Autopsy AFL 2020 GRAND FINAL - Richmond v Geelong Sat October 24th 7:30pm AEDT/6:30PM AEST (Gabba) Match Highlights in OP

Who will win the 2020 Grand Final and by how much?

  • Tigers by a goal or less

    Votes: 9 2.9%

  • Cats by a goal or less

    Votes: 7 2.3%

  • Tigers by 7 - 20

    Votes: 122 39.6%

  • Cats by 7 - 20

    Votes: 79 25.6%

  • Tigers by a lot

    Votes: 53 17.2%

  • Cats by a lot

    Votes: 26 8.4%

  • Draw - Tigers in extra time

    Votes: 4 1.3%

  • Draw - Cats in extra time

    Votes: 8 2.6%
  • Total voters
    308
  • Poll closed .

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L_W_P said:
Hardwick has to go down as one of the greatest coaches of all time.

You look at this team on paper, compare it to the Lions, Cats & Hawks eras of the last 20 years. Heck, on paper, this team doesn't stack up to the 09/10 Saints or to 10/11 Magpies.

But Dimma has changed the foundation of the competition with his approach.

Yes he has a system. Yes he has a method. Beyond that though he appears to just 'let them play' and the whole team embraces each other and wills themselves to be better.

Then you add in Martin. The finals GOAT. Never have we see a guy switch it on in big games like he does. It's like Michael Jordan, LeBron James or Tom Brady. Incredible.

Right now it feels like age it the only thing that can stop them. Time catching up on JRoo & Houli, Cotch maybe slows down a step... But that's the beauty of the system. Dimma will pull one cog out of the machine & bolt another one in there like he did with Balta & Rance.

Congratulations Tigers. This was the hardest flag to win since the war era. The logistics and people management alone are staggering.

How does anyone stop this mob in 2021?
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Honestly, the whole “tigers rely on system thing is overselled a bit.” Theres truth to it, but on paper, we have just as many B graders as most premiership sides. People seem to just assume our role players are no good and dont take the time to actually watch them.

I think either the system narrative has been going on so long that people cant see past it or people forget that ever flag side has had its Jason Castagna or Kamdyn Mcintosh.

Tldr Yes we have a great system, but people underrate our team on paper
 
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Mate,I thought we were done in the first half,that one goal by Dusty gave me hope but with Vlastuin,one of our backline generals out ,I thought maybe this time is a bridge too far but not this club,incredible fight,now realising Bachar running around on one leg due to a torn calf for the majority of the match.

Geelong threw big punches in boxing terms,we stayed on the ropes to absorb the punishment then our stamina made them wilt in the second half,Geelong were tired but that was their best fight of the 3 finals and they nearly had us so kudos to them.

Chris Scott ,I think after the Cats joined Richmond in the hub,has grown to respect our club so I will cut him some slack,haven’t seen his presser yet but the way the two coaches embraced each other before the game,was a heart warming gesture for mine.
 
RichLeMonde said:
Don't agree with this. Danger is not as elite a kick as some, but I went through some stats and looked at goals plus goal-assists for mids, and the only mids who have had multiple seasons averaging > 2.5 goals + goal assists were GAJ, Dusty, Danger a bit behind them, and then daylight to the next player. He's not as good a field kick as a Darren Jarman or a Nathan Buckley, but he can kick goals and hit guys on the tit well enough to get involved in scores more than just about any other mid in history.
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Look if it wasn't for the hype he generates (and his smug, up himself attitude I guess) it'd be easier to appreciate what he has done.

Leigh Mathews averaged 2.8 goals across his entire career. Barry Cable, who gave Matthews an absolute bath in one particular final a generation ago had more goals than Danger as well. But there are no stats available for GA back then that I can find in a quick lazy search but I remember Cable setting up goals all the time. Tho I really only saw a little of the end of his career and was very young.

It's interesting you mention Jarman and Buckley too. One was vital in two flags, the other unable to drag his team across the line in two flags. Buckley was a great player too and most people would have him miles above Jarman but I dunn if that's a good assessment either.

Footy isn't just skills and stats, it's also about winning a contest when it really matters. Dangerfield has ripped us (North) apart plenty of times and smashed contests to do it. Against the likes of Ziebell, Cunners and Swallow who were/are not soft players by any means. But last night when it mattered he just wasn't there. Compared to Ablett who was basically crippled but still hard at the ball. That has to stand against him in his historical assessment as a player. Unless he turns it around next year.

