AFL 2025 - 20 Teams

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McCrann

Premiership Player
Nov 1, 2007
3,767
740
Australia
AFL Club
St Kilda
The AFL should be looking to expand over the next Dozen years by inviting 2 new teams to join the competition by 2025.

In the interests of getting the ball rolling, and creating media buzz, I believe it would be a great idea for the AFL to make a statement about this and invite expressions of interest from various regions by listing the areas it is looking at for these new teams.

The most likely places for a new team would be the following.

Perth
Tasmania
ACT/Canberra/Riverina
Newcastle/ Central Coast
New Zealand (Wellington?)
North Queensland (Cairns?)

Can anyone nominate anywhere else that should be considered?

Darwin - a little too small methinks! At least at the moment.
 

blaze036

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 27, 2011
19,477
13,368
Melbourne
AFL Club
Collingwood
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It is too soon for a NZ team, and the AFL want the ACT to support GWS not split the support.

Newcastle and north queensland would be too small so i would think a 3rd perth team and a tasmanian team are the best choices by far. Hopefully whenever the next 2 teams come in Tasmania's population and economy has improved to better support a team.
 

Phantom21

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Feb 7, 2013
245
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Adelaide
I think a team from NT and Tassie should happen sooner rather than later.

Teams like the Bullies need to either die or relocate.
 

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Recreations Sake

Premiership Player
Jul 10, 2008
3,784
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North Melbourne
Teams like the Bullies need to either die or relocate.
Why? Do half full stadiums bother you more than taking a football team away from loyal, lifelong football supporters?

This argument is so moronic and tired, the AFL made a billion dollars just from TV rights and has more than enough cash to support less popular teams.
 

Phantom21

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Feb 7, 2013
245
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Why? Do half full stadiums bother you more than taking a football team away from loyal, lifelong football supporters?

This argument is so moronic and tired, the AFL made a billion dollars just from TV rights and has more than enough cash to support less popular teams.
It figures your a North Supporter.

My aim was strictly at the Bulldogs. I feel for NT and Tassie that want to be a part of the AFL and would have the entire backing of their govt to be a part of that, thats why. North struggle to have 30k supporters if that!
 

Recreations Sake

Premiership Player
Jul 10, 2008
3,784
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It figures your a North Supporter.

My aim was strictly at the Bulldogs. I feel for NT and Tassie that want to be a part of the AFL and would have the entire backing of their govt to be a part of that, thats why. North struggle to have 30k supporters if that!
I don't care what your aim was at, I'm sick of idiots attempting to make this argument on BF. Western Bulldogs fans don't want to be part of the AFL? Why do you care so much about how many fans football teams have? The Western Bulldogs have nearly 100 years of history and you think they shouldn't exist anymore because your team has more fans?

Oooooh the Northern Territory government!! Check some facts mate, nobody lives in Darwin and the NT government doesn't have the money to support an AFL team. But I'm guessing your line of thought was along the lines of looking at a map, figuring out that there's a big patch of land called the Northern Territory and deciding that it therefore should have a football team.
 

shaqsuns

Club Legend
Jun 13, 2011
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Gold Coast
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I don't care what your aim was at, I'm sick of idiots attempting to make this argument on BF. Western Bulldogs fans don't want to be part of the AFL? Why do you care so much about how many fans football teams have? The Western Bulldogs have nearly 100 years of history and you think they shouldn't exist anymore because your team has more fans?

I agree witto h your point no team in melborne should be forced to close their doors just cause they can only get 30,000 members. Just think here on the coast we havnt got to 10 000 yet :S

although I would like to see a whole state get behind the nt thunder and push them play in the AFL
 

Howard Littlejohn

Brownlow Medallist
May 30, 2006
15,558
8,647
Canberra
AFL Club
North Melbourne
2025 is too early for the next round of expansion for mine.
I also don't see a viable home for a 20th team, unless there are to be 4 teams in Perth.

Darwin and surrounds will still be too small by then, and my home state of Tas is probably a "never" proposition. If Darwin's rapid growth continues, it may be worth looking at eventually but that would be much later than 2025.

