Autopsy AFL 2021 Round 13 - North v Giants Sun June 13th 3:20pm EST (Blundstone)

Who will win and by how much?

  • North by a goal or less

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Giants by a goal or less

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • North by 7 - 20

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Giants by 7 - 20

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • North by a lot

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Giants by a lot

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Draw

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

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ExYarraValley

Team Captain
Apr 27, 2021
451
352
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Well, Cunners is a freak footballer (would be Hawthorn’s best by a country mile) so of course he’s always in our bests. But go get your calculator out and come back to me with how old you reckon Zurhaar (BOG for us), Simpkin and Thomas are. Goldy hasn’t been in our top handful (not his fault he was up against a spud in Mumford and taught him a lesson today) and Tarrant hasn’t even played this year. But go on, you Rhodes Scholar, show us your maths skills.
All three so important.
 

sherb

Hall of Famer
Sep 28, 2003
31,353
31,885
Western Sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Swans
I agree, people don't go to local games. Nor even VFL matches it seems. The 'fans' don't exactly pack out Norths games either. The difference is one is spoon fed AFL money & lives on other clubs fans paying at the gate.

Its no ones fault, just an historic fact that Melbourne clubs come in all sizes. The little clubs live out of the big clubs pockets. & AFL welfare.

Who knows what the AFL will do. I would say we'd be better off than some clubs currently flying interstate for money.
That's the thing, isn't it?

Any comp below AFL level these days, sadly, only attracts niche level support.
 

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Tas

Premium Platinum
Dec 23, 2002
56,319
44,739
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
If that's the case, then at least try to understand the basics of the argument.

A good start for you would be the fact that people are largely disinterested in watching clubs they don't support.

Especially clubs like yours that, as you admit, are only tarting themselves for money by playing in Tassie.
Maybe you should educate yourself first before calling out others?

We didn't tart ourselves, Richmond organised the Hobart deal with Tasmanian government, Cricket Tasmania and AFL Tasmania but the AFL rejected it because Richmond were already selling games up North and the AFL said you couldn't sell games to two different markets. The AFL proposed to the parties if they could convince us to replace Richmond then they would agree to the deal to schedule some games there (we weren't selling any games at the time). They offered us a lot of money, on the back that it was commercially viable and generated money for the State, they got an independent consultancy firm to do that, they said yes and they ran the numbers again after the first two years and it was more lucrative to the state than they had conservatively estimated.

So it was a commercial deal that benefitted all the parties. That is great, but we have stated clearly on a number of times since JB left that we have no desire to move there, our members wouldn't allow it even if the board was in favour of it, but we were happy to do as much as we could do to make it a success for both Tasmania and us, but it was painfully obvious that the attendances were heavily reliant on people flying/sailing into Tasmania.

Our deal wasn't like the Hawthorn deal, we weren't getting a ton of money from the state government, we were getting a fair bit of funding by TT Line, which is semi-government, but again, that was based off commercial estimations of it being good for the carrier and the state. Unlike the Hawthorn deal, we share the revenue with AFL Tasmania and Cricket Tasmania, so it was a lot more than than Tasmania paying us for games, the arrangement saw a significant redevelopment of Blundstone (Federal government wouldn't do it without AFL games there and Hawks refused to play any games in Hobart) and it saw much needed revenue head towards the other two Tasmanian organisations.

Most of our games in Tasmania have been a pretty good standard, despite the conditions sometimes being challenging. We have very rarely played poorly there.

I don't care if people hate my club, if you want to see football to succeed in your state, you support the games. If every game in Tasmania was a sellout and there were queues going back a mile, you wouldn't need try hards in the media trying to guilt the AFL into giving you a team, the people out there would have done the selling for you. If you hate North but want footy there then don't wear North colours, wear your now defunct TFL team colours. Do something other than complaining on forums.

It is the same advice I gave to North supporter who were whining about threatening to pull their membership because they are unhappy about losing some reserved seating. The club entertained this option because not enough supporters put bums on seats. If you aren't happy with the status quo, doing nothing is always worse than being proactive about something.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
18,092
12,505
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
Maybe you should educate yourself first before calling out others?

