Analysis AFC finances - Rich Club, Poor Club?

[Vader]

View attachment 341974

So, a poster with tagline THE BEAST is up to post #666

Not a coincidence. The system automatically changes the tagline when a poster is on 666 posts.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Look it's may seem difficult to comprehend but we need a new base.... it may have to be north or south but we need it simples!
Sign some agreement with a new development and a council and build a massive complex!

 

[mistylake]

Near city base would justify the cost since we would be able to put a tavern on it, play home SANFL & AFLW games that bring people to that tavern as well as catering income and gate ticket sales. As well as a place for AFC fans to go to watch away games.

Thebby the obvious choice. Aquatic centre next door and that big reserve. Only 1.3 k walk from the tram.

 

[fabs33]

From memory, Kane McGoodwin will confirm/deny, the accelerated depreciation excuse of Triggy a few years ago was a complete furphy. The p&l showed consistent depreciation and the loss was mostly due to decreased sponsorship income despite them all "signing on in droves".

I'm just glad he 'accelerated' out of here. I got the distinct impression that Trigg's style of management was to just renew old agreements, which simply wasn't enough in the long run. Consequently we stagnated and as a reflex he began to cut expenditure in our football department, leaving us towards the bottom of the league in that regard.

 

[jenny61_99]

Not a coincidence. The system automatically changes the tagline when a poster is on 666 posts.

I remember that! (all those thousands of posts ago!)

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Fun Fact - the saying used to be "get your head red" but Kochie had it changed.

Q: What's black & white and red all over
A: something something China

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

If the other stuff doesn't matter why worry about it all?

The Accounting Standards are more worried about Balance Sheet than Profit & Loss. Most attention is focussed on making sure Assets and Liabilities are valued appropriately. For liabilities, all stated in full, and for assets, all valued conservatively.

All Statutory Profit is, is the growth/reduction in the net asset position.

So our statutory loss means our net assets went down.

But what actually went down? I don't know, they haven't release a Balance Sheet. But sounds like cash went up, don't think debt went down. May be some provisions, prepayments, accruals - and that's where accountant gets creative and organisations busting their nut to show any sort of profit will make adjustments to just get themselves over the line (know anyone like that?)

My guess is its all reduction in the Fixed Asset line, and if we don't have a need to maintain our Fixed Asset position, then the depreciation, amortisation, impairment of the fixed assets means SFA.

 

[Rotayjay]

Because of non-cash items like say, depreciation, which are part of the accounting standards.

If I simplify it a touch, say the AFC makes revenues of $48.5M from ticket sales, sponsorships, merchandise. Say also that it costs them $47M in wages, player payments, admin, to run the club. That leaves them with $1.5M in operating profit, so basically $1.5M extra cash comes in the door every year.

But, for example:

We have a thing called depreciation, where we take the value of an asset we paid for - say a $20M training centre - and spread the apparent cost of using that asset over it's useful life, say 20 years. If we straight-line it, after 10 years it's only worth $10M, after 15 years it's only worth $5M (ignoring what we'd actually get for it on the market).

This depreciation is counted against our operating profit, so suddenly cash profit is still $1.5M (i.e., we've $1.5M more cash in the bank) but operating profit is $0.5M (because we took off $1M in depreciation).

The real trick, is making sure you take in enough cash, to be able to buy a new training centre in the future. That's why stat accounts are important - it's great to be making more cash, but if you're bringing in cash but don't make enough to replace the assets you're using to generate that cash, you're going to run into trouble when those assets fail.

I've emailed the club for a copy of the financials, I'll go through them when they turn up. In the meantime,

http://www.michaelwest.com.au/how-goldman-sachs-and-australias-biggest-brewer-sab-pay-no-tax/

I suppose the final word on it is a little saying an old boss of mine used to have:

"Profit is vanity, Balance Sheet is sanity, Cashflow is king"

A P&L can say anything you want it to, but a Balance Sheet will always* tell you how a company is doing, and without positive cashflow you're in trouble.

*usually

Reminds me of accounting classes all those years ago. Yergh

 

[Great8]

Look it's may seem difficult to comprehend but we need a new base.... it may have to be north or south but we need it simples!
Sign some agreement with a new development and a council and build a massive complex!

Your current training base is rent free and there is no way on earth the SANFL will let you play games at another venue. Part of your conditions of entry to the SANFL was that you would give up all rights to playing home games. At a guess I'd think you will be playing in the VFL in 2 years time so perhaps then you could use Thebby or elsewhere

 

[Pdub]

Your current training base is rent free and there is no way on earth the SANFL will let you play games at another venue. Part of your conditions of entry to the SANFL was that you would give up all rights to playing home games. At a guess I'd think you will be playing in the VFL in 2 years time so perhaps then you could use Thebby or elsewhere

Part of our conditions of entry to the SANFL was also that Port and Crows would operate under the same rules, but Port got our of paying the other SANFL clubs and were allowed to keep their home games.

 

[TrainRoo32]

Your current training base is rent free and there is no way on earth the SANFL will let you play games at another venue. Part of your conditions of entry to the SANFL was that you would give up all rights to playing home games. At a guess I'd think you will be playing in the VFL in 2 years time so perhaps then you could use Thebby or elsewhere

I mean it in the same sense as Adelaide United! Where we play doesn't change!
If West Lakes is gonna be like a suburban oval we can't really stay there long term!

 

[ryan_7911]

Would love to have a look at the financials, people are saying debt is reducing where is this info coming from?

