Hot Topic Adrian Dodoro

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Dodoro has recruited good players but he has never created a great list. It is a list that has failed consistently under a variety of coaches.

The fault for that doesn't solely lie on Dodoro's shoulders but he is a factor. And a big one at that.
I hope you don't mind that I've trimmed your post to two statements... these are to link to my point, rather than take away from your post.

I'm still of the opinion that the drug saga has killed any additions for our squad over the last seven years.

Rather than have our list development flourish over the period, our regularity of finishing just outside the 8 to 14th over many years meant we never got the best of the best. We got the best of the rest. Players who had kicking flaws, outside players versus inside players, half backs instead of full bull mids.

The one year we finished at the bottom and we got number 1 selection (poor decision still by the AFL, for mine) we got the top pick. I'm still in the McGrath camp and think he will have much more upside to his game than the others in his class. He's not a bust in any way to me, as yet.

The drug saga is what has stymied the club, where we were in a real catch 22. Discard many players after the ban was over and the club would have come out looking poor, possibly prolonging the PR fallout for more years than it actually was. But in doing so and recommitting to so many players that were mid level has, in my opinion, left us where we are today. We are still suffering from this period. While I felt that some of the list turn over should have been much more than now (read over 50% of our player threads to work out who should be gone), this is where I have lost some faith in the club.

The other waste has been getting these kids into the system and not playing them. There is no reward for form, which is killing guys in the seconds in advancing their careers. This is very dangerous, for the development that we have put into these players to then be shipped of to other clubs for them to flourish.

Out of all my observations above, this doesn't relate to Dodoro in most ways. His work is predominantly done from August through March, where the rest of the year he just tries to don as many jackets as possible and throw as many Minties down his gob that he can.

He doesn't pick the team and he doesn't run the match day tactics. That responsibility is left to others in the system.
 

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Bunk Moreland

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I could've landed McGrath and Smith/Shiel were proven AFL quality so I'm not patting him on the back for them.

Merrett was a good pick. Laverde had potential but it clearly says he played HB, Wing, HF in the article. What was wrong with picking a bloke that played inside mid instead of one that had potential?

Begley played primarily forward, again what was wrong with picking a player the played primarily a mid?

Clarke's a tagger with average disposal. Give me a crack at the draft, I'll find you a tagger no worries.


Hmm.... guess we're not better than that. 😂
Focusing purely on talent, with little regard to fit, ignores much of what a good list manager does.

Is our salary cap best used on a half dozen under sized midfield types that all have similar strengths and deficiencies?

A good list manager develops a list capable of working together cohesively. It is not to simply stockpile raw talent.
This is the thing. It’s not about patting him on the back. It’s about the critics saying what he realistically should’ve done other than what he did.

It’s always about the midfield.

We had pick 1 which he used on the best midfielder in the draft. He won the rising star. It was clearly a good pick.

Who should he have taken instead of Laverde? Who was available in that draft was a better inside mid prospect than him?

Then we had pick 5 and he used it in the best available mid in Parish. Yep, we used the next on Francis... but who should we have taken? Who are all these inside mids we should’ve taken with pick 6?

Who should we have taken instead of Begley? Who were the available inside mids?

This is the thing. People say he hasn’t built the right list and the midfield is the problem. At every turn there he’s taken the best midfield prospect. And they’ve failed due to date to injury / lack of development. And it’s all on him?

Clarke has shown an ability to find the ball. Yeah his disposal isn’t world class. Few inside mids are. He was pick 63 ffs and he’s a best 22 player. Who else would you have taken if it was so easy to find somebody?

He gets no credit for Smith. He was a small forward at GWS who was traded in for a bargain and straight away wins the B&F as a mid... that was fantastic recruiting. If it was so obvious, why did no other club try it?

On top of that we were forced to give an additional year to Watson, Hocking and Stanton as mids in 2017 because they served their bans - all of whom were clearly cooked.
 

BrunoV

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Focusing purely on talent, with little regard to fit, ignores much of what a good list manager does.

Is our salary cap best used on a half dozen under sized midfield types that all have similar strengths and deficiencies?