When Dangerfield went to Geelong there was talk of another dynasty like they had in the late '00s, with Ablet as a superstar player. It's Richmond that have built that dynasty tho, (while Geelong are more like the bath water drinking team they were thirty years ago.) And the Tigers have one player who is entering the conversation as someone in the same company as Matthews, Carey and Ablett Jr. Martin is one of the most decorated and best performed finals players of all time.

That is as important as stats IMO.
 
smasha said:
Mate,I thought we were done in the first half,that one goal by Dusty gave me hope but with Vlastuin,one of our backline generals out ,I thought maybe this time is a bridge too far but not this club,incredible fight,now realising Bachar running around on one leg due to a torn calf for the majority of the match.

Geelong threw big punches in boxing terms,we stayed on the ropes to absorb the punishment then our stamina made them wilt in the second half,Geelong were tired but that was their best fight of the 3 finals and they nearly had us so kudos to them.

Chris Scott ,I think after the Cats joined Richmond in the hub,has grown to respect our club so I will cut him some slack,haven’t seen his presser yet but the way the two coaches embraced each other before the game,was a heart warming gesture for mine.
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I agree, I personally was not a Chris Scott fan at all but the way he has conducted himself this year with a no fuss attitude and embracing the challenges has been all class. Touching moment with Dimma before the bounce, loved it.

Also very sad for GAJ that there could be only one winner but he should be proud of his career and couldn't ask for a better last match to go out (GF not loss). He seems like a good man & father aswell. He is in the GOAT conversation for sure.

Personally I think all the top 4 teams coaches have been really great.
Hinkley & Fagan were class after their losses as well listening to their presses. Much respect to all.
 
Something that really stood out to me was what Chris Scott said post game re: Dangerfield

Scott said Dangerfield came off half way through the third quarter. Scott asked Dangerfield if he should go in the midfield and Dangerfield said no, he wants to stay up forward

Firstly, why is the coach asking where a player wants to play? I dont care if its Dangerfield or not, you tell him where to play. You are the coach you dong. To me it sounded like Scott wanted him to play in the midfield but was too scared of hurting his feelings, so had to ask for permission first like a school girl asking her high school crush to the dance. It was very very weak

Secondly, why is Dangerfield not wanting to go into the midfield? You just spend a entire half of a quarter nowhere near the ball. 99% of players would be saying "I need to get near the ball" in his spot so why not him? The excuse given was that he wanted to put trust in the midfield group to turn it around but reality is the midfield group wants your help, not your trust. Richmond won the game by throwing extra numbers into the midfield and running over the top of them. It was clear as day that Geelongs midfield was running out of legs. Dangerfield should have put his legs in there and not his mythical trust.

People want to say "this game proves the difference between Martin and Dangerfield". I tend to disagree. The difference has always been there and this is why. Martin wants the contest, Dangerfield doesnt. Martin wants to do it all, Dangerfiels doesnt. Martin wants to lift his side, Dangerfield wants to trust his side.

When its all said and done, Dangerfield just isnt a leader nor is he a big game player. Big game players dont request to hide in the forward line
 

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Far too good. That 22 point margin in the 2nd had me thinking about last years Prelim. Dusty is on another planet and Richmond also on another Galaxy. The first 3 quarters were terrific then Richmond just went bang like we did in the last qtr of the 2011 Granny.


Brilliant team and we've been witnessing greatness since 2017. Deserved winners.
 
RichLeMonde said:
Stupid as it sounds, I think I have not quite rated him highly enough until tonight lol. His stats don't tell the full story - it's the moments that he seizes that dfine him (he's the player most like Hird in that respect). But fu** me the stats tell a story as well! 6 goals against Brisbane last year in a knock out final. 4 tonight when Geelong only kicked 7 or 8, including the one before half time that kept us in the match. Every coach in the league would know that if you stop Dusty you're a fair chance of stopping Richmond, and none of them can.
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Re our little chat about Dangerfield ... part of why suffered in comparison was just how good Martin was. All that talk comparing Buddy to Carey is rubbish IMO. Franklin isn't in the same league.

But Dusty is. Last night was the first time I saw someone who reminded me of Duck.

In the '90s we had this feeling when Carey played that whatever we were up against we could rely on him to drag us out of the s**t. It's hard to explain but there was a level of confidence that whatever happened we could cope with it. Dustin Martin is the only player I've seen with that same quality, especially in Grand Finals.

