Opinion AFL Academy rules need to be refined

[Bostonian]

So you want to have your cake and not give anything as expected. Don’t blame you if want to keep the obvious advantages you have too, but you can’t want to take everything away from Northern clubs especially as it’s one of the few mechanisms that allows these clubs to have decent retention. Other sports worldwide share their Major final location anyway.

Rather than bleating how about you give up some of your advantages then we can perhaps dial back some of ours but I haven’t heard one thing you’d be happy to give up in return.

Glad the new leader in this area has come in he’ll be reasonable rather than the last one.

I actually agree with the changes for this year and they are fair.

You're delusional if you think a one game a year event location is a comparable advantage to a continuous pipeline of young talent where by you lock out the ability of other teams to access them.

The best teams win no matter where the game is played.

 

[bzparkes]

Don't blame Victoria for WA and SA being basket cases for years.

You've got whole football states to yourself to promote the game and have elite juniors coming through in larger numbers and you're failing.

WCE are one of he the richest clubs in the country and there's still whining about Victoria.

Stop leeching off Victorian talent and contribute more.

How are WA and SA clubs supposed benefit from elite juniors coming through when they constantly get picked off by Victorian teams, as there's simply far more of them and not many coming from those 2 states?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You're delusional if you think a one game a year event location is a comparable advantage to a continuous pipeline of young talent where by you lock out the ability of other teams to access them.

The best teams win no matter where the game is played.

You are delusional if a Melbourne side doesn’t have an advantage there and we won’t even talk about the lack of travel and everything else during the year I mean we have Melbourne teams playing “away” games at home for goodness sakes.

Bottom line is nothing will ever be “fair” but this new system this year is about as fair as you can get. Didn’t hear you whinging last year when you got the two boys for two cents in the dollar. It swings around. Least the new leader won’t rush into decisions and Swann knows what he’s doing

 

[Bostonian]

You are delusional if a Melbourne side doesn’t have an advantage there and we won’t even talk about the lack of travel and everything else during the year I mean we have Melbourne teams playing “away” games at home for goodness sakes.

Bottom line is nothing will ever be “fair” but this new system this year is about as fair as you can get. Didn’t hear you whinging last year when you got the two boys for two cents in the dollar. It swings around. Least the new leader won’t rush into decisions and Swann knows what he’s doing

And yet all of that is completely irrelevant when it comes to the most important thing.

Access to high end talent and what you have to give up to get it.

You have access to more avenues to that than any other club on the league through the various programs available.

And people who waffle on about FS always leave out the fact they are nothing like academies in regards to the sheer numbers of potential players those teams get a free hit at every single year. A FS might be lucky enough to appear every few years.


HGA, who gives a shit, it's a term people use as if it's something that actually impacts the majority of results. It doesn't.

I love how people bring up the MCG but they never bring up Marvel and how it's a crap ground that doesn't seem to advantage teams who have to call it home.

 

[Bostonian]

How are WA and SA clubs supposed benefit from elite juniors coming through when they constantly get picked off by Victorian teams, as there's simply far more of them and not many coming from those 2 states?

WA and SA have full access to Victorian players.

They don't have full access to NSW or QLD players though do they.

 

[bzparkes]

WA and SA have full access to Victorian players.

They don't have full access to NSW or QLD players though do they.

Sure but unlike the eastern states, the clubs have to fund development pathways themselves. The AFL does it over east, especially in Vic.

If Carlton had to pay for Victorian pathway development, then saw all those players from those same pathways going to other clubs, what incentive is there to invest money into it?

 

[Bostonian]

Sure but unlike the eastern states, the clubs have to fund development pathways themselves. The AFL does it over east, especially in Vic.

If Carlton had to pay for Victorian pathway development, then saw all those players from those same pathways going to other clubs, what incentive is there to invest money into it?

We do pay.

We gave up our traditional recruitment zones yes?

WCE took Harley Reid at #1 from Carlton's old recruitment zone.

And who do you think earns the bulk of the money that goes into supporting the Coates League?

Is it the VIC clubs who have large fan bases and big corporate pull?

You think GWS or GC are earning the league money to run it?

They get full access to it but they contribute sweet FA to it.

 

[bzparkes]

We do pay.

We gave up our traditional recruitment zones yes?

WCE took Harley Reid at #1 from Carlton's old recruitment zone.

And who do you think earns the bulk of the money that goes into supporting the Coates League?

Is it the VIC clubs who have large fan bases and big corporate pull?

You think GWS or GC are earning the league money to run it?

They get full access to it but they contribute sweet FA to it.

Sure, I agree academy rules need to change.

Recruitment zones haven't existed since the ND started, no point raising something from 30+ years ago now.

AFL pays for majority of the Coates league and around 70% of all players recruited come from Vic, which they massively benefit from Victorian players, especially metro, pulling the 'homesick' card and/or refusing to leave to begin with.

AFL doesn't contribute to development pathways in WA, outside of the club distribution that all clubs get, of which WCE are the equal lowest.

