to it

"Ready to lead" ok. All I see is "this could happen and that could happen and this player could be like this if fit". Exactly the same arguments you can use for Essendon the last 3 years.

It's all moot until you actually do it. You can feel internally confident, but externally, it looks like more of the same. A bunch of high picks that aren't making finals, which is what the previous Carlton team was. Actually no, they were making finals for 3 years. "It's different because it looks like it" isn't a great argument.

Brisbane, who were at the bottom at the same time as Carlton are already contending despite having a lot of talent walk out the door. Until Carlton follow Brisbane, I'd be more reserved.

Oh and bolded is just laughable. Past 50 years. Yeah sure we can smell what the blues are cooking. Miss me with that BS.

5 goal swings aren't mental weakness, that's inconsistency. That fact we've managed to come back from those margins and actually win quite a few of those games we've been significantly down in actually shows the team has plenty of grit and can work against the tide.

The difference with Saad and Williams coming in is we've got a far better (and younger) core than Essendon had. Our best key position players are both 24, we've got a top 5 player in Cripps and another gun mid in Walsh. Our team is far more well-rounded than the flaky Essendon team of the past decade.

The reason Stringer, Smith and Shiel haven't had much success is because they're not played to their strengths, and a major reason for that is because the list is completely unbalanced. Also Stringer is very lazy.

You can say we aren't better placed, and that's a reasonable argument, but the strategy has been flawless to date. It's now up to the squad to make good on all that potential, but the bare bones are certainly there.

Well you can say Melbourne are inconsistent as well, but what's the truth there? You'd want Teague to fix that up very soon or it could be a slippery slope from there. Success is built on a winning culture. Carlton certainly don't have a winning culture yet. Wait until they build it.

Carlton have a talented group of players sure. I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that you'd want to wait and see the results before making premature calls.

 

[Soapy V]

7 wins...
Lol. Cmon. To make finals, you'd need to win at least 5 more than that with a percentage of above 100.
If you win 8, 9, 9 and 10 in the next 4 years, that's natural progression. Would you be happy with that? Clearly not.
I'd wait for that to happen first before going off.


"Ready to lead" ok. All I see is "this could happen and that could happen and this player could be like this if fit". Exactly the same arguments you can use for Essendon the last 3 years.

It's all moot until you actually do it. You can feel internally confident, but externally, it looks like more of the same. A bunch of high picks that aren't making finals, which is what the previous Carlton team was. Actually no, they were making finals for 3 years. "It's different because it looks like it" isn't a great argument.

Brisbane, who were at the bottom at the same time as Carlton are already contending despite having a lot of talent walk out the door. Until Carlton follow Brisbane, I'd be more reserved.

Oh and bolded is just laughable. Past 50 years. Yeah sure we can smell what the blues are cooking. Miss me with that BS.

Well you can say Melbourne are inconsistent as well, but what's the truth there? You'd want Teague to fix that up very soon or it could be a slippery slope from there. Success is built on a winning culture. Carlton certainly don't have a winning culture yet. Wait until they build it.

Carlton have a talented group of players sure. I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that you'd want to wait and see the results before making premature calls.

You’re point?

 

[freddy mercury]

Daniher and Saad left because their talents were being wasted at Essendon, who wont be contending any time soon and lack polish.

Not comparable to Richmond players leaving for opportunity, and in Brandon Ellis' case, a 300k pay rise.

I understand and agree, I'm glad they're gone on to better to things.

That being said, you Carlton campaigners are pretty cocky for a side that hasn't been a genuine contender since the 90s.

 

[Soapy V]

I understand and agree, I'm glad they're gone on to better to things.

That being said, you Carlton campaigners are pretty cocky for a side that hasn't been a genuine contender since the 90s.

Who’s cocky? Just believe we are heading in the right direction, finally. Long way to go but we are in a good spot at this stage

 

[Dadda Dave]

I understand and agree, I'm glad they're gone on to better to things.

That being said, you Carlton campaigners are pretty cocky for a side that hasn't been a genuine contender since the 90s.

But we did win a final from 9th ..

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I understand and agree, I'm glad they're gone on to better to things.

That being said, you Carlton campaigners are pretty cocky for a side that hasn't been a genuine contender since the 90s.

We have not built a cult/weird fandom around a recruiting manager like Dodoro though, especially as you have not won a final since Little Johnny Howard was PM.

No sane or sensible Blues fan is talking about flags, we are just happy to be in the conversation as a potential finalist.

It's been a hard slog since Salthouse took a massive dump on our playing list and culture, something which has taken 2 coaches since to repair, Brendon Bolton fixed the later, despite his flaws as an game day coach, which is something I will be forever thankful for)

 

[La Dispute]

Well you can say Melbourne are inconsistent as well, but what's the truth there? You'd want Teague to fix that up very soon or it could be a slippery slope from there. Success is built on a winning culture. Carlton certainly don't have a winning culture yet. Wait until they build it.

Carlton have a talented group of players sure. I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is that you'd want to wait and see the results before making premature calls.

And Melbourne will roughly be in the same bracket - anywhere between 6th and 12th - the difference being Melbourne are carrying a more developed squad. I think they’re still a bit toothless up front, and I don’t rate Goodwin as a coach, but they’d still be a decent shot for the finals. They’ve also got a decent number of star players if they can get the balance right and find some more avenues to goal, and Ben Brown is a nice addition from this POV.

I’m not sure who’s making premature calls though? We are in a group of 12-14 teams who could realistically make the finals, but the expectation is that we make the 8 given our glacial list build. Failing that Teague probably goes and Cripps (and others) may want to consider playing elsewhere. It’s not a stretch to anticipate a jump though given the players we’ve brought in to compliment the list we’ve built.

 

[Yoda_]

Talent Yes. Output No

Obviously


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[Yoda_]

Mods move this thread to the Carlton board please.

Can’t mate, would over populate the Carlton only thread about the Bombers on there board.

I’d suggest it’s the height of sadness celebrating another clubs misfortunes


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[Yoda_]

Have i stumbled onto another Carlton thread.

You’d think so with the amount of Carlton posters commenting on Essendon.


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