A good list manager develops a list capable of working together cohesively. It is not to simply stockpile raw talent.

Not to mention loading up about 1.7m on KPDs.

I suspect we'll be chasing Jack Martin too.

How many contested ball winners on our list are better than Toby McLean who is probably 6 or 7 at the Dogs.

We have 1, novelty Stringer clearance aside, and that's Dyl Clarke who cannot hit the side of a barn by foot.

Only thing that saves Dodoro as far as I'm concerned is the collective 10 quarters played by Laverde, Begley, Ridley and Redman in the middle in the past two seasons.

That's where all the strength and class on the list is.
 
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Lore

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How many contested ball winners on our list are better than Toby McLean who is probably 6 or 7 at the Dogs.

We have 1, novelty Stringet clearance aside, and that's Dyl Clarke who cannot hit the side of a barn by foot.

Only thing that saves Dodoro as far as I'm concerned is the collective 10 quarters played by Laverde, Begley, Ridley and Redman in the middle in the past two seasons.

That's where all the strength and class on the list is.
wut? Better contested ball winners than Toby McLean? McLean averages 5.9 CP this year. We have 19 players with a better season average than that. :drunk:
 

boncer34

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This is the thing. It’s not about patting him on the back. It’s about the critics saying what he realistically should’ve done other than what he did.

It’s always about the midfield.

We had pick 1 which he used on the best midfielder in the draft. He won the rising star. It was clearly a good pick.

Who should he have taken instead of Laverde? Who was available in that draft was a better inside mid prospect than him?

Then we had pick 5 and he used it in the best available mid in Parish. Yep, we used the next on Francis... but who should we have taken? Who are all these inside mids we should’ve taken with pick 6?

Who should we have taken instead of Begley? Who were the available inside mids?

This is the thing. People say he hasn’t built the right list and the midfield is the problem. At every turn there he’s taken the best midfield prospect. And they’ve failed due to date to injury / lack of development. And it’s all on him?

Clarke has shown an ability to find the ball. Yeah his disposal isn’t world class. Few inside mids are. He was pick 63 ffs and he’s a best 22 player. Who else would you have taken if it was so easy to find somebody?

He gets no credit for Smith. He was a small forward at GWS who was traded in for a bargain and straight away wins the B&F as a mid... that was fantastic recruiting. If it was so obvious, why did no other club try it?

On top of that we were forced to give an additional year to Watson, Hocking and Stanton as mids in 2017 because they served their bans - all of whom were clearly cooked.
Mate.

I'm not doing this, at no stage have I put all the blame on Dodoro. I've repeatedly said he's a part of the problem, not the whole.

And yet you keep throwing out lines like "and it's all on him?"

I think he's part of the problem. Not all.

Do you think he's totally blameless?
 
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I think there probably is a case to make for a shake up in the recruiting department but from the quick list I threw together below (all my opinion mind you and a few could be argued but I think it’s pretty close to reality) i think it’s clear the real problems lie in development and player/injury management. I havnt mentioned all players as some are just spuds (z.clarke) and others have probably already reached their best (sheil) and have played to that level this season.

The improvement lists are so far off the other 3 lists it’s a joke (8 improve vs 21 injured/stagnant/dropped off). No team is challenging for anything with those stats). Of course our list has holes but by and large the talent is there. It’s just being utilised and managed in a terrible fashion. Who does this buck stop with? Well probably multiple people. If they do end up giving Worsfold the boot I really hope they shake up the departments involved with injury management and player utilisation (development?) because we will not go far if we have season after season so affected by injury and player mismanagement (played out of position etc).