Kids from WA and SA know they're unlikely to stay home, so are more mentally prepared to move and stay in another state long term, especially at the point end of the draft.

 

[Bostonian]

Sure, I agree academy rules need to change.

Recruitment zones haven't existed since the ND started, no point raising something from 30+ years ago now.

AFL pays for majority of the Coates league and around 70% of all players recruited come from Vic, which they massively benefit from Victorian players, especially metro, pulling the 'homesick' card and/or refusing to leave to begin with.

AFL doesn't contribute to development pathways in WA, outside of the club distribution that all clubs get, of which WCE are the equal lowest.

Kids from WA and SA know they're unlikely to stay home, so are more mentally prepared to move and stay in another state long term, especially at the point end of the draft.

I raised it because some people seem to think that Victorian clubs gave up nothing and contribute nothing to supplying the majority of the high end talent to the league.

Like it's all simply "the AFL".

The AFL has the money to pay because of the large Victorian clubs profiles.

West Coast are a rich football club. The equal of any of the large Victorian clubs outside of Collingwood.

SA and WA kids are no different to VIC kids though.

Except the WA and SA clubs are more fortunate than the VIC clubs as when any young player wants to return home it's only ever a choice between two clubs. Not ten.

 

[bzparkes]

Except the WA and SA clubs are more fortunate than the VIC clubs as when any young player wants to return home it's only ever a choice between two clubs. Not ten.

People keep saying this but how many players have returned to Carlton alone from the expansion clubs, as opposed to WCE from any club?

 

[Bostonian]

People keep saying this but how many players have returned to Carlton alone from the expansion clubs, as opposed to WCE from any club?

No elite players that's for sure.

Freo just got Jackson back and now he wants out already.

They landed Jesse Hogan, he left too.

They also got Bolton.

Seems if WA players want to get back home they can.

WCE are always in the mix for any WA player if the decide they want to go back to WA.

Its not like WCE aren't able to try and tempt WA players back home.

 

[bzparkes]

No elite players that's for sure.

Freo just got Jackson back and now he wants out already.

They landed Jesse Hogan, he left too.

They also got Bolton.

Seems if WA players want to get back home they can.

WCE are always in the mix for any WA player if the decide they want to go back to WA.

Its not like WCE aren't able to try and tempt WA players back home.

Yep, Freo's got a few and half of them go back.

WCE have tried a lot to tempt players back but it almost never happens. People underestimate how hard it is to get players to commit to a WA club.

Kelly's probably the only 'star' WA player WCE have managed to bring home for as long as I can remember.

Freo have always been active at the trade table and it's backfired a lot, to much hilarity.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

And yet all of that is completely irrelevant when it comes to the most important thing.

Access to high end talent and what you have to give up to get it.

You have access to more avenues to that than any other club on the league through the various programs available.

And people who waffle on about FS always leave out the fact they are nothing like academies in regards to the sheer numbers of potential players those teams get a free hit at every single year. A FS might be lucky enough to appear every few years.


HGA, who gives a shit, it's a term people use as if it's something that actually impacts the majority of results. It doesn't.

I love how people bring up the MCG but they never bring up Marvel and how it's a crap ground that doesn't seem to advantage teams who have to call it home.

Retention is related to it, it's actually the biggest reason the AFL wants to keep these academies, so clubs are not screwed every year. The end goal will be a higher percentage in the squad being local, this helps retention which is only a positive for all clubs.

Do you realise with the new rules it's become harder to match these bids this year, I do find it highly ironic you had no issues last year though. The new rules are going to mean clubs will have decisions to make whether to match multiple high bids as it will force deficits OR a trade of a good player to make room. This good player may be one from Vic/SA who go home. Northern clubs always get screwed when players go home in the trade anyway I mean we were forced to give up Dawson for 2c in the dollar.

How about we wait till this year is done, then we can tweak it if need be, I don't see what the rush is how do we even know how the new system will work in practice until we give it a go. Plenty of NGA/academy players won't be matched due to the bidding changes.

 

[Broski]

Lets go back to zones and abolish the national draft. For example, give St Kilda rightful access to every kid involved in the Sandringham Dragons program, as they train and develop at RSEA Park.

I am sure absolutely no one would have no problems with that?

Seriously though, supporters from the rugby states need to pull their heads in. You are currently abusing this gravy train and disguising it as "we are bringing more Queenslanders and New South Welshman to the game!".

Cool. You can do that but they don't have to play for your club. If you can't see the damage the academies have and will continue to cause to the integrity of the draft, then there is no hope for you.

Yes, the Suns have never played finals, but they will play finals for the remainder of the decade and beyond if they are able to add three top 15 kids to their list for a handshake and warm can of soft drink.

However, the AFL doesn't care about equality in opportunity, so I guess it won't matter. It's a Michael Mouse competition anyway.

 

[Jirik13]

if they are able to add three top 15 kids to their list for a handshake and warm can of soft drink

Common, did you notice changes to draft index value table? At least upgrade to a premium steak.

