Hot Topic Adrian Dodoro

Red Black and Blue

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So another team selected Worpel before our selection - It happens to every team in every draft - Trading up is a theoretical concept which doesn't usually happen in practice - The only player you listed in which you have a reasonable argument is Parker - He was a gun under age player in the under 18's and seemed to coast through his top year which obviously deterred most clubs - He was the one EFC could have chosen.
Trading up happens a lot more than your implying. It happened to us with one of these players; Melbourne traded up with Gold Coast to jump our picks and take Oliver.

The issue is we’ve had a gaping hole in our list and Dodoro hasn’t addressed it. Not having the picks isn’t an excuse when trading up was a method available to him that he hasn’t taken. At what point in time does an inability or unwillingness to address the most important position on the ground become a fatal error for him?
 
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citizen-erased

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They’re half backs.

McGrath was and is capable as a mid. He averaged 32 touches in the TAC Cup. He had 38 (21 contested) winning the medal in the grand final.

I understand starting him at half back, but I have zero doubt he was drafted to play midfield.
Needs to begin from next year.
No more wing. Inside mid.
 

Nuggs Bunny

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They’re half backs.

McGrath was and is capable as a mid. He averaged 32 touches in the TAC Cup. He had 38 (21 contested) winning the medal in the grand final.

I understand starting him at half back, but I have zero doubt he was drafted to play midfield.
McGrath was a half-back for virtually the entire TAC Cup campaign and during the Championships, no?

This isn't a slight on his abilities but recruiting him as a half back with the view for him to play midfield seems needlessly risky over drafting a player that had a junior campaign that was just as impressive AND played the entirety of it in the midfield in Hugh McCluggage, who I thought we were going to take.
 

calyam

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So he was a bad pick?

He was an elite underage midfielder who was clearly ready for senior footy immediately - he won the rising star

He hasn’t developed into a midfielder at senior level?

I think you’ve probably touched on something there.
The issue isn't that McGrath is a bad player, or that he won't have a long and productive AFL career, it is that he wasn't the best fit.

We weren't desperate for a speedy undersized small defender / midfielder when we drafted McGrath. We were desperate for a big bodied midfielder (Taranto) and a goal kicking midfielder with impeccable skills (McCluggage).

McGrath wasn't clearly the best talent available, that had been McCluggage all year, and he clearly wasn't the best fit. In that regard, it was an odd pick.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Trading up happens a lot more than your implying. It happened to us with one of these players; Melbourne traded up with Gold Coast to jump our picks and take Oliver.

The issue is we’ve had a gaping hole in our list and Dodoro hasn’t addressed it. Not having the picks isn’t an excuse when trading up was a method available to him that he hasn’t taken. At what point in time does an inability or unwillingness to address the most important position on the ground become a fatal error for him?
It only comes up every time we have an insipid performance like last night.

Performances like last night have nothing to do with recruiting.

We could’ve had a great inside mid last night and it wouldn’t have made the slightest difference.

This group can compete with the best and they do so on a semi-regular basis. For whatever reason, we have appalling performances quite regularly.

It’s Worsfold’s responsibility.
 

BrunoV

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He used to play mostly forward.

Would you prefer to make random statements and have them taken at face value without being verified?

I don't know what you think you're verifying.

McLean is a bit part mid as I explained in my post. On what I have seen he is better in a scrap for the ball than everyone other than Clarke.
 

Lore

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I don't know what you think you're verifying.

McLean is a bit part mid as I explained in my post. On what I have seen he is better in a scrap for the ball than everyone other than Clarke.
Your post/s state that we have one contested ball winner in our entire side that's better than Toby McLean of all people. That statement doesn't pass the sniff test let alone anything involving actual analysis.
 

Red Black and Blue

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It only comes up every time we have an insipid performance like last night.

Performances like last night have nothing to do with recruiting.

We could’ve had a great inside mid last night and it wouldn’t have made the slightest difference.

This group can compete with the best and they do so on a semi-regular basis. For whatever reason, we have appalling performances quite regularly.

It’s Worsfold’s responsibility.
Firstly every team can compete with the best occasionally, it’s the consistency that makes you a good team. Semi regularly is an overstatement. We have occasionally caught good teams on bad nights like West Coast last year. But constantly have no answer when the cream are switched on.

While I don’t disagree that an elite inside midfielder or two would have changed the result, it would change our process going forward.