CLEAR IMPROVEMENT
  • Redman

MODEST IMPROVEMENT
  • Stringer (utilised better mostly)
  • Mckenna
  • Saad
  • Parish
  • Brown
  • Ambrose
  • D.Clarke

STAGNATED
  • Francis (Been ok but if you check footywire it’s clear he is just not marking the ball this year. Could be instruction/coaching based?)
  • Hurley (not sure he can improve but still yet to really hit his straps this year then injured)
  • Walla (could make a case for modest improvement but just too inconsistent imo)
  • Hartley
  • Laverde
  • McGrath
  • Houlahan

LARGELY INJURY AFFECTED
  • Daniher
  • Stewart
  • Fantasia
  • Smith
  • Hooker (been good but clearly playing injured for half the season)
  • Begley (could be in stagnated group if not for ACL affected start)
  • Draper (was on the improve prior to ACL)
  • Heppell (stagnated a bit mostly 2nd part of the season with footy injury)
  • Bellchambers (could be in the stagnant category)

CLEAR DROP OFF
  • Zaharakis
  • Myers
  • Baguley
  • Ridley (after being dropped and then made to play out of position. Prior was probably a modest improver or stagnant)
  • Langford
Makes for some pretty sad reading 😔.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Mate.

I'm not doing this, at no stage have I put all the blame on Dodoro. I've repeatedly said he's a part of the problem, not the whole.

And yet you keep throwing out lines like "and it's all on him?"

I think he's part of the problem. Not all.

Do you think he's totally blameless?
You also haven’t explained exactly what you think he’s done wrong

I don’t think he’s done much wrong. In fact, over the last five years I think he’s done a very good job considering what he’s had to deal with.

At our best we’re up there. This season and last we’ve beaten Geelong, West Coast, GWS twice, and run Collingwood and Richmond to a goal. This group is capable of mixing it with the top sides.

Performance and effort like that are brought far too rarely. And along with the average games we have these matches where we clearly just implode, like last night, or repeatedly early in the season. We apply zero effort or pressure.
 

BrunoV

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wut? Better contested ball winners than Toby McLean? McLean averages 5.9 CP this year. We have 19 players with a better season average than that. :drunk:

McLean plays mostly forward because he's crafty around goal and not as good as Bont, Dunkley, Libba, McRae, Smith and Wallis as an inside mid and not as effective on a wing or outside as Hunter, Richards, Lipinski and JJ.

He is a very good winner of actual contested footy not loose ball gets that CD classifies as contested possessions.

Are we seriously going to rely on numbers so we can ignore the obvious that we dont have enough inside strength and ability?
 
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boncer34

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You also haven’t explained exactly what you think he’s done wrong

I don’t think he’s done much wrong. In fact, over the last five years I think he’s done a very good job considering what he’s had to deal with.

At our best we’re up there. This season and last we’ve beaten Geelong, West Coast, GWS twice, and run Collingwood and Richmond to a goal. This group is capable of mixing it with the top sides.

Performance and effort like that are brought far too rarely. And along with the average games we have these matches where we clearly just implode, like last night, or repeatedly early in the season. We apply zero effort or pressure.
Ok we have different opinions of him.

Cool, I'm moving on. :)
 

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It’s pretty spot specific but Dodoros failings have come down to three players. Parker, Oliver and Worpel. All and sundry identified these players as needs for us predraft. Missed with Parker and didn’t trade up to guarantee Oliver or Worpel.
We missed Worpel by three or four selections and it's not easy to trade up at the pointy end of the draft Lots of hero hindsight in your post.
 

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Lore

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McLean plays mostly forward.

He is a very good winner of actual contested foory not loose ball gets that CD classifies as contested possessions.

Are we seriously going to rely on numbers so we can ignore the obvious that we dont have enough inside strength and ability?
He used to play mostly forward.

Would you prefer to make random statements and have them taken at face value without being verified?
 
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I would have said Hartley improved overall this year, just has been behind too many.
Yeah fair enough, there were a few I tossed up. Could also argue he looks to have stagnated to some because he has not gotten games in the seniors but I agree he has been very good in the VFL. Mostly I was just trying to show an overall trend with mismanagement of players and injury disasters.
 

blitzer

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I think there probably is a case to make for a shake up in the recruiting department but from the quick list I threw together below (all my opinion mind you and a few could be argued but I think it’s pretty close to reality) i think it’s clear the real problems lie in development and player/injury management. I havnt mentioned all players as some are just spuds (z.clarke) and others have probably already reached their best (sheil) and have played to that level this season.

