AFL Grand Final AFL 2021 GRAND FINAL - Demons v Dogs Sat September 25th 7:15pm EST / 5:15pm WST (Optus) Congratulations Demons! 🍾🏆 Match Highlights in OP

Who will win and by how much?

  • Demons by a goal or less

    Votes: 16 4.4%
  • Dogs by a goal or less

    Votes: 16 4.4%
  • Demons by 7 - 20

    Votes: 132 36.4%
  • Dogs by 7 - 20

    Votes: 108 29.8%
  • Demons by a lot

    Votes: 50 13.8%
  • Dogs by a lot

    Votes: 33 9.1%
  • Draw

    Votes: 9 2.5%

  • Total voters
    363
  • Poll closed .

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H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
AFL Club
Hawthorn
There’s no killer instinct.
That’s what I said to my brother at the end of the game. I know it’s kind of lame, but one team has the eye of the tiger and the other didn’t (Bont aside).
 

H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I think it’s more of a balance thing in the midfield.

Macrae, Liberatore and Bontempelli look either slow, or maybe not slow once they are running but lack explosive pace off the mark. They need a little time and space to be effective.

I think they are also attack first players who back themselves to win the ball, and can get exposed the other way.

When Melbourne had Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca all trying to be the hero in the midfield it didn’t work.

Once Viney accepted he is a limited player and stuck to what he’s good at, Oliver added using his foot speed and became damaging by foot too, Petracca got his fitness up, and Beayshaw moved out to the unglamorous wing, the balance changed.

A combination of expanding repertoire for Oliver and Petracca, contracting for Viney, and getting organised to exploit strengths made a huge difference.

What are the differences the Dogs’ players can make to how they play, and who plays where?

Should they better utilise their midfield depth by playing some of their stars in less glamorous positions where their stats will suffer, but it will make the team better?
If you can bare it watch the second half of the third quarter onwards. Bont was tackling and doing everything he could whilst his team mates in the midfield just evacuated the hotness of the contest. I couldn’t believe it. It wasn’t structural. It was two guys in Petracca and Oliver saying I want this premiership and Bont trying to stop them whilst his teammates looked on saying, ‘too hard’ or something. I’m most stunned by Libba.
 

markm106

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 29, 2006
10,128
9,598
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Yeah the ruck situation is an interesting one. English they need to make a call on. Is he a ruck or if he a forward/ruck. Probably can’t go Martin again unless he plays for absolute minimum wage.
 

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H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
AFL Club
Hawthorn
The belting Melbourne got from the Eagles in the 2018 preliminary was a blessing in disguise.

It brutally exposed that team’s deficiencies and was the first catalyst for the change that led to this premiership.

If Melbourne had a brave loss of 23 after some junk time goals they may have just cruised on hoping natural development would do the trick.

Instead they went after May and now the backline is almost entirely different.

Out Frost, O. McDonald, Lewis and Jetta.

In May, Petty (Tomlinson), Rivers and Bowey. Lever was injured in 2018.

Only Hibberd and Salem survived, and they can both be damaging by foot.

The injury hit 2019 clarified some other deficiencies, like the over reliance on clearances.

Maybe the Bulldogs will look back on this as a blessing too.
Great post.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
11,884
15,282
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
That’s what I said to my brother at the end of the game. I know it’s kind of lame, but one team has the eye of the tiger and the other didn’t (Bont aside).

When Naughton flies for the footy, he doesn’t look or care who’s in the way. He just goes. Tim braces for impact first and then jumps.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
11,884
15,282
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Best post of the thread. Respect to you mate as you must be hurting but I rated your midfield so highly and when the war started I couldn’t believe what I saw. Bont was heroic but he was outnumbered 4-1, whilst Libba, McCrae etc just completely folded. I’m not trying to be kicking a losing team, I’m literally blown away by how they all went hiding when it got hot. I’m stunned and would trade one or two on principle. It was bad.

Not once did we try and change the centre bounce structure when getting beaten. Was arrogant I felt, I feel we just assumed we’d win it back. Local footy mids would have set up better.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
11,884
15,282
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
I think it’s more of a balance thing in the midfield.

Macrae, Liberatore and Bontempelli look either slow, or maybe not slow once they are running but lack explosive pace off the mark. They need a little time and space to be effective.

I think they are also attack first players who back themselves to win the ball, and can get exposed the other way.

When Melbourne had Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw and Petracca all trying to be the hero in the midfield it didn’t work.

Once Viney accepted he is a limited player and stuck to what he’s good at, Oliver added using his foot speed and became damaging by foot too, Petracca got his fitness up, and Beayshaw moved out to the unglamorous wing, the balance changed.

A combination of expanding repertoire for Oliver and Petracca, contracting for Viney, and getting organised to exploit strengths made a huge difference.

What are the differences the Dogs’ players can make to how they play, and who plays where?

Should they better utilise their midfield depth by playing some of their stars in less glamorous positions where their stats will suffer, but it will make the team better?

Libba is a goal kicker. I’d like to see him play more fwd minutes. Bont maybe some more deep forward minutes too. Let Bailey smith, Treloar and dunks take more centre bounce work. Macrae such a gun too but just can’t play forward sadly.
 