If we analyse where we got smashed last night, it started at the contest and bled outwards. Same as always we try to outnumber at the stoppage to win the ball or pressure them into making errors. Problem is if we win it we don’t have composure or outlets to use as they are all within two metres of each other and we gave the ball back to them in the air. Partially midfield fault partially forwards fault because they are all s**t in the air and don’t compete at AFL standard (bar Laverde). When we lost at the contest, they broke our tackles with ease and had loose men on the outside and were able to draw the next defender all the way down the field all stemming from overcommitting numbers at the contest.

Our entire structure is built to compensate for lack of inside midfielders and to score from means outside of stoppages. What to solve our outside game and structure, solve our inside one first.
 
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The issue isn't that McGrath is a bad player, or that he won't have a long and productive AFL career, it is that he wasn't the best fit.

We weren't desperate for a speedy undersized small defender / midfielder when we drafted McGrath. We were desperate for a big bodied midfielder (Taranto) and a goal kicking midfielder with impeccable skills (McCluggage).

McGrath wasn't clearly the best talent available, that had been McCluggage all year, and he clearly wasn't the best fit. In that regard, it was an odd pick.
Hindsight heroes stuff again.

Can you blame a recruiter for taking the safe option and taking the lock with the least question marks in McGrath?

Can you blame a recruiter for not taking a bloke who had barely played all year, probably didn’t want to play for your club and had just done a runner from a breath test and instead taking another lock with few question marks (Parish over Curnow)?

If you know they’re going to pan out after the fact of course you take the higher risk higher reward option, but this is the real world and botched picks have consequences.
 

Bunk Moreland

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Firstly every team can compete with the best occasionally, it’s the consistency that makes you a good team.

While I don’t disagree that an elite inside midfielder or two would have changed the result, it would change our process going forward.

If we analyse where we got smashed last night, it started at the contest and bled outwards. Same as always we try to outnumber at the stoppage to win the ball or pressure them into making errors. Problem is if we win it we don’t have composure or outlets to use as they are all within two metres of each other and we gave the ball back to them in the air. Partially midfield fault partially forwards fault because they are all s**t in the air and don’t compete at AFL standard (bar Laverde). When we lost at the contest, they broke our tackles with ease and had loose men on the outside and were able to draw the next defender all the way down the field all stemming from overcommitting numbers at the contest.

Our entire structure is built to compensate for lack of inside midfielders and to score from means outside of stoppages. What to solve our outside game and structure, solve our inside one first.
Except they don’t. They simply cannot, and they don’t.

Gold Coast. Carlton under Bolton. They were not capable of getting anywhere near the top sides and they never do.

I bring them up those two examples because make no mistake, that’s the level we played at last night.

We do it regularly. 6-8 times over the past 18 months we’ve totally matched it with top 2 or top 4 sides. Beaten them or run them to a goal. It’s not some fluke, it’s happened plenty of times.

This group is capable.

Im confident in saying there’s not a team in the league with the incredible gap between their best and worst that we have.

Something happens that makes this team - that can match and beat the best - play like Bolton Carlton or Gold Coast sometimes.

As much as people like to say “it’s been like this for 15 years”, it hasn’t. We’ve been s**t at times, and the side has consistently played below itself for long periods before (generally ASAGA related), and the club has had hugely identifiable tactical issues before (under Knights), that were there every week.

But it has never had this ability to completely implode into rank uncompetitiveness randomly like this.

The first clue to it is obviously pre-seasons. We do something that has us shockingly unprepared for the season.
 

BrunoV

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Your post/s state that we have one contested ball winner in our entire side that's better than Toby McLean of all people. That statement doesn't pass the sniff test let alone anything involving actual analysis.

And relying on a stat which demonstrates loose ball gets says what in response?

We've been swimming against the real contested ball tide for 3 years now. Our response is to load up with more midgets and non-aggressive players.

A better way of looking at this is that the Dogs have murdered us around the ball at least as far back as the time Carlisle kicked 8 to get us over the line.
 

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Red Black and Blue

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Except they don’t. They simply cannot, and they don’t.

Gold Coast. Carlton under Bolton. They were not capable of getting anywhere near the top sides and they never do.

I bring them up those two examples because make no mistake, that’s the level we played at last night.

We do it regularly. 6-8 times over the past 18 months we’ve totally matched it with top 2 or top 4 sides. Beaten them or run them to a goal. It’s not some fluke, it’s happened plenty of times.

This group is capable.

Im confident in saying there’s not a team in the league with the incredible gap between their best and worst that we have.

Something happens that makes this team - that can match and beat the best - play like Bolton Carlton or Gold Coast sometimes.

As much as people like to say “it’s been like this for 15 years”, it hasn’t. We’ve been s**t at times, and the side has consistently played below itself for long periods before (generally ASAGA related), and the club has had hugely identifiable tactical issues before (under Knights), that were there every week.

