I think he is just contrarian...I wouldn't worry....keep posting!
AFL 7`s coming Internationally?
- Thread starter TWLS
- Start date
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I think he is just contrarian...I wouldn't worry....keep posting!
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
Don't have an ounce of logic.\ when it comes to cause and effect.
AFLX is an AFL product made to benefit the AFL.
All Australian Football indirectly benefits Australian Football overseas.
ATM there is not one ounce of strategy that directly targets Australian Football overseas
any better than the general success of Australian Football in Australia promotes Australian Football generally.
I'm still waiting for one post that explains how AFLX will directly benefit Australian Football overseas.
Come on TWLS explain how AFLX will benefit Australian Football overseas
any better than the current mechanisms that are in place overseas.
You can post AFLX to the cows come home but it just illustrates the lack of
understanding you have of the needs of overseas AF development.
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
settle down man, none of us know the answer, let it play out
I'll stick my neck out
1. The AFL have on a number of occasions (sometimes via are briefed journalist) highlighted international possibilities as a potential benefit of AFLX.
2. Without actually looking around for quotes (I might be prepared to do it on Tuesday when it's not on my time), I have heard two explicit possible bases of international possibilities of AFLX, roughly
a) access to venues that would allow for elite level football to be played OS in a stack more places than currently available
b) an official "rectangular pitched" small version of the game, played at an elite level, that would "legitimise" and standardise the significant small version football currently being played
It's important that you don't confuse what we have been drip fed via comms from the full strategic possibilities that have likely been considered by the AFL.
In addition to the reason stated above at a) the costs / logistics of 7 a-side are obviously far lower than 18 a-side. This is important to consider in terms of the threshold point of not only amateur team start up but also pro/elite set up down the track, or tour matches tournaments with existing AFL players in the short term.
I can see massive possibilities. There is next to no chance of (semi) pro football OS for decades. With AFLX I can easily see the plausibility of short run competitions where you could have teams with some restricted number of Australians and topped up with the best locals with a couple of the former being ex AFL players (paid most of the coin)...or current players in the case of the women.
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
Conceivably, you can set up clubs with only 10 players pretty much anywhere in the world to play AFLX.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
I always appreciate a reasoned and not an emotional bagging.
a) No. because currently there are many forms of AF played on pitches.
b) The legitimate and standardized game of 9-a-side is currently used in representative football O/S.
You seem to be ignorant of the history of 9-a-side. Whilst many countries experimented with smaller numbered teams and size of grounds the U.S.A is probably recognized as the first country to formalize the current system in widespread use.The U.S.A. were quick to realize that the travel of 18-a-side was killing development so they concentrated on developing 9-a-side Metro leagues. Most clubs in the U.S.A. now have Metro leagues and 18-a-side is reserved for representative football. The squad required for a full team equates to 2 to 4 Metro clubs. There are also examples of clubs that only compete on a Metro basis as they are "satelite" clubs. The English league was the most under-performing league untill it overcame resistance to 9-a-side. Now the English league has morphed into Welsh, Scottish and regional leagues. Europe is very much 9-a-side or reduced players. Germany was probably the last country to introduce 9-a-side along with it's traditional league. Most of the tournaments in Europe are indeed 9-s-side. It seems only Canada evolves in the traditional football sense in Vancouver and Toronto but they still widely use 9-a-side.
I also can see the possibilities but INDIRECTLY. AFLX is not filling some demand. It has to create demand.
Semi Pro ? It would be simpler to create a North American league out of existing leagues than wait for AFLX to storm the world.
Not going to happen. Why you ask. Simples.
You could have that anytime with with 9-s-side. Why haven't they done it before?
They haven't done it before because it doesn't work, that is the mix doesn't work.
I saw a bunch of Aussies blow away the French national team at an ANZAC game. It was truly a disgusting display by the Aussies.
Again, you have to realize that this is an AFL product and only indirectly benefit AF O/S.
You have to ask, Why hasn't the AFL done something before, why hasn't the AFL promoted the International Cup and
isn't what the SANFL doing with 9-a-side directly promoting AF.
Remember, 9-a-side football is football and plays out like football. There are only the most minor of tweaks.
Introducing AFLX is a confusion for players O/S and a possible detraction from traditional football.
So let us rejoice that the AFL has a new summer product that has exciting possibilities
but let's not extrapolate non-existent benefits.