The improvement lists are so far off the other 3 lists it’s a joke (8 improve vs 21 injured/stagnant/dropped off). No team is challenging for anything with those stats). Of course our list has holes but by and large the talent is there. It’s just being utilised and managed in a terrible fashion. Who does this buck stop with? Well probably multiple people. If they do end up giving Worsfold the boot I really hope they shake up the departments involved with injury management and player utilisation (development?) because we will not go far if we have season after season so affected by injury and player mismanagement (played out of position etc).

CLEAR IMPROVEMENT
  • Redman

MODEST IMPROVEMENT
  • Stringer (utilised better mostly)
  • Mckenna
  • Saad
  • Parish
  • Brown
  • Ambrose
  • D.Clarke

STAGNATED
  • Francis (Been ok but if you check footywire it’s clear he is just not marking the ball this year. Could be instruction/coaching based?)
  • Hurley (not sure he can improve but still yet to really hit his straps this year then injured)
  • Walla (could make a case for modest improvement but just too inconsistent imo)
  • Hartley
  • Laverde
  • McGrath
  • Houlahan

LARGELY INJURY AFFECTED
  • Daniher
  • Stewart
  • Fantasia
  • Smith
  • Hooker (been good but clearly playing injured for half the season)
  • Begley (could be in stagnated group if not for ACL affected start)
  • Draper (was on the improve prior to ACL)
  • Heppell (stagnated a bit mostly 2nd part of the season with footy injury)
  • Bellchambers (could be in the stagnant category)

CLEAR DROP OFF
  • Zaharakis
  • Myers
  • Baguley
  • Ridley (after being dropped and then made to play out of position. Prior was probably a modest improver or stagnant)
  • Langford
Makes for some pretty sad reading 😔.
General sentiment is OK but I think a few of the ranks are too negative.

I don't know how Clarke is not in clear improvement when he had only played 1 AFL game up til this year and now he's been a regular for months and has beaten some of the competitions best.

Stringer has comfortably been better too.

Mcgrath's a modest improver in my books. Starting to add goal kicking to his bow.
Walla a modest improver. Yes inconsistent but he's had some absolutely cracking games this year. Also kicking more goals than last year.

Houlahan actually has improved but he's just not AFL standard yet.

Ridley does not belong in the clear drop offs. He was playing more senior games early in the year than he had in his career up to that point and acquitting hinself well. At worst maybe a stagnation but I still think he showed plenty. The problem is we have too many ahead of him in his preferred role at AFL level.

Gleeson a successful return from injury.

Saad a clear improver.
 
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General sentiment is OK but I think a few of the ranks are too negative.

I don't know how Clarke is not in clear improvement when he had only played 1 AFL game up til this year and now he's been a regular for months and has beaten some of the competitions best.

Stringer has comfortably been better too.

Mcgrath's a modest improver in my books. Starting to add goal kicking to his bow.
Walla a modest improver. Yes inconsistent but he's had some absolutely cracking games this year. Also kicking more goals than last year.

Houlahan actually has improved but he's just not AFL standard yet.

Ridley does not belong in the clear drop offs. He was playing more senior games early in the year than he had in his career up to that point and acquitting hinself well. At worst maybe a stagnation but I still think he showed plenty. The problem is we have too many ahead of him in his preferred role at AFL level.

Gleeson a successful return from injury.

Saad a clear improver.
Could be because I am posting it after last nights debacle that I am in a negative state of mind 😥 haha. But overall I stand by the assessment I made. I do agree that aspects of certain players games might have improved a bit (McGrath hitting the scoreboard etc.) and yeah Gleeson has been a good return but didn’t really fit as improved or as stagnant. Overall if you move the ones you suggested into more positive categories it would still be quite a negative read for the most part. Our development needs a shake up and so does our conditioning (I know some injuries were unavoidable contact injuries which no one can predict). Maybe recruiting can be seen as an area in need of fresh eyes but I think Bruno’s post above made some good points about where the picks were taken and obvious alternatives not really being there at the time.
 