Why are expenses such as the payments to the afl, sanfl and government not being included in the operating profit?

 

[Great8]

The article reckons we contributed $2.69m to the SANFL for our stand alone team. Surely that's not right. That equates to about $2,700 per person for 40 people to travel 25 times. If we're going to spend that much I hope we end up in the VFL and we can fly opponents over and have home double headers.

My understanding is you pay $400k a year to play in the SANFL, the other $2.29m would be the SANFL's share from the SMA that the SANFL are entitled to

 

[MRB37]

My understanding is you pay $400k a year to play in the SANFL, the other $2.29m would be the SANFL's share from the SMA that the SANFL are entitled to

I imagine a chunk of that would be a payment to the SANFL for our license too.

 

[MRB37]

I was under the impression that the SANFL deal ran for 15 years and could only be terminated via mutual consent? If we're making easy cash for the SANFL then I can't see them letting us out of the deal to go to the VFL.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Near city base would justify the cost since we would be able to put a tavern on it, play home SANFL & AFLW games that bring people to that tavern as well as catering income and gate ticket sales. As well as a place for AFC fans to go to watch away games.

That sounds great but there is no precedent in AFL for this - not that that's a bad thing but why isn't there ?

 

[Slippery Pete]

http://www.afc.com.au/news/2017-03-02/crows-announce-board-change

Current Football Director Mark Ricciuto has also been re-elected unopposed on a two-year term following the recent Members’ election process.

What member election process? Maybe I missed the memo.

PS - I wish they'd stop capitalizing members and club. They're not proper nouns.

 

[Pdub]

That sounds great but there is no precedent in AFL for this - not that that's a bad thing but why isn't there ?

Port have the port club. Not an AFL club but Southport Sharks do it perfectly on the gold coast http://southportsharks.com.au/

 

[Great8]

I was under the impression that the SANFL deal ran for 15 years and could only be terminated via mutual consent? If we're making easy cash for the SANFL then I can't see them letting us out of the deal to go to the VFL.

How are you making easy cash for us?
You pay $50k per club per year to play in the comp but I'd guess most clubs are losing more than that by the people that have left in droves since the two sides entered.

 

[1970crow]

The Accounting Standards are more worried about Balance Sheet than Profit & Loss. Most attention is focussed on making sure Assets and Liabilities are valued appropriately. For liabilities, all stated in full, and for assets, all valued conservatively.

All Statutory Profit is, is the growth/reduction in the net asset position.

So our statutory loss means our net assets went down.

But what actually went down? I don't know, they haven't release a Balance Sheet. But sounds like cash went up, don't think debt went down. May be some provisions, prepayments, accruals - and that's where accountant gets creative and organisations busting their nut to show any sort of profit will make adjustments to just get themselves over the line (know anyone like that?)

My guess is its all reduction in the Fixed Asset line, and if we don't have a need to maintain our Fixed Asset position, then the depreciation, amortisation, impairment of the fixed assets means SFA.

The operating profit was an artificial line drawn in the sand prior to distributions which I don't think are discretionary. So I don't think there's any evidence that cash went up at this stage. Your last paragraph is the oddest accounting view I've read. Our major fixed asset has a defined useful life courtesy of surrounding development. In our position, depreciation of buildings is actually exceptionally meaningful as we'll be needing to replace it in 20 years time. Ordinarily, you can argue it isn't as many structures outlive their 40 year expected useful life, but ours will not.

 

[Geoffa32]

The operating profit was an artificial line drawn in the sand prior to distributions which I don't think are discretionary. So I don't think there's any evidence that cash went up at this stage. Your last paragraph is the oddest accounting view I've read. Our major fixed asset has a defined useful life courtesy of surrounding development. In our position, depreciation of buildings is actually exceptionally meaningful as we'll be needing to replace it in 20 years time. Ordinarily, you can argue it isn't as many structures outlive their 40 year expected useful life, but ours will not.

We should redevelop and sell our building as apartments......

The Block 2025

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

The operating profit was an artificial line drawn in the sand prior to distributions which I don't think are discretionary. So I don't think there's any evidence that cash went up at this stage. Your last paragraph is the oddest accounting view I've read. Our major fixed asset has a defined useful life courtesy of surrounding development. In our position, depreciation of buildings is actually exceptionally meaningful as we'll be needing to replace it in 20 years time. Ordinarily, you can argue it isn't as many structures outlive their 40 year expected useful life, but ours will not.

I said in an earlier post its all pissing in the wind without the financials. I am not sure the club would be looking to maintain $25m net fixed assets. Depreciation in and of itself is meaningless. The money's been spent, its just a book entry how it is expensed. Depreciation doesn't mean decline in market or recoverable value either.

 

[dogs105]

Not a coincidence. The system automatically changes the tagline when a poster is on 666 posts.

And Sith Lord when they hit 32,000

 

[GameofSloanes]

View attachment 341974

So, a poster with tagline THE BEAST is up to post #666

How apt for this thread

also, i think the ? in your post may be replaced by "put in vending machine in Japan"

Pretty sure that happens automatically when everyone reaches post 666. It did for me, freaked me out

EDIT: Too late!

 

[Elite Crow]

Chapman on MMM, $2.69M grant to SANFL is for game development and to play in the competition.

We paid $1M equalisation tax which they have argued against and hoping not to pay going forward. How much did Port receive before the Port flogs gloat about our result.