We didn't tart ourselves, Richmond organised the Hobart deal with Tasmanian government, Cricket Tasmania and AFL Tasmania but the AFL rejected it because Richmond were already selling games up North and the AFL said you couldn't sell games to two different markets. The AFL proposed to the parties if they could convince us to replace Richmond then they would agree to the deal to schedule some games there (we weren't selling any games at the time). They offered us a lot of money, on the back that it was commercially viable and generated money for the State, they got an independent consultancy firm to do that, they said yes and they ran the numbers again after the first two years and it was more lucrative to the state than they had conservatively estimated.

So it was a commercial deal that benefitted all the parties. That is great, but we have stated clearly on a number of times since JB left that we have no desire to move there, our members wouldn't allow it even if the board was in favour of it, but we were happy to do as much as we could do to make it a success for both Tasmania and us, but it was painfully obvious that the attendances were heavily reliant on people flying/sailing into Tasmania.

Our deal wasn't like the Hawthorn deal, we weren't getting a ton of money from the state government, we were getting a fair bit of funding by TT Line, which is semi-government, but again, that was based off commercial estimations of it being good for the carrier and the state. Unlike the Hawthorn deal, we share the re revenue with AFL Tasmania and Cricket Tasmania, so it was a lot more than than Tasmania paying us for games, the arrangement saw a significant redevelopment of Blundstone (Federal government wouldn't do it without AFL games there and Hawks refused to play any games in Hobart) and it saw much needed revenue head towards the other two Tasmanian organisations.

Most of our games in Tasmania have been a pretty good standard, despite the conditions sometimes being challenging. We have very rarely played poorly there.

I don't care if people hate my club, if you want to football to succeed in your state, you support the games. If every game in Tasmania was a sellout and there were queues going back a mile, you wouldn't need try hards in the media trying to guilt the AFL into giving you a team, the people out there would have done the selling for you. If you hate North by want footy there then don't wear North colours, wear your now defunct TFL team colours. Do something other than complaining on forums.

It is the same advice I gave to North supporter who were whining about threatening to pull their membership because they are unhappy about losing some reserved seating. The club entertained this option because not enough supporters put bums on seats. If you aren't happy with the status quo, doing nothing is always worse than being proactive about something.
Mate we've copped years of the 'support the game & you'll get your own club' BS. Its just a con job that's run its race.

People are sick of it. Which ever way it goes with getting a club, its still bye bye North.
 

B4Bear

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 6, 2011
6,955
13,619
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Mate we've copped years of the 'support the game & you'll get your own club' BS. Its just a con job that's run its race.

People are sick of it. Which ever way it goes with getting a club, its still bye bye North.
North will be around long after you have shuffled off this mortal coil.

The third oldest sporting club in the country is not going into the night because of a second rate organisation like the AFL.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
18,092
12,505
Hobart
AFL Club
Collingwood
North will be around long after you have shuffled off this mortal coil.

The third oldest sporting club in the country is not going into the night because of a second rate organisation like the AFL.
Its bye bye from Tassie.

Other than that I CGARA what North do, or where they do it. Good luck to them.
 

Outtatym

Senior List
Jun 29, 2020
166
248
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Mate we've copped years of the 'support the game & you'll get your own club' BS. Its just a con job that's run its race.

People are sick of it. Which ever way it goes with getting a club, its still bye bye North.
Enjoy waiting for the BBL season to watch any live sport in person
 

sherb

Hall of Famer
Sep 28, 2003
31,353
31,885
Western Sydney
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Swans
Maybe you should educate yourself first before calling out others?

We didn't tart ourselves, Richmond organised the Hobart deal with Tasmanian government, Cricket Tasmania and AFL Tasmania but the AFL rejected it because Richmond were already selling games up North and the AFL said you couldn't sell games to two different markets. The AFL proposed to the parties if they could convince us to replace Richmond then they would agree to the deal to schedule some games there (we weren't selling any games at the time). They offered us a lot of money, on the back that it was commercially viable and generated money for the State, they got an independent consultancy firm to do that, they said yes and they ran the numbers again after the first two years and it was more lucrative to the state than they had conservatively estimated.

