TV AFL 360 - 2021

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PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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I'm not sure how this refutes the criticism.

Rubbish.
For all I know you have done the same thing, I’m not sure. But when you turn in the TV on a daily basis and see a dozen uni classmates fronting various shows or broadcasts get a retrospective sense for who was ‘always a natural’
 

Sweet Jesus

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Dec 20, 2014
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For all I know you have done the same thing, I’m not sure. But when you turn in the TV on a daily basis and see a dozen uni classmates fronting various shows or broadcasts get a retrospective sense for who was ‘always a natural’
I'm sorry but are you trying to claim some kind of authority about this subject because you know some people who've appeared on TV?

A senior journalist should be able to talk about their area of expertise on camera without their brain exploding when they're asked to put ideas in a sequence. That is not a high bar.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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I'm not sure how this refutes the criticism. It merely confirms that he is unsuited for the job he does.

Rubbish.

Besides, we're not talking about how Robinson looks or whether he has to do a stand-up PTC. His job requires him to sit behind a desk and chat to a co-host about footy. That should be bread and butter for any journalist, regardless of whether they have a print background.
Also re your last point: yeah on a conversational basis, a back and forth basis etc he should be better at how he interacts with a co host.
A specialist print journalist doesn’t operate like that. They get the info first, by hook or by crook, probably in my experience often via a garbled unorganised phone interview, then they get 4-5 goes at turning it into a product fit for consumption.
 

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PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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I'm sorry but are you trying to claim some kind of authority about this subject because you know some people who've appeared on TV?

A senior journalist should be able to talk about their area of expertise on camera without their brain exploding when they're asked to put ideas in a sequence. That is not a high bar.
No, I’m claiming no authority but a reasonable amount of knowledge on the industry because I’ve studied the subject and have a degree in it and have worked in both print and broadcast media.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Dec 20, 2014
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Also re your last point: yeah on a conversational basis, a back and forth basis etc he should be better at how he interacts with a co host.
It's basic.

A specialist print journalist doesn’t operate like that.
Is that right? Please tell me more.

They get the info first, by hook or by crook, probably in my experience often via a garbled unorganised phone interview, then they get 4-5 goes at turning it into a product fit for consumption.
That doesn't mean you don't become practised at speaking coherently about your area of expertise, especially after doing it for 10 years FFS.
 

HahnPremium

Premiership Player
Jun 19, 2008
3,274
7,553
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I just get the feeling that all our juvenile and primary school footy reportage is divided into two stupid halves. A myopic preponderance on stats and "gut feels" of former players comparing their era to this. Is this really the only offering availed to us?
I hate USsports and openly admit to know little but the scant offerings I have seen they put much more preperation and thought into their analysis.
Ours seems like off the cuff the types, some more articulate than others admitttedly, who just wax on the moment.. And any "statistical analysis" is cherry picked to look like to be seen as golden visionaries for their own ego. The plethora of stats are important for coaches etc. For our poorly represented footy media, they sniff like bloddhounds to find weekly anomalies then 180 degree turn a week later to suit the popular trend.
Its juvenile reportage at best.
 

Sweet Jesus

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No, I’m claiming no authority but a reasonable amount of knowledge on the industry because I’ve studied the subject and have a degree in it and have worked in both print and broadcast media.
I'm not sure what kind of challenged print journalists you've been working alongside.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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It's basic.

Is that right? Please tell me more.

That doesn't mean you don't become practised at speaking coherently about your area of expertise.
Yes it is right. Most people plan a phone interview and write their questions or at least think about them but as soon as any tangent is reached based on literally every sports journalist I’ve ever observed, it just gets messy, haphazard, and a case of getting the info however the hell you have to and worrying abiut how to put it all together later. You don’t get that luxury on live tv or radio. Gerard is ******* annoying but he’s very professional about what he does.