North Queensland also is problematic, treating it as one market when the distance from Townsville to Cairns is so large is fraught with danger. Also, regional network viewers are simply not worth the same amount to advertisers or content providers as major metro viewers. (That part also works against Tas, NT and ACT which all get regional networks and not the majors.)

New Zealand I don't see as a "must have" like GWS is. The existing media deals already include Sydney, GWS is about adding value to those deals. NZ is different, in that it is outside the big money deals and any team there won't add value to those rights for many decades (if ever). I'd rather see money diverted to the grass roots of NZ and PNG (maybe a Port Moresby side in the Cairns competition and eventually NEAFL North Conference) than into an NZ based AFL team.

Of course the media landscape will change by 2025, and in what directions is hard to pick. That will play a part.


In some ways the AFL is a victim of its own success. It has become so big and so expensive to operate a club that regional areas can not hope to field a team. (I know Geelong does, but they have the advantages of over a century of VFL/AFL incumbency, a large pre-existing support base, and even then when Ford closes their plant the Cats might struggle again.)
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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2025 is too early for the next round of expansion for mine.
I also don't see a viable home for a 20th team, unless there are to be 4 teams in Perth.

Darwin and surrounds will still be too small by then, and my home state of Tas is probably a "never" proposition. If Darwin's rapid growth continues, it may be worth looking at eventually but that would be much later than 2025.
So the money spent on saving the Hawks & the Roos is simply a waste. Being told that if Tassie support FIFO clubs its the way to get our own team. What a frigging lie that is/was.

I guess the sooner we dump the mailand carpetbaggers & spend the money developing our own football the better perhaps.

The standard of local football here, has been so badly drained by the AFL & other subsidised state level competitions, is now so poor that the main area of Tasmanian player recruitment last year appeared to via Basketball!!!!!.

At some stage either Tasmania is allowed to be treated like every other state & participate in the professional level of the game & benefit the community & the lower tiers of football, or the Australian game we love will just fade away here.
 

Howard Littlejohn

Brownlow Medallist
May 30, 2006
15,558
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Canberra
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North Melbourne
So the money spent on saving the Hawks & the Roos is simply a waste. Being told that if Tassie support FIFO clubs its the way to get our own team. What a frigging lie that is/was.
Yes. That money is a waste. And it is certainly a lie in terms of Tas getting its own team.
Even in terms of the economic benefits of the Hawthorn and North games are highly dubious.

I guess the sooner we dump the mailand carpetbaggers & spend the money developing our own football the better perhaps.
Yes.

The standard of local football here, has been so badly drained by the AFL & other subsidised state level competitions, is now so poor that the main area of Tasmanian player recruitment last year appeared to via Basketball!!!!!.
It hasn't been helped with Scott Wade and his cronies doing the ego thing, and ruining local footy in the lost cause of an AFL team or simply being seen with AFL names.

At some stage either Tasmania is allowed to be treated like every other state & participate in the professional level of the game & benefit the community & the lower tiers of football, or the Australian game we love will just fade away here.
The sad reality is that the Tasmanian mrket is too small for the AFL to care about, and too small for another sport to bother entering either meaning the AFL doesn't need to protect territory. The AFL already has complete dominance, they gain nothing by having a team there.
If Tasmania wasn't a separate state, but that may people in an area of that size inside another state, it wouldn't rate a mention. State boundaries aren't really a factor in whether an area can support a team or not.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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We've had this 'discussion' too many times already.
Clearly Victoria cannot support the number of teams it has got. Nor can it develop enough talented players it needs to play at the level that the clubs want.
If the AFL is just a life jacket for the old VFL then you are probably correct. Because only the current clubs will be allowed to survive, for historic reasons only. Clearly a lot of them add SFA to a national competition.
If it is just that, then the game will ultimately suffer for it.
 

flamingEMBERS

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 8, 2011
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AFL Club
West Coast
We might have new teams in 2025 but lets be honest i doubt there would/should be more than 18 teams. Sorry to the supporters of the minnows in melbourne but the AFL has fvcked you guys around for too long and your going to get strangled soon if something doesn't change.
 