- Thread starter
- #82
You are correct Noobpie about the references to a POSSIBLE move offshore from no less than Gillon McLachlan when he originally released the AFLX details. We can recall it was on the AFL Website last year, but cannot locate it now. Hope you have better luck.
We have noted from another source that Gil was in New York last year on a trip looking at possibilties for a Hybrid game against the Irish due to the large Irish Diaspora living there.
He apparently made some comments also about opportunities for other forms of footy that could be played there. Make of that what you will but one never knows with AFL House.
He may have been thinking out aloud or not, or just speaking generally about our game.
Interesting times ahead, because AFL sponsored 7 a side overseas will take place IF the AFL decide to do so.
You've not grasped the key difference of the AFL standardizing and taking overseas an elite short-form version of the game, say with just retired stars..
..and your a) and b) are incompatible...do you know why?
Though I am certain I know far less about international footy than you, I am well aware a lot of it is played 9-aside (and other reduced numbers) on soccer and rugby pitches. If you read my post again you'll notice the focus is firstly on the elite and commercial opportunities.
Sure, this is what proactive folks do
Maybe dove tail into it. It is far far more feasible to establish pro activity using an abbreviated form of the game though...that's the point
Maybe they should play that game with less Aussies on the field?
The idea would be to ensure competitive balance between teams not necessarily within teams. If you had, say, a 6 team competition and required, say, 6 of 12 squad players to be non Aussie / Irish, you would need 36 players...
No we will "extrapolate" the international possibilities because this thread is on the international forum and the AFL has repeatedly suggested this concept has international possibilities.
If you haven't got anything more to offer than reasserting that...
1) there are already small sided amateur games OS and
2) the AFL has released a complete fleshed out white paper on where this all might head in terms of OS
...and demanding discussion shut down based on these arguments, than perhaps stop contributing to this thread? People are still contributing clearly because they haven't bought your arguments...you can't control everything alas
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
Where is the link to this ? ATM we only have AFLX as an AFL product in an extremely short competition.
Where is the link to this or is this your thinking ?
Really ? Why would the AFL spend the money ?
Why go to the trouble and expense when the AFL could simply promote the International Cup, Euro Cup and 49th Parallel Cup etc etc.?
ATM you're dreaming.
ATM AFLX is an AFL product with no relevance to the organic growth of AF O/S.
I would go so far to say that talking about AFLX in association with O/S is a negative distraction offering false hope.
ATM AFLX is nothing but a design ready to be executed.
Again, I will be following AFLX and really hope AFLX succeeds.
I hope AFLX succeeds in Australia. I hope there is an international reaction.
I hope the international reaction leads to income and/or activity overseas.
That is going to take some time to eventuate if in fact it does occur.
You have to temper your excitement with the reality of performance and time scale of past and present AFL investment projects
such as NSW, Qld, Canberra, Tasmania, RSA, PNG, NZ, China and the South Pacific.
You have to temper your excitement with the reality of the general lack of investment in North America, Europe, Asia and SE Asia.
I said AFLX is an AFL product like the AFL and AFLW so it deserves it's own board.
AFL, AFLW and AFLX should appear on the International board when it applies to the international arena.
If somebody has official information on how AFLX will possibly affect AF O/S then I'd be glad to see it.
In the mean time I feel sad for all those hard-working volunteers o/s receiving next-to-no support
buried under an avalanche of sycophantic media on as yet untried product.
I'm sorry dude but I am going to have to give interacting with you on this. You have failed to grasp the basic premise of my argument (even though I have spelt it out three times) and the opportunities of an elite / commercial short version of the game that can be taken overseas. "Promoting" purely amateur tournaments is a completely different thing.
I don't need to "temper my excitement" even if I genuinely had any. You need to temper your tendency to want to control what people discuss on an anonymous internet forum. It's juvenile.
Stop reading this thread if you don't like it.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
The only thing I dislike is you continuing lack of comprehension.
You are talking that word potential. I'm talking about the reality of the moment.
There are so many projects that the AFL could fund that would leverage great benefits ATM
You've talked about what's possible not what's probable or what's the actual AFL plan ?
Have you been O/S ? Have you talked to O/S players. Do you know what O/S players think ?
You are entitled to a have a different opinion on the scope potential benefits of an elite version of small number / pitch Australian football on international development.