I can’t do it. I would be exactly like robbo if I had to do what he does. My written vocabulary is a hell of a lot more articulate, for want of a better term than what my spoken one is. There’s no real excuse for his lack of organisation - he’s pretty clearly not prepped for a lot of the stuff they talk about but his vocabulary full stop
isn’t that great.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Dec 20, 2014
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a large gamut of them. What is your version of how they operate?
That if you get paid to develop an in-depth understanding of a subject while also having some basic faculty for language and communication, which writing for a living suggests, stringing sentences together and organising your ideas coherently isn't a very high bar, particularly if you've had 10 years of practice.

If there are spuds who can't speak or think in a straight line, they probably shouldn't be co-hosting a TV show.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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That if you get paid to develop an in-depth understanding of a subject while also having some basic faculty for language and communication, which writing for a living suggests, stringing sentences together and organising your ideas coherently isn't a very high bar, particularly if you've had 10 years of practice.
organising ideas certainly not.
Anyone paid to do it should be able to do that.
He’s simply never going to be articulate no matter how long he does the job for.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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Isn't that essentially my criticism?
Yes and I get it and I agree he’s not articulate and talks poorly I don’t disagree I’m simply saying that he’s more than likely print trained and he’s not exactly young so hasn’t grown up in the industry doing multimedia, so as such simply ‘being a journalist’ won’t automatically mean he’s going to be well spoken.
 

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Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
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Yes and I get it and I agree he’s not articulate and talks poorly I don’t disagree I’m simply saying that he’s more than likely print trained and he’s not exactly young so hasn’t grown up in the industry doing multimedia, so as such simply ‘being a journalist’ won’t automatically mean he’s going to be well spoken.
Of course he has a print background. That's no excuse for being incoherent, especially after 10 years of regular TV work. FMD.
 

revo333

Premiership Player
Jan 7, 2018
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So are the coaches. Unless something important has happened and they grill them about it it’s just cliches. Leon Cameron, Teague etc. would put a glass eye to sleep.
I thought Chris Scott and Nathan Buckley were really good when they were doing it every week.

Chris Scott is probably the only coach now I bother to watch on the show, he is very good at saying what he really thinks but he is experienced enough to say it in a way that won't get him into trouble.

You can tell all the other coaches are just trying to say the right things.

The players just try and be chummy with each other, which is understandable but I usually skip those parts.
 

Coops93

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 19, 2015
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+1 for being over Jack. I've been over him for a while in truth. They need a bigger rotation of players, trying to get unique players each week would be ideal.

I was hoping Eddie would be good and shake of some nerves and settle into it, indigenous representation on these shows is fairly low so I was really hoping he'd be interesting, but so far he's been a bit flat.
 

RichLeMonde

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Sep 26, 2019
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Yes and I get it and I agree he’s not articulate and talks poorly I don’t disagree I’m simply saying that he’s more than likely print trained and he’s not exactly young so hasn’t grown up in the industry doing multimedia, so as such simply ‘being a journalist’ won’t automatically mean he’s going to be well spoken.
Have you ever listened to The Age Real Footy podcast, with Michael Gleeson, Jake Niall and Caro? They discuss footy issues in a really interesting and informative way. Don’t know how they’d go on tv, but the first 2 are print journos who carry that knowledge of the issues, and their practice of forming developed arguments, quite well into a conversational medium.

Maybe Robbo has other strengths - networking and sniffing out a story - that make him an effective enough print journo and hide his other limitations, even though most print journos need to be (and seemingly are) pretty articulate?
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
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Have you ever listened to The Age Real Footy podcast, with Michael Gleeson, Jake Niall and Caro? They discuss footy issues in a really interesting and informative way. Don’t know how they’d go on tv, but the first 2 are print journos who carry that knowledge of the issues, and their practice of forming developed arguments, quite well into a conversational medium.

Maybe Robbo has other strengths - networking and sniffing out a story - that make him an effective enough print journo and hide his other limitations, even though most print journos need to be (and seemingly are) pretty articulate?
That’s a pretty reasonable observation
 

Van_Dyke

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 7, 2015
25,412
35,486
Perth
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Fremantle
Have you ever listened to The Age Real Footy podcast, with Michael Gleeson, Jake Niall and Caro? They discuss footy issues in a really interesting and informative way. Don’t know how they’d go on tv, but the first 2 are print journos who carry that knowledge of the issues, and their practice of forming developed arguments, quite well into a conversational medium.