So it was a commercial deal that benefitted all the parties. That is great, but we have stated clearly on a number of times since JB left that we have no desire to move there, our members wouldn't allow it even if the board was in favour of it, but we were happy to do as much as we could do to make it a success for both Tasmania and us, but it was painfully obvious that the attendances were heavily reliant on people flying/sailing into Tasmania.

Our deal wasn't like the Hawthorn deal, we weren't getting a ton of money from the state government, we were getting a fair bit of funding by TT Line, which is semi-government, but again, that was based off commercial estimations of it being good for the carrier and the state. Unlike the Hawthorn deal, we share the re revenue with AFL Tasmania and Cricket Tasmania, so it was a lot more than than Tasmania paying us for games, the arrangement saw a significant redevelopment of Blundstone (Federal government wouldn't do it without AFL games there and Hawks refused to play any games in Hobart) and it saw much needed revenue head towards the other two Tasmanian organisations.

Most of our games in Tasmania have been a pretty good standard, despite the conditions sometimes being challenging. We have very rarely played poorly there.

I don't care if people hate my club, if you want to football to succeed in your state, you support the games. If every game in Tasmania was a sellout and there were queues going back a mile, you wouldn't need try hards in the media trying to guilt the AFL into giving you a team, the people out there would have done the selling for you. If you hate North by want footy there then don't wear North colours, wear your now defunct TFL team colours. Do something other than complaining on forums.

It is the same advice I gave to North supporter who were whining about threatening to pull their membership because they are unhappy about losing some reserved seating. The club entertained this option because not enough supporters put bums on seats. If you aren't happy with the status quo, doing nothing is always worse than being proactive about something.
I don't hate North Melbourne, I wear it as a badge of honour that I was at the G for the 75 Grand Final to see their first ever flag.

If you want football to succeed in Tassie, you give Tassie something worth supporting. You know, like their own side. Something they can embrace.

All that's happening is that the Tasmanian people are voting with their feet. I mean, who would want to go and watch two sides outside the 8, one on the bottom, each with minimal local support?

They are clearly sick of the king (the AFL) feeding them (the peasants) crumbs and expecting them to be grateful for it.

As a Carlton supporter, if I was still living in Tassie the last thing I would want to do would be to go along to watch North and Hawthorn playing there for money. I might do it once in a blue moon to get on the piss, but that's about it.

You can moralize all you like, but I have no doubt you wouldn't exactly race along to watch Carlton playing for money at Bellerive if you were a local.

As for the tarting comment, I just went by this statement of yours:
"it is just low effort easy money for the club"

Anyway, you are taking this as some sort of slight on your club. It's not. It's the product that is the problem and the circumstances in which it is being served up.
 

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Tas

Premium Platinum
Dec 23, 2002
56,319
44,739
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
Mate we've copped years of the 'support the game & you'll get your own club' BS. Its just a con job that's run its race.

People are sick of it. Which ever way it goes with getting a club, its still bye bye North.
And how many games did you sell out in those years? Zero? It is not like you have an MCG sized stadium to fill.

it is going to be bye bye North. it is going to also be bye bye Hawthorn and bye bye AFL.

You guys are going to piss your only real shot at getting a team because you can't be bothered. It is as much of a fight you had saving your TFL and it is as much fight as you would supporting a Tasmanian AFL side.

Nobody should expect anything more.
 

Liam Boy

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 12, 2008
5,166
7,323
Melbourne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
And how many games did you sell out in those years? Zero? It is not like you have an MCG sized stadium to fill.

it is going to be bye bye North. it is going to also be bye bye Hawthorn and bye bye AFL.

You guys are going to piss your only real shot at getting a team because you can't be bothered. It is as much of a fight you had saving your TFL and it is as much fight as you would supporting a Tasmanian AFL side.