You are entitled to be frustrated that the AFL has under-invested in the games growth internationally
You are not entitled to demand that nobody can discuss the potential benefits to international growth of AFLX on the international forum.
It's really not that hard
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
FFS stick to the facts. I said AFLX DESERVES IT OWN BOARD.
IMO it's pointless stargazing about "potential" especially as the AFL hasn't released anything other than the basic comp in Australia.
IMO it's pointless stargazing in general.
IMO it's best to concentrate on present reality and developments actually in the pipeline.
I know of projects with great potential leverage trying to get underwritten.
It all comes down to money and leverage.
ATM the AFL has given NO SPECIFICS, NO IDEAS and NO COSTINGS for this stargazing of yours.
The AFL has had plenty of opportunity to underwrite ventures like you suggest. As yet it hasn't.
The clubs themselves have exhibited a number of games at high profile national comps in Canada, USA and France.
Currently there is a Florida league playing on gridiron fields with rules similar to AFLX.
Australian Football with reduced numbers and different formats is not new O/S.
AFLX is a new format for Australia that possibly has implications O/S.... down the track.....if it generates an income stream.....
if O/S media pick it up..........if the AFL loose their purse strings and promote and develop it.
For those following the international possibilities of AFL X in a relaxed, open minded and respectful manner....
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-01-02/x-marks-the-spot-for-asian-expansion
As an aside, I find the almost cliched "high-octane" adjective particularly grating
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-01-02/x-marks-the-spot-for-asian-expansion
As an aside, I find the almost cliched "high-octane" adjective particularly grating
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
Good to see a little bit of information rather than conjecture.
The focus of the article is on the availability of rectangular pitches in China, India, NSW and Qld.
Nothing new there. The point of difference is the quote "more scope to push the game".
As most of us know AF is well and truly established in NSW, Qld with small leagues in China and India.
Some of us know the 9-s-side football is the established tool for organic growth of Australian Football.
The AFL has experimented with 9s (not to be confused with 9-a-side) and Rec. football.
It seems from this this article that the AFL might use AFLX to push a small pitch game that
is a full contact version of football.
My observations.
The fact that the AFL is finally pushing a compact version of full-contact football is good.
Originally I perceived AFLX as summer in Australia but using AFLX in winter in NSW and Qld
as a way of alleviating ground shortages is a new perspective.
High profile football in summer is long overdue but I'm disappointed that the AFL haven't made the most of AFLW.
We all know of the the huge impact that AFLW has made on women's football in australia and O/S.
Saying the AFL will push this concept O/S implies that the AFL will invest in football O/S.
This is a major departure from the present "organic growth" scenaro and is to be applauded if it eventuates.
The AFL has only begrudgingly supported 9-a-side after it became established and only the SANFL are actively promoting it.
It'll be interesting to keep an eye on the SANFL summer comp.
For footballers O/S 9-a-side football plays out very closely as traditional football.
AFLX and 9-a-side football use the same length field but clubs O/S try to make the field as oval as possible
and mimic the traditional game as much as possible. e.g. most have boundary throw-ins.
The AFL have obviously looked at 9-a-side and said that seven is the magic number for the AFL.
The AFL could have brought in 7-a-side football as an elite form of 9-a-side.
No, because AFL players are too good so the concept further modified the rules to increase the resistance to scoring
and to remove the need for ruckmen.
AFLX is an AFL product and hopefully this produces benefits beyond it's entertainment value.
IR provides entertainment and has enabled some interaction at grassroots level internationally.
Again, disappointingly,the AFL has never managed to gain any leverage out of IR
It is quite possible that people would play AFLX as being exposed to this new game as 9-per-side
because of their low skill level and later gravitate to "traditional" 9-a-side when they learn the history.
I don't see established clubs changing from 9-a-side to AFLX because the former is an attempt
to be traditional as much as possible especially w.r.t. to rucking.
I have discussed with AFL Europe the possibly of the need to modify 9-a-side at representative level
to increase scoring resistance because of the growing standard of play but that is a minor matter.
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- Thread starter
- #91
Excellent excellent spotting NoobPie. What I am impressed with is the AFL CEO who has backed up with his comments last year with some action and planning with AFLX.
As I was always told - Be Humble in Victory -but jeez it is hard.
The title of this thread can now read- AFL 7`S are coming Internationally. Onya Gil.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
some more comments. LOL.