H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
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Hawthorn
Not once did we try and change the centre bounce structure when getting beaten. Was arrogant I felt, I feel we just assumed we’d win it back. Local footy mids would have set up better.
I know but you’ve had all year probably the best or second best midfield. When Petracca went to Bont in the centre square at the start of the third quarter it wasn’t about tagging or set plays. He seemed to say, ‘let’s see who wants it more’. Oliver and him just went insane and Bont did too, but the rest of your guys didn’t fight. I’ll shut up about it as I remember 2012 and don’t mean to make it worse but it was hard to watch Bont fighting so hard and have no mates. Treloar included for all those raving about his first half.
 

adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
11,884
15,282
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Western Bulldogs
I know but you’ve had all year probably the best or second best midfield. When Petracca went to Bont in the centre square at the start of the third quarter it wasn’t about tagging or set plays. He seemed to say, ‘let’s see who wants it more’. Oliver and him just went insane and Bont did too, but the rest of your guys didn’t fight. I’ll shut up about it as I remember 2012 and don’t mean to make it worse but it was hard to watch Bont fighting so hard and have no mates. Treloar included for all those raving about his first half.

Doesn’t bother me mate, it’s a good topic and I’m fine having good match dissection conversations. I appreciate a non troll! It’s the posters who want to troll and prod that I am trying to stay clear of. Libba and Macrae just didn’t fight in the last 10 mins of that third quarter. It should have been all defence mode. Do not leave their hip goal side until we’ve won it back.
 

H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Doesn’t bother me mate, it’s a good topic and I’m fine having good match dissection conversations. I appreciate a non troll! It’s the posters who want to troll and prod that I am trying to stay clear of. Libba and Macrae just didn’t fight in the last 10 mins of that third quarter. It should have been all defence mode. Do not leave their hip goal side until we’ve won it back.
You’re the kind of poster that makes me come back to Bigfooty at times after ten plus years. I’m the same mate I love dissecting games and just being real. I liken the folding of your mids to leaving a soldier wounded or outnumbered in battle … it’s sanctimonious I suppose but I just couldn’t believe it. Lost a ton of respect for a few of them. It wasn’t fatigue or and off day, it was being exposed for having elite consistency but no capacity to go into beast mode. Love Bont so much. He is my favourite player ever just about even though Petracca showed that he’s possibly better. Don’t know if that makes sense but Bont is a hero regardless
 

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adogsfan5

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 12, 2020
11,884
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Western Bulldogs
Gold - Dees singing ‘free from desire’ after the granny. Bulldogs got ahead of themselves.

I think they are too classy of a playing group to be taking the piss out of another team, let alone the runners up. No way Max Gawn lets that occur on camera. They also sang sweet Caroline and Gimme Gimme Gimme.
 

mattwa

Club Legend
Jun 10, 2007
2,067
3,735
wa
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Really don't think we are too far off it. Clearly were in the top 2 teams all year and got towelled up by 3 centre clearances in that 3 goal burst then it was just a massive gut punch. Teams get runs on in grandies and granted Melbourne's was exceptional you'd be lying after bonts 3rd to put us 19 up you thought the game was nearly done if we kicked another 1 or 2
 

10571z

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 23, 2006
13,541
14,396
Christmas Hills
AFL Club
Collingwood
Really don't think we are too far off it. Clearly were in the top 2 teams all year and got towelled up by 3 centre clearances in that 3 goal burst then it was just a massive gut punch. Teams get runs on in grandies and granted Melbourne's was exceptional you'd be lying after bonts 3rd to put us 19 up you thought the game was nearly done if we kicked another 1 or 2
Course you aren’t far off it. 50 seconds left in the third you were 1 goal down. If you held that margin instead of 3 goals it could be a different story.
 

mattwa

Club Legend
Jun 10, 2007
2,067
3,735
wa
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Course you aren’t far off it. 50 seconds left in the third you were 1 goal down. If you held that margin instead of 3 goals it could be a different story.
Yep. Will always be a bit of what if. Few mental lapses and melb walk into 3/4 time up and about and we walk in deflated. It is what it is now and we will be better for the experience
 

H2F

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 14, 2006
23,954
17,425
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I didn’t realise until I watched the replay how poor defensively Bontempelli is.

Also, is Dunkley the most handsome man playing the game?
He tackled harder than any other Dog, especially in the third and last quarters when it became a war. Couldn’t be more wrong.
 

markm106

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 29, 2006
10,128
9,598
Melbourne
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Melbourne
3 goals in a minute to put the game away will go down in grand final folklore. We can talk about centre bounce setups etc but no one was stopping that rampaging Melbourne midfield in that minute. It was meant to be. Petracca just stood up when he needed to. I just knew he wouldn’t retire without a flag. Same goes for Oliver and Viney.
 

DrPowellPepper

All Australian
Jul 9, 2017
636
593
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Melbourne
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Tottenham Spurs
As a freo fan enjoying watching Ed Langdon flop so hard after talking so much trash about freo, Perth, Ross lyon the last 3 weeks...... Absolute shocking performance today

Needed to come back to this one … not sure why Freo supporters been so down on this bloke all year.
One of the most improved in the comp played the role of a winger to absolute perfection all season long.