But it has never had this ability to completely implode into rank uncompetitiveness randomly like this.

The first clue to it is obviously pre-seasons. We do something that has us shockingly unprepared for the season.
Gold Coast were very good against the Eagles and Cats early in the year and Blues with Bolts ran a much stronger Collingwood team to a kick. We are better than them but certainly not anywhere near consistent enough to even consider ourselves almost contenders ourselves. We have some elite tricks that can roll anyone but also gapping weaknesses that can get exposed by anyone.
 

calyam

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Hindsight heroes stuff again.

Can you blame a recruiter for taking the safe option and taking the lock with the least question marks in McGrath?

Can you blame a recruiter for not taking a bloke who had barely played all year, probably didn’t want to play for your club and had just done a runner from a breath test and instead taking another lock with few question marks (Parish over Curnow)?

If you know they’re going to pan out after the fact of course you take the higher risk higher reward option, but this is the real world and botched picks have consequences.
'Hindsight heroes' my arse. That's lazy and disingenuous.

McGrath wasn't the best fit for our list and he didn't fill our most pressing need. That is the real world. It was true before he was drafted and it is glaringly obvious today.

McCluggage was the concensus first pick until the TAC finals. McGrath wasn't even considered a top three chance until he had a great final series. Recruiters such as Dodoro threw away an entire seasons worth of form and evidence in favour of a couple of games of footy. Dodoro fell prey to recency bias. McGrath was never the safe option, that was McCluggage. There was more evidence that he was an outstanding prospect than there was for any other player in the draft that year.

Stop making apologies for mediocrity.
 

Kwality

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McGrath was a half-back for virtually the entire TAC Cup campaign and during the Championships, no?

This isn't a slight on his abilities but recruiting him as a half back with the view for him to play midfield seems needlessly risky over drafting a player that had a junior campaign that was just as impressive AND played the entirety of it in the midfield in Hugh McCluggage, who I thought we were going to take.
TAC Cup means squatt in season 3 of an AFL career.
Dodoro needs to project way beyond schoolboy footy, & at 50+ games McGrath .... big year 2020, he's got it, not Dodoro though.
 

Keystone agony

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Developments becoming a major issue

Surely we cant just miss that much in the draft. I mean everyone had guys like Mcgrath, Mutch, Laverde, Ridkey, Langford, Parish, Francis ect ect around the mark. Other clubs just seem to be able to develop players ie Stack, Rowbottom, Worpel. The Sydney, Hawks, Eagles, Pies strong clubs just get it so right

Our talent seems to be kept 'behind too many' as if it were those ahead that were putting us into the top 4 every year. Thats not the case.
 

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'Hindsight heroes' my arse. That's lazy and disingenuous.

McGrath wasn't the best fit for our list and he didn't fill our most pressing need. That is the real world. It was true before he was drafted and it is glaringly obvious today.

McCluggage was the concensus first pick until the TAC finals. McGrath wasn't even considered a top three chance until he had a great final series. Recruiters such as Dodoro threw away an entire seasons worth of form and evidence in favour of a couple of games of footy. Dodoro fell prey to recency bias. McGrath was never the safe option, that was McCluggage. There was more evidence that he was an outstanding prospect than there was for any other player in the draft that year.

Stop making apologies for mediocrity.
I’m not making apologies for anything, I’m just giving context. If McClug is so great (and he is) then GWS would have taken him, rather than trading up to try and get McGrath.

McGrath has already proven just as much as the other two and everyone else in that draft by virtue of a genuine two way understanding, and an ability to defend the most dangerous smalls while providing rebound. Just because we’re trying to develop him into more than that doesn’t mean he’s not still that.

He wasn’t all that far off what Saad is doing now as an 18 year old straight off the bat.
 

F_therest

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I’m not making apologies for anything, I’m just giving context. If McClug is so great (and he is) then GWS would have taken him, rather than trading up to try and get McGrath.

McGrath has already proven just as much as the other two and everyone else in that draft by virtue of a genuine two way understanding, and an ability to defend the most dangerous smalls while providing rebound. Just because we’re trying to develop him into more than that doesn’t mean he’s not still that.

He wasn’t all that far off what Saad is doing now as an 18 year old straight off the bat.
You've missed his point entirely...he's not saying McGrath won't become a gun player, just that the team could do with the TYPE of player McCluggage/Taranto are instead of McGrath - guys who played midfield basically their whole junior careers.