Nobody should expect anything more.
I don't know if I can agree with this, expecting them to start turning up like they've already got their own team to be invested in is putting the cart before the horse. If the Gold Coast and GWS are accepted as loss leaders bleeding money for potentially decades, there's at least a strong argument to make that same investment in Tasmania long-term, since there's a lot of football people there who would embrace a new team. To me it seems more sensible than chasing a state full of rugby league fans and a city that every other code has died in.
 

Tas

Premium Platinum
Dec 23, 2002
56,319
44,739
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
There can be only one...
I don't hate North Melbourne, I wear it as a badge of honour that I was at the G for the 75 Grand Final to see their first ever flag.
I was too young for that one. I wasn't really referring to you, was just saying even if Tasmanians in general do not like our club, or Hawthorn, they should consider how best to use the current opportunity to get what they want, ie their own team.

If you want football to succeed in Tassie, you give Tassie something worth supporting. You know, like their own side. Something they can embrace.
That is wishful thinking. Do you think Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon, etc are going to agree to divide the revenue base by another share and lose some more access to guaranteed FTA time for a club that may eventually be a significant financial drain like GC and GWS are at present?

The clubs (those that own a license) have the final say. AFL for the SANFL and WAFL is a revenue generator so it will likely be a purely economical for them. GWS and GC was sold as an investment into the future, the AFL said they would be self-sufficient by 10 years. They are a long way off the mark on those numbers so clubs will likely be sceptical about anything other than conservative estimations or long-term financial support commitments.

I may be wrong but I think they need 3/4 votes to expand, the AFL did the dirty on the Lions and the Swans last time, both wanted to block expansion of GC/GWS but since the AFL owns their license, they vetoed their clubs to vote for expansion. The presidents this year have already indicated they will not support a Tasmanian team until after they have recovered from the covid effects, at a minimum.

All that's happening is that the Tasmanian people are voting with their feet. I mean, who would want to go and watch two sides outside the 8, one on the bottom, each with minimal local support?

They are clearly sick of the king (the AFL) feeding them (the peasants) crumbs and expecting them to be grateful for it.
I think you are underestimating how much these games in Tasmania are reliant on supporters from the mainland travelling to see the games, this is why the Hobart games are so profitable for the government.

The crowd was particularly dead today because people from Melbourne couldn't travel to the Tasmanian game. What did they get... 3,462 people from Tasmania alone. That is not going to help Tasmania get their own side. They would be better off not having any games there than to have poorly supported games.

I think in part it is due to the negative campaign the government has done in particular to try and pressure the AFL to give them their own side. It has turned it into a more confrontational relationship, it will end up hurting Tasmania on the bottom line. I do not think North or Hawthorn should continue to play games in Tasmania after this year, regardless what the government says after the inevitable rejection. They have turned it into a toxic relationship when they initially asked us to come so they could get the Blundstone redeveloped.

As a Carlton supporter, if I was still living in Tassie the last thing I would want to do would be to go along to watch North and Hawthorn playing there for money. I might do it once in a blue moon to get on the piss, but that's about it.
I dunno, i used to go pay to watch the circus when it came into town and I was not really a fan of the circus. I think if you do not have community events or a strong community it is better to get whatever you can and then you can be more picky when you have a lot to choose from. I go watch the suburban league when I can, there is an oval not too far from me, I watch the 3rd division play, the juniors. Footy is footy and live footy is so much better than footy on the box. Doesn't matter if you follow the sides or not.

I get a sense of entitlement from Tasmanians that you have some right to AFL games. You do not.

If you love footy, support the game at every level. If you want strong community footy, support that. If you want a good state league support that. If you want to get into the national competition, show there is enough support for it. You don't have to, but don't be surprised if nobody lays down the red carpet for you.

You can moralize all you like, but I have no doubt you wouldn't exactly race along to watch Carlton playing for money at Bellerive if you were a local.
I watch GC vs GWS games, there are two clubs I care less about than I would a Tasmanian team. When I was younger i was in the St Johns Ambulance Brigade and I did more than 10,000 hours of community work and that included going to a lot of footy games I had no interest in the teams involved. But, it was a great experience, got to meet ripping guys like Hafey, Sheedy, etc who took time out even during finals to have a chat with snotty nosed kids. Good times.