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Shoei

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 26, 2011
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Perth
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2025 is too early for the next round of expansion for mine.
I also don't see a viable home for a 20th team, unless there are to be 4 teams in Perth.

Darwin and surrounds will still be too small by then, and my home state of Tas is probably a "never" proposition. If Darwin's rapid growth continues, it may be worth looking at eventually but that would be much later than 2025.

North Queensland also is problematic, treating it as one market when the distance from Townsville to Cairns is so large is fraught with danger. Also, regional network viewers are simply not worth the same amount to advertisers or content providers as major metro viewers. (That part also works against Tas, NT and ACT which all get regional networks and not the majors.)

New Zealand I don't see as a "must have" like GWS is. The existing media deals already include Sydney, GWS is about adding value to those deals. NZ is different, in that it is outside the big money deals and any team there won't add value to those rights for many decades (if ever). I'd rather see money diverted to the grass roots of NZ and PNG (maybe a Port Moresby side in the Cairns competition and eventually NEAFL North Conference) than into an NZ based AFL team.

Of course the media landscape will change by 2025, and in what directions is hard to pick. That will play a part.


In some ways the AFL is a victim of its own success. It has become so big and so expensive to operate a club that regional areas can not hope to field a team. (I know Geelong does, but they have the advantages of over a century of VFL/AFL incumbency, a large pre-existing support base, and even then when Ford closes their plant the Cats might struggle again.)
Four teams in Perth???? o_O

You're going to struggle placing one new team let alone two.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
16,539
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Hobart
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Collingwood
Four teams in Perth???? o_O

You're going to struggle placing one new team let alone two.
Four teams in Perth???? o_O

You're going to struggle placing one new team let alone two.
Yes agreed. Given that we have an 18 team comp & that we want to keep it at 18, then Clearly we have too many teams in Melbourne & Perth should have 3 teams, given the relative populations & football market sizes etc. IMO.
Also Tasmania, (before, rather than after I'm dead please, I've waited f*n long enough now:p)
 

flamingEMBERS

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 8, 2011
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Yes agreed. Given that we have an 18 team comp & that we want to keep it at 18, then Clearly we have too many teams in Melbourne & Perth should have 3 teams, given the relative populations & football market sizes etc. IMO.
Also Tasmania, (before, rather than after I'm dead please, I've waited f*n long enough now:p)
I hear your argument but if anything the number of teams in melbourne is killing the small teams. Perth could hold three but we'll be right. Let us figure out how to choose where to put a stadium, then give us another 5 years to get the plans, another 5 years to build it plus 4 years to go over budget and time. Then and only then should we consider it.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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I hear your argument but if anything the number of teams in melbourne is killing the small teams. Perth could hold three but we'll be right. Let us figure out how to choose where to put a stadium, then give us another 5 years to get the plans, another 5 years to build it plus 4 years to go over budget and time. Then and only then should we consider it.
U R Probably right:(

Clearly the AFL's agenda is a bit crowded at the moment.
1) Keep the old VFL in tact as much as possible, Pay for that with calls of equalisation etc etc
2) Two new clubs in two new locations that will take a generation to work & pay their way, if ever.
3) Smooth over the fact that the AFL rules lead to 'Tanking' Quick blame some on else for 'conduct --------- disrepute' & Argue that 'Tanking' doesnt exist. & fine for whatever they weren't doing:confused:
4) Drugs, oh sh*t, who wasnt watching that? Quick blame someone else.
5) Micromanage everything we can think of, If that fails 'blame someone else'.
6) Tasmania, Who? dont they already rent two clubs? (Bloody idiots!)
 

josh the gent

The Pieman
Sep 25, 2008
2,233
1,679
Melbourne
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Western Bulldogs
I think a team from NT and Tassie should happen sooner rather than later.

Teams like the Bullies need to either die or relocate.
It figures your a North Supporter.