You've basically backed him up by saying Mcrath is defending dangerous smalls and offering rebound like Saad...but you could have drafted a pure midfielder instead of a guy who played mostly half back in juniors and a little bit of midfield.

Missed the point again with your GWS comment...maybe GWS tried to trade up for him because they do in fact need a half back rebounder with speed and would have played him mainly in that role, instead of trying to turn him into a mid.
 

yaco55

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Trading up happens a lot more than your implying. It happened to us with one of these players; Melbourne traded up with Gold Coast to jump our picks and take Oliver.

The issue is we’ve had a gaping hole in our list and Dodoro hasn’t addressed it. Not having the picks isn’t an excuse when trading up was a method available to him that he hasn’t taken. At what point in time does an inability or unwillingness to address the most important position on the ground become a fatal error for him?
Dodoro may not have been interested in Oliver who if you remember never played in the under 18 championship, came good in the second half of the TAC Cup, in which the competition standard is lower because of the missing 'private school boys' - Oliver was a late bolter who wasn't top 20 in phantom drafts only a month or two before the draft - I understand Dodoro wanted Worpel but Hawthorn had an selection - When you are rating a player a third rounder then you hardly have the need to upgrade a selection.
 

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I’m not making apologies for anything, I’m just giving context. If McClug is so great (and he is) then GWS would have taken him, rather than trading up to try and get McGrath.

McGrath has already proven just as much as the other two and everyone else in that draft by virtue of a genuine two way understanding, and an ability to defend the most dangerous smalls while providing rebound. Just because we’re trying to develop him into more than that doesn’t mean he’s not still that.

He wasn’t all that far off what Saad is doing now as an 18 year old straight off the bat.
You’ve lost me here.

We needed a pure midfielder and instead we have a good small defender?
 

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you can say what you like about the midfield, but it has shown across the year its perfectly adequate.

there is one reason and one alone why he should be called into question.

How he let the state of our ruck department descent into this position is criminal.

A cursory look across most other teams lists shows each team with a handfull of ruck options, some senior, some developing, but options.

We have one injury prone bloke, one developing rookie who unfortunatley got injured and a throw at the stumps which clearly hasnt worked.

You can say he suffered bad luck with drapers injury but nobody can say he was ready to take over anyway, hes still developing.

It was only a matter of time before big tbell suffered annother injury, where was his planning? a middling wafl guy who had never cut it in the afl before?

Its a travesty how he let it come to this, and not only that, they actually gave him a second chance to rectify it! they created a mid season draft!... what does he do? grab a midget mid. Beggars belief.

There is only one thing that has derailed out year and stopped it dead, its not the mids or the back or the fwds..or development or whatever else, its the pitiful ruck department and how Mr list manger neglected it all this time, hes just ran it intio the ground. Year upon year we say he will grab a ruck this year, surley, year upon year he says nah, we can do it next year. Chickens have come home to roost.
 

The Donners

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you can say what you like about the midfield, but it has shown across the year its perfectly adequate.

there is one reason and one alone why he should be called into question.

How he let the state of our ruck department descent into this position is criminal.

A cursory look across most other teams lists shows each team with a handfull of ruck options, some senior, some developing, but options.

We have one injury prone bloke, one developing rookie who unfortunatley got injured and a throw at the stumps which clearly hasnt worked.

You can say he suffered bad luck with drapers injury but nobody can say he was ready to take over anyway, hes still developing.

It was only a matter of time before big tbell suffered annother injury, where was his planning? a middling wafl guy who had never cut it in the afl before?

Its a travesty how he let it come to this, and not only that, they actually gave him a second chance to rectify it! they created a mid season draft!... what does he do? grab a midget mid. Beggars belief.

There is only one thing that has derailed out year and stopped it dead, its not the mids or the back or the fwds..or development or whatever else, its the pitiful ruck department and how Mr list manger neglected it all this time, hes just ran it intio the ground. Year upon year we say he will grab a ruck this year, surley, year upon year he says nah, we can do it next year. Chickens have come home to roost.
We were 7 and 7 with Bellchambers (excludes game he went down) and we’ll finish the season 11 and 11.
 

scottmclaren

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a middling wafl guy who had never cut it in the afl before?

Its a travesty how he let it come to this, and not only that, they actually gave him a second chance to rectify it! they created a mid season draft!... what does he do? grab a midget mid. Beggars belief.
What’s your point? The mid season draft only does middling state league players. You want him to double down and replace Zac Clarke with a worse Zac Clarke?

i do wonder if they thought Leuenberger would go again and play the Zac Clarke role this year.

If anything it just shows how much of a hole Daniher leaves in our list.
 

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