Red Black and Blue

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We missed Worpel by three or four selections and it's not easy to trade up at the pointy end of the draft Lots of hero hindsight in your post.
It was early third round not pointy end of the draft. The talk predraft was Worpel wouldn’t go before late 20s, nothing hindsight about it. Dodoro hasn’t shown any aptitude to upgrade draft picks when there are generally 5-6 teams doing most years or piggy backing trades to get it done.

There is nothing hindsight about everyone on this board identifying them as needs predraft. I personally wasn’t as keen on Worpel as the other two but would still have traded up to get him for list balance sake. I’m an advocate for getting as many picks in the 25-45 range as possible most years as that’s generally where the best value in the draft falls.
 
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The Donners

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It’s always about the midfield.

We had pick 1 which he used on the best midfielder in the draft. He won the rising star. It was clearly a good pick.
McGrath was playing in the backline when he won Rising Star.

He’s played 60 games now and he’s still not a lock in what is an average AFL midfield, particularly with key injuries.

These are facts.
 

Bunk Moreland

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McGrath was playing in the backline when he won Rising Star.

He’s played 60 games now and he’s still not a lock in what is an average AFL midfield, particularly with key injuries.

These are facts.
So he was a bad pick?

He was an elite underage midfielder who was clearly ready for senior footy immediately - he won the rising star

He hasn’t developed into a midfielder at senior level?

I think you’ve probably touched on something there.
 

Nuggs Bunny

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I still don't understand how McGrath was the right selection at #1 in 2016, I didn't understand it when we selected him and I don't understand it now when we have Saad and McKenna doing so well in the role that he played at junior level. To promote McKenna, recruit McGrath at #1 and then bring Saad in through trade next year seems like we're just grabbing players without any clear vision on what role they'll fulfill in the team.
 

The Donners

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So he was a bad pick?

He was an elite underage midfielder who was clearly ready for senior footy immediately - he won the rising star

He hasn’t developed into a midfielder at senior level?

I think you’ve probably touched on something there.
I’m not sure Bunk.

I don’t know if it’s our much talked about (on BF anyway) lack of development of our players, whether he’s not getting the midfield minutes, whether he may be carrying something that is reducing his acceleration, more questions than answers.

He’s talented, seems to have some tricks and not just a turn of speed. Why is he not looking to be on his way to becoming an elite midfielder of the competition?
 

Bunk Moreland

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I still don't understand how McGrath was the right selection at #1 in 2016, I didn't understand it when we selected him and I don't understand it now when we have Saad and McKenna doing so well in the role that he played at junior level. To promote McKenna, recruit McGrath at #1 and then bring Saad in through trade next year seems like we're just grabbing players without any clear vision on what role they'll fulfill in the team.
They’re half backs.

McGrath was and is capable as a mid. He averaged 32 touches in the TAC Cup. He had 38 (21 contested) winning the medal in the grand final.

I understand starting him at half back, but I have zero doubt he was drafted to play midfield.
 

The Donners

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I still don't understand how McGrath was the right selection at #1 in 2016, I didn't understand it when we selected him and I don't understand it now when we have Saad and McKenna doing so well in the role that he played at junior level. To promote McKenna, recruit McGrath at #1 and then bring Saad in through trade next year seems like we're just grabbing players without any clear vision on what role they'll fulfill in the team.
No doubt McGrath was earmarked for the midfield. If he wasn’t it was a poor choice.
 

yaco55

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It was early third round not pointy end of the draft. The talk predraft was Worpel wouldn’t go before late 20s, nothing hindsight about it. Dodoro hasn’t shown any aptitude to upgrade draft picks when there are generally 5-6 teams doing most years or piggy backing trades to get it done.

There is nothing hindsight about everyone on this board identifying them as needs predraft. I personally wasn’t as keen on Worpel as the other two but would still have traded up to get him for list balance sake. I’m an advocate for getting as many picks in the 25-45 range as possible most years as that’s generally where the best value in the draft falls.
So another team selected Worpel before our selection - It happens to every team in every draft - Trading up is a theoretical concept which doesn't usually happen in practice - The only player you listed in which you have a reasonable argument is Parker - He was a gun under age player in the under 18's and seemed to coast through his top year which obviously deterred most clubs - He was the one EFC could have chosen.
 

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