Maybe Robbo has other strengths - networking and sniffing out a story - that make him an effective enough print journo and hide his other limitations, even though most print journos need to be (and seemingly are) pretty articulate?
I like Jake Niall, but he worked with Fox Footy for about 18 months and was regularly on shows like AFL Tonight and he just seemed incredibly nervous on camera the whole time
 

RichLeMonde

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Sep 26, 2019
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I like Jake Niall, but he worked with Fox Footy for about 18 months and was regularly on shows like AFL Tonight and he just seemed incredibly nervous on camera the whole time
Yeah right, hadn’t seen that. I’m sure there’s be plenty of people who would be fairly relaxed on a podcast but pretty nervy on tv. Maybe that’s the reason Robbo hits it so hard. I remember back in the day a mate was in the audience for the Footy Show, and said Newman had a bottle of Jack Daniels under the desk and got through about half of it over the course of the show. Once he told me that, I realised Sammy did all his crazy sh*t in the last 20 min of an episode when he was half cut lol.

Some people (like me) can look uncomfortable and fidgety in some situations but still get the job done. Did Niall speak well but look nervous on Fox, or did he actually struggle to express himself?
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
6,441
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Hobart
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Far too many interviews. They should focus on discussing topics more and have fewer interviews.
I hate interviews. They bore me to tears. All safe answers, giving nothing of importance away. If I watch a footy show it's because I want to hear people saying what they really think. I skip past all interviews - even the ones from my own club's players.
 

Ando727

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 12, 2009
6,441
13,546
Hobart
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Respectfully, I don't need a lecture on what alcoholism is and I certainly don't need to read any health related advice on the subject. My own father who played state football, A grade tennis, a single figure hcp golfer and travelled the World playing lawn bowls died at 52 of alcohol and smoking related illnesses.

I myself was a borderline high functioning alcoholic many years ago but fortunately I had people around me that intervened with some tough love and I thereafter changed my habits and choices. I was also lucky that 'my habit' had not quite reached the dependence/addiction stage.

Attitude. You maybe right but I see little evidence supporting a 2021 attitude (smoking the exception) vs 1987 in solving the increasing general societal issue of addiction? What I do see is a big shift away from 'self responsibility', which in my view is not solving anything...

A good mate I lost earlier this year had rarely spoken to me for years, mainly because of my 'attitude' towards his excessive drinking, which eventually killed him. He remained close to most of my other friends because they were far more accepting to the point of almost almost celebrating his addiction. FYI, he was a 'beer' alcoholic (and believe it or not, a GP) and for those who may not be aware of the warning signs, it is predominately loss of appetite.
Moreover, if any of you have a relative or friend who often sits down in a restaurant and struggles to finish a bowl of soup and then uses all sorts of wonderful excuses as to why they are not hungry, take note of how many beers they consume why they are telling you this...
Mate, you're all over the shop in this thread. First you had no sympathy for him, then you pretend to truly wish him a speedy recovery, now it's an advertorial for your superb life-turn around. Maybe you're too triggered to comment rationally on Robbo's illness, but you should probably cool it because you're coming across as pretty bent out of shape.
 

Sweet Jesus

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 20, 2014
25,354
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That’s a pretty reasonable observation
Pointing out that most journalists can string a sentence together and organise their thoughts into some coherent sequence, even if they don't have a background in TV? Surely that goes without saying. This is a low bar given journalists are professional communicators paid to develop expertise in a particular area.
 

PhatBoy

Brownlow Medallist
May 5, 2016
28,710
30,631
AFL Club
Geelong
Pointing out that most journalists can string a sentence together and organise their thoughts into some coherent sequence, even if they don't have a background in TV? Surely that goes without saying. This is a low bar given journalists are professional communicators paid to develop expertise in a particular area.
Some simply don’t present well. There are a whole bunch of my preferred cricket writers now that they have to do pieces to camera for cricinfo or whoever, that just bumble their way through it. Yes I get it, you would think that in that profession they should be able to but some of them simply aren’t up to it.
GRR Martin is a literary genius but when he talks he seems all over the place.
 

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