- Thread starter
- #93
Yeah its a pity you dont read some of his comments.
You have been well and truly owned and now you are now back pedalling at a rapid rate in an attempt to cover yourself. Its very juvenile.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
I read the article very closely and there is cause for optimism, cautious optimism but still no substance.
WTF. Where ?
Yes, you clowns are a disgrace. I sometimes think you must be trolls.
- Thread starter
- #95
First up we have now established that AFLX will be likely taken overseas the next question is what will AFL House do with it.
The article above has indicated China and India will be its focus along with NSW and QLD,and the only definite link nominated was Ports program.
So we now wait for more details and not general statements.
The article above has indicated China and India will be its focus along with NSW and QLD,and the only definite link nominated was Ports program.
So we now wait for more details and not general statements.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
"THE LEAGUE will use its new high-octane format, AFLX, to make a significant push into China and India in the future."
"AFL general manager of China, David Stevenson, told AFL.com.au the League had its sights firmly set on taking AFLX overseas to Asia."
Two positive statements without detail.
"Absolutely [that's our goal]. I think there are two reasons for that," he said.
"One is we're targeting at kids and families, that's our primary audience. That's why we have a shorter format, 10-minute halves, high scoring, lots of active play in that time. It's targeted at young kids, which will work in New South Wales and Queensland, as well as China and India.
"The second reason is logistically, in those markets (China and India), there are no venues. In China as we found there are not a lot of venues that are oval. In India, it's a little easier as they play a lot of cricket, but in China it's harder.
"Some part of New South Wales and Queensland there's a lot of rugby and soccer fields, so AFLX could work there too."
That suggests the AFL will invest in the like of development officers to promote and set up AFLX games.
That suggests that AFLX will be shown to an O/S market so they have something to promote.
Not a problem within Australia one would expect.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Some part of New South Wales and Queensland there's a lot of rugby and soccer fields, so AFLX could work there too."
But "could" suggests that the AFL are stargazing a.t.m. w.r.t. NSW and Qld.
The AFL hasn't yet set a timeline for when it might attempt to introduce AFLX into the Asian market, but it is keen to get participation programs up and running in those regions.
Again, "hasn't yet set a timeline" suggests the AFL are stargazing a.t.m. w.r.t. Asia.
It would seem that the AFL would wait until AFLX was aired O/S in a particular country before investing O/S.
"Australian football isn't a foreign concept in China, with Gold Coast and Port Adelaide playing the first ever game for premiership points in Shanghai in May last year."
"Chinese broadcaster Guangzhou TV also aired regular AFL games during the 2017 home and away season, as well as last year's Grand Final."
""India on the other hand is relatively untapped by the AFL, despite having the world's fastest growing economy."Port Adelaide, in conjunction with the AFL, has also set up football programs at 15 schools in Shanghai."
"In June last year, Essendon and Adelaide announced they were forming a strategic partnership to grow the game in India, in the hopes of eventually playing an exhibition match on Indian soil."
This is all historical information about AFL, how AFL has had an influence. It might suggest that they could mimic the success of AFL
but confusion might also weaken the "brand".
None-the-less there has been organic growth in India without AFL assistance as well as in China.
The development in China has been about traditional Australian Football by the PAFC not AFLX.
The Essendon game, again, is a planned is a traditional game of Australian Football and the EFC hopes to gain AFL supporters not AFLX.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It's going to be interesting to watch the development of AFLX in Australia.
IMO the AFL will be watching intently how the new game is received O/S by the media before further advancing.
The AFL have a wealth of AFL material to disburse and AFL games are shown widely around the world.
Despite AFL games are shown widely around the world I don't know of any investments emanating from this success.
AFLX will probably be successful but I imagine it will take time to penetrate O/S media markets.
Since the AFL doesn't have a timeline for O/S that's highly suggestive that the AFL will take a wait and see attitude
which is highly understandable and prudent.
"AFL general manager of China, David Stevenson, told AFL.com.au the League had its sights firmly set on taking AFLX overseas to Asia."
Two positive statements without detail.
"Absolutely [that's our goal]. I think there are two reasons for that," he said.
"One is we're targeting at kids and families, that's our primary audience. That's why we have a shorter format, 10-minute halves, high scoring, lots of active play in that time. It's targeted at young kids, which will work in New South Wales and Queensland, as well as China and India.