Sometimes you have to do things for the greater good.

As for the tarting comment, I just went by this statement of yours:
"it is just low effort easy money for the club"

Anyway, you are taking this as some sort of slight on your club. It's not. It's the product that is the problem and the circumstances in which it is being served up.
Yeah, it is low effort on behalf of our club, we weren't the club who had come up with the idea. We still do all the community work and camps there, we have the NGA and part of our AFLW team is based there in Tasmania. We also include Tasmanians in our pathway for the VFL team and none of these things are anything we are contractually required of us, we have done things in the spirit of desiring to have a good relationship but the hostility of the government there at present I think is making it untenable regardless of the outcome with the AFL. They have poisoned the well to a certain degree and demanded a new well, but if you don't get the new well what are you going to do next?

Expanding the supporter base in Melbourne is much harder work with slower short-term gains, it is a harder slog but we are well situated with Wyndham, we just need to expand that hard work over a much larger area. It is harder to do when you are focused on another markets, our progress has slowed down since our involvement with Tasmania. I am not blaming Tasmania for it, just saying what we need as a club for the next 10, 20, 50, 100, etc years needs the hard work to be done now because the selling games in Canberra, Sydney, Gold Coast and Hobart has damaged the football attending culture and there is no way we can begin to repair that damage until we return here and never again sell games again.
 

Engimal v3

Oppa gangnam style
Sep 21, 2017
6,804
13,139
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Tasmania
Maybe you should educate yourself first before calling out others?

We didn't tart ourselves, Richmond organised the Hobart deal with Tasmanian government, Cricket Tasmania and AFL Tasmania but the AFL rejected it because Richmond were already selling games up North and the AFL said you couldn't sell games to two different markets. The AFL proposed to the parties if they could convince us to replace Richmond then they would agree to the deal to schedule some games there (we weren't selling any games at the time). They offered us a lot of money, on the back that it was commercially viable and generated money for the State, they got an independent consultancy firm to do that, they said yes and they ran the numbers again after the first two years and it was more lucrative to the state than they had conservatively estimated.

So it was a commercial deal that benefitted all the parties. That is great, but we have stated clearly on a number of times since JB left that we have no desire to move there, our members wouldn't allow it even if the board was in favour of it, but we were happy to do as much as we could do to make it a success for both Tasmania and us, but it was painfully obvious that the attendances were heavily reliant on people flying/sailing into Tasmania.

Our deal wasn't like the Hawthorn deal, we weren't getting a ton of money from the state government, we were getting a fair bit of funding by TT Line, which is semi-government, but again, that was based off commercial estimations of it being good for the carrier and the state. Unlike the Hawthorn deal, we share the revenue with AFL Tasmania and Cricket Tasmania, so it was a lot more than than Tasmania paying us for games, the arrangement saw a significant redevelopment of Blundstone (Federal government wouldn't do it without AFL games there and Hawks refused to play any games in Hobart) and it saw much needed revenue head towards the other two Tasmanian organisations.

Most of our games in Tasmania have been a pretty good standard, despite the conditions sometimes being challenging. We have very rarely played poorly there.

I don't care if people hate my club, if you want to see football to succeed in your state, you support the games. If every game in Tasmania was a sellout and there were queues going back a mile, you wouldn't need try hards in the media trying to guilt the AFL into giving you a team, the people out there would have done the selling for you. If you hate North but want footy there then don't wear North colours, wear your now defunct TFL team colours. Do something other than complaining on forums.

It is the same advice I gave to North supporter who were whining about threatening to pull their membership because they are unhappy about losing some reserved seating. The club entertained this option because not enough supporters put bums on seats. If you aren't happy with the status quo, doing nothing is always worse than being proactive about something.

"If you really love football and want your team, go and support the games already in Tasmania to convince the AFL!"
"See, Tasmanians don't need a team. They're already supporting the mainland teams!"
 

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