My aim was strictly at the Bulldogs. I feel for NT and Tassie that want to be a part of the AFL and would have the entire backing of their govt to be a part of that, thats why. North struggle to have 30k supporters if that!
Correction, the Bulldogs and North get around 30,000 paying members. Both teams would have in excess of 100,000 actual fans, but like all sports teams, not everyone signs-up for memberships.

Darwin has a total pop of 129,000 - so why would it make sense, you would alienate a shiteload of people to gain exposure to other people?! - Phantom21 showing the intellect that we Vics expect from SA I suppose, maybe they cut the wrong head off at your birth.


Ultimately it is all about TV rights, the more AFL product that is served, the more TV rights will be paid.

I reckon they should be aiming for 23 teams (which is perfect for a 22 round competition), the TV rights will support teams regardless of supporter bases anyway...
 

Shoei

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 26, 2011
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Perth
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Yes agreed. Given that we have an 18 team comp & that we want to keep it at 18, then Clearly we have too many teams in Melbourne & Perth should have 3 teams, given the relative populations & football market sizes etc. IMO.
Also Tasmania, (before, rather than after I'm dead please, I've waited f*n long enough now:p)
Perth is a saturated football market.

You cannot just look at the population as a whole number and divide it by three and expect the 3rd team to be viable.

Correction, the Bulldogs and North get around 30,000 paying members. Both teams would have in excess of 100,000 actual fans, but like all sports teams, not everyone signs-up for memberships.

Darwin has a total pop of 129,000 - so why would it make sense, you would alienate a shiteload of people to gain exposure to other people?! - Phantom21 showing the intellect that we Vics expect from SA I suppose, maybe they cut the wrong head off at your birth.


Ultimately it is all about TV rights, the more AFL product that is served, the more TV rights will be paid.

I reckon they should be aiming for 23 teams (which is perfect for a 22 round competition), the TV rights will support teams regardless of supporter bases anyway...
You want another 5 teams!?

Wow....why not have another 10 teams or 20 teams? Who cares if they are financially viable, we'll just pay for the sake of having them.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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Perth is a saturated football market.

You cannot just look at the population as a whole number and divide it by three and expect the 3rd team to be viable.
.
Perth footy market would be 'saturated' if it only had 1 team:p . Having a city of 1.8million in a state of 2.5 million, 3 teams looks pretty balanced to me. Certainly better balanced than the 10 currently in Victoria
 

Phantom21

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Feb 7, 2013
245
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Adelaide
Darwin has a total pop of 129,000 - so why would it make sense, you would alienate a shiteload of people to gain exposure to other people?! - Phantom21 showing the intellect that we Vics expect from SA I suppose, maybe they cut the wrong head off at your birth.
Does 97 and 98 still hurt? Can you tell me what it is like to have never seen your club play in a GF?

The sooner teams like the dogs and roos relocate to NT and Tas the better for the comp. You will end up thriving and doing well and ensuring existence.
 

madmug

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 17, 2009
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Does 97 and 98 still hurt? Can you tell me what it is like to have never seen your club play in a GF?

The sooner teams like the dogs and roos relocate to NT and Tas the better for the comp. You will end up thriving and doing well and ensuring existence.
Why would Tassie want the VFL's leftovers. Whats the point?
WA & SA didnt get lumbered with anyones leftovers. I dont see the point in exporting excess Victorian suburban teams. Put them back into the VFL & they can play in their original suburbs on their original grounds.
 

flamingEMBERS

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 8, 2011
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Does 97 and 98 still hurt? Can you tell me what it is like to have never seen your club play in a GF?

The sooner teams like the dogs and roos relocate to NT and Tas the better for the comp. You will end up thriving and doing well and ensuring existence.
If these teams relocate to "football states" people in these states wont really jump off the team they are currently supporting. If they create new teams in their state people will be willing to leave their club to support a new team that they believe represents their area.
 

Gibbke

Premiership Player
Mar 21, 2008
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Absolutely. I'd jump ship for a genuine Tasmanian team, but it must be a dark green state side, split the home games, and not be at the expense of someone else's team. No relocations, not even Hawthorn, who are a Victorian team no matter how much they deal with York Park. Nothing else will do.
 

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