"The second reason is logistically, in those markets (China and India), there are no venues. In China as we found there are not a lot of venues that are oval. In India, it's a little easier as they play a lot of cricket, but in China it's harder.
"Some part of New South Wales and Queensland there's a lot of rugby and soccer fields, so AFLX could work there too."
That suggests the AFL will invest in the like of development officers to promote and set up AFLX games.
That suggests that AFLX will be shown to an O/S market so they have something to promote.
Not a problem within Australia one would expect.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"Some part of New South Wales and Queensland there's a lot of rugby and soccer fields, so AFLX could work there too."
But "could" suggests that the AFL are stargazing a.t.m. w.r.t. NSW and Qld.
The AFL hasn't yet set a timeline for when it might attempt to introduce AFLX into the Asian market, but it is keen to get participation programs up and running in those regions.
Again, "hasn't yet set a timeline" suggests the AFL are stargazing a.t.m. w.r.t. Asia.
It would seem that the AFL would wait until AFLX was aired O/S in a particular country before investing O/S.
"Australian football isn't a foreign concept in China, with Gold Coast and Port Adelaide playing the first ever game for premiership points in Shanghai in May last year."
"Chinese broadcaster Guangzhou TV also aired regular AFL games during the 2017 home and away season, as well as last year's Grand Final."
""India on the other hand is relatively untapped by the AFL, despite having the world's fastest growing economy."Port Adelaide, in conjunction with the AFL, has also set up football programs at 15 schools in Shanghai."
"In June last year, Essendon and Adelaide announced they were forming a strategic partnership to grow the game in India, in the hopes of eventually playing an exhibition match on Indian soil."
This is all historical information about AFL, how AFL has had an influence. It might suggest that they could mimic the success of AFL
but confusion might also weaken the "brand".
None-the-less there has been organic growth in India without AFL assistance as well as in China.
The development in China has been about traditional Australian Football by the PAFC not AFLX.
The Essendon game, again, is a planned is a traditional game of Australian Football and the EFC hopes to gain AFL supporters not AFLX.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It's going to be interesting to watch the development of AFLX in Australia.
IMO the AFL will be watching intently how the new game is received O/S by the media before further advancing.
The AFL have a wealth of AFL material to disburse and AFL games are shown widely around the world.
Despite AFL games are shown widely around the world I don't know of any investments emanating from this success.
AFLX will probably be successful but I imagine it will take time to penetrate O/S media markets.
Since the AFL doesn't have a timeline for O/S that's highly suggestive that the AFL will take a wait and see attitude
which is highly understandable and prudent.
- Thread starter
- #97
Anybody else have any thoughts on this. I will have more to say particularly on India, NSW and QLD, because the China Project is already underway with Port and the AFL without AFLX, and which AFLX now is likely to be added.
Would really like to hear some more thoughts from the regulars on here.
Would really like to hear some more thoughts from the regulars on here.
All hinges on how the AFL's domestic games go.
If successful from a crowd/tv/media interest point of view it could become a rallying call for small sided footy worldwide to standardize the format and rules. At which point it could grow in it's own right.
If the domestic version is not well received then it will be business as usual I guess.
If successful from a crowd/tv/media interest point of view it could become a rallying call for small sided footy worldwide to standardize the format and rules. At which point it could grow in it's own right.
If the domestic version is not well received then it will be business as usual I guess.
That sounds on the money...it needs to generate some momentum in the "heartland" in the first instance you'd think
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
There is no question about that.
IMO, AFLX would need to be shown or "pushed" O/S for it to have any effect O/S.
There is already 9-a-side football as a standard. The pros of 9-a-side football is that attempts to mimic AFL as much as possible in appearance and laws. I have already broached the subject of the possible need to modify the game at representative level due to the increasing standard of football. A solution would to be simply play 7-a-side.
It could grow into it's own high profile entity but I'm a little confused at the specific logic.
Is the aim to grow football or a new sport ?
AFLX is a high energy/short duration game aimed at elite players.
That's not a particularly good formula for representative football as such.
Traditional football could potentially lose some better players and lose some types of players.
If the aim is to grow traditional football then other forms of football like Auskick and Ausball
already provide a lead into 9-a-side then ultimately traditional football.
If the aim is to grow traditional football then I'd say promote what we have already.
If the aim is to grow a new form of football then there is a lot of work to be done.