He could well be the best player ever by the time he finishes his career.
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
Something that really stood out to me was what Chris Scott said post game re: Dangerfield

Scott said Dangerfield came off half way through the third quarter. Scott asked Dangerfield if he should go in the midfield and Dangerfield said no, he wants to stay up forward

Firstly, why is the coach asking where a player wants to play? I dont care if its Dangerfield or not, you tell him where to play. You are the coach you dong. To me it sounded like Scott wanted him to play in the midfield but was too scared of hurting his feelings, so had to ask for permission first like a school girl asking her high school crush to the dance. It was very very weak

Secondly, why is Dangerfield not wanting to go into the midfield? You just spend a entire half of a quarter nowhere near the ball. 99% of players would be saying "I need to get near the ball" in his spot so why not him? The excuse given was that he wanted to put trust in the midfield group to turn it around but reality is the midfield group wants your help, not your trust. Richmond won the game by throwing extra numbers into the midfield and running over the top of them. It was clear as day that Geelongs midfield was running out of legs. Dangerfield should have put his legs in there and not his mythical trust.

People want to say "this game proves the difference between Martin and Dangerfield". I tend to disagree. The difference has always been there and this is why. Martin wants the contest, Dangerfield doesnt. Martin wants to do it all, Dangerfiels doesnt. Martin wants to lift his side, Dangerfield wants to trust his side.

When its all said and done, Dangerfield just isnt a leader nor is he a big game player. Big game players dont request to hide in the forward line
Click to expand...
Modern way of coaching, take in all the information and make a call based on it. Dangerfield would have a good idea of where he feels he can be most valuable. This time it probably goes down as the wrong decision but the decision making process would achieve the right call often.

Since everyone compares Dangerfield and Martin, Hardwick rarely controls where Martin plays. When he was swung forward before half time in the 17 GF - that was Martin’s call on his own. Hardwick didn’t put him there.
 
juss said:
I feel for Ablett who's all time career will be lost a bit tonight, and I feel for Vlastuin who deserved to play and celebrate a game (was just unlucky though, no genuine malice from Danger).

Still amazed at how much the game turned after half time. The Cats for 10 quarters of Collingwood, Brisbane and this first half played some of the best finals footy, but it just broke down at the crucial half of the season.
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It didn’t just break down, the tigers broke it down like we have to the best teams over the last 4 years. Was a carbon copy of last year’s prelim, our system just beats Geelong into submission like it does most teams.
 
harrythetiger said:
Modern way of coaching, take in all the information and make a call based on it. Dangerfield would have a good idea of where he feels he can be most valuable. This time it probably goes down as the wrong decision but the decision making process would achieve the right call often.

Since everyone compares Dangerfield and Martin, Hardwick rarely controls where Martin plays. When he was swung forward before half time in the 17 GF - that was Martin’s call on his own. Hardwick didn’t put him there.
Click to expand...

True enough but the coach eventually has the ability to override the player when he is in the wrong. Hardwick rarely controls Martin because he is making the right decision and feels so. Scott here thinks Dangerfield is making the wrong decision and instead of pulling rank, he concedes.

Its weak coaching

Im also 100% sure that 100 times out of 100, Martin throws himself into the midfield 5 minutes into 3rd qtr if Geelong had that run on Richmond were having
 
PieLebo87 said:
Might be a three peat but Considering the other two Grand Finals this has to be the best premiership the Tiger faithful have witnessed. It was actually a contest, so they would’ve savoured it’s more. Won’t sink in until the morning.
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The elation of 2017 eclipses this but the challenge laid before them in the sections qtr with which they had to come back and win last night sets this Premiership apart. This one proves the Hardwick Tigers are immense and worthy of being considered in the conversation of the games all time great sides.
 
ToreadorMarch said:
Yeah, you think it was mental, couldn’t adjust to the tweaks the Tiges made or physically just ran out of steam? I’m interested. Just seemed to have no legs in second half at all but were everywhere in first half
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I wonder if they thought the job was done. The Hawkins goal was telling. It was story book stuff. Ablett gives the deft handball to Selwood who spots up Tomahwak on the easy lead. Three of the biggest Cats involved in that sequence and it was all so easy. After that Balta goes into the ruck late in the second and does really well and the Cats just seemed to drop their intensity. The Tigers win the clearances after not going forward nearly all qtr and lock the game in the fwd half. Richmond got on top from that moment on till the final siren.

Geelong looked like they thought the game was over and that they'd broken the Tigers.
 
Lol @ people going off at Ash Barty presenting the cup. She's the best in a game that is popular worldwide, presenting the cup to a team in a sport that is popular in half of Australia. They should feel privileged.
 
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