BTW, Suns accumulated 3 first round picks (2 through players trade) as they expected changes in picks value. They will have to use them with 2 top ten predicted bids. With no academy kids they could simply draft kids from other states.

Point is academy, F/S, NGA kids will not be for a handshake from this year on. Sure Suns get local kids but will have to pay reasonable price as yours and other clubs will also have to for F/S and NGA kids.

Another good news, besides Uwland, Patterson and Addinsall, there are another 3-4 Suns academy kids that will be most probably drafted. All yours. So, I don't want to hear that Suns don't contribute to the draft pool

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Lets go back to zones and abolish the national draft. For example, give St Kilda rightful access to every kid involved in the Sandringham Dragons program, as they train and develop at RSEA Park.

I am sure absolutely no one would have no problems with that?

Seriously though, supporters from the rugby states need to pull their heads in. You are currently abusing this gravy train and disguising it as "we are bringing more Queenslanders and New South Welshman to the game!".

Cool. You can do that but they don't have to play for your club. If you can't see the damage the academies have and will continue to cause to the integrity of the draft, then there is no hope for you.

Yes, the Suns have never played finals, but they will play finals for the remainder of the decade and beyond if they are able to add three top 15 kids to their list for a handshake and warm can of soft drink.

However, the AFL doesn't care about equality in opportunity, so I guess it won't matter. It's a Michael Mouse competition anyway.

The index has been changed, the values are significantly higher this season. How about rather than whinging like your President seems to do weekly wait for it this season. If we need to make slight changes we will at the end of the year leading into the Tassie drafts.

 

[botts]

The Academy and father-son draft dilemma

A deep dive, and answer to, the current state of the AFL Draft system.

www.zerohanger.com

Good article

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Why was this not an issue 20 years ago?

 

[botts]

Why was this not an issue 20 years ago?

Academy’s are the nail in the coffin

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Academy’s are the nail in the coffin

Sydney had academy players on tap in the noughties.

Felt like the Swans had 8 academy rookies back then.

Brisbane similar.


I had no issues with both then and I don't now.

Actually, I lie.
I have one issue.

There's not enough yearly these days.

Using Brisbane as an example, if last year was 2005 for example, instead of seeing Ashcroft, Marshall and Gallop be the only Lions picks, additional picks (rookies maybe) could've been used on, say, Ryan Gilder, Charlie Hewitt, Wyatt Greenaway, Jake Fazldeen and Tom Gillett.

 

[botts]

Sydney had academy players on tap in the noughties.

Felt like the Swans had 8 academy rookies back then.

Brisbane similar.


I had no issues with both then and I don't now.

Actually, I lie.
I have one issue.

There's not enough yearly these days.

Using Brisbane as an example, if last year was 2005 for example, instead of seeing Ashcroft, Marshall and Gallop be the only Lions picks, additional picks (rookies maybe) could've been used on, say, Ryan Gilder, Charlie Hewitt, Wyatt Greenaway, Jake Fazldeen and Tom Gillett.

The misses arnt the issue. It’s the gold they hit that no one else is allowed to touch. I’ve heard Sydney say that only a tiny percentage of there academy players make it. That’s a terrible argument. Gold mines dig up so much dirt compared to the tiny percentage of gold per ton. But they still do it because it profitable.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

The misses arnt the issue. It’s the gold they hit that no one else is allowed to touch. I’ve heard Sydney say that only a tiny percentage of there academy players make it. That’s a terrible argument. Gold mines dig up so much dirt compared to the tiny percentage of gold per ton. But they still do it because it profitable.

So Isaac Heeney’s been what?
12+ years in the Swans camp?

He’s a success in the AFL not only because of the academy but also because of what he does that we do not see.

Damned if they succeed.
Damned if they fail.

Nothing is straightforward in life and sport.

Ditto Tom Hawkins and the FS situation.

FS.
AC.
NGA.

As long as there’s turnover in lists yearly, play on.

 

[botts]

So Isaac Heeney’s been what?
12+ years in the Swans camp?

He’s a success in the AFL not only because of the academy but also because of what he does that we do not see.

Damned if they succeed.
Damned if they fail.

Nothing is straightforward in life and sport.

Ditto Tom Hawkins and the FS situation.

FS.
AC.
NGA.

As long as there’s turnover in lists yearly, play on

You telling me it’s not compromising the draft?

 

[Miller1971]

Academy’s are the nail in the coffin

NGA academies are. The northern academies genuinely make sense.

I barrack for the Saints, so I know I'm a little out of whack with my fellow sainters - but I live in Brisbane and been part of the footy community up here on the GC mostly and more recently in Brisbane for the past 10 years and the academies are absolutely neccessary for expanding the game in QLD.

End of the day, once the Lions/Suns start having more than 50% of their lists as home grown (same for Swans/GWS) then it would be time to start pegging them back then - as it means the job is almost done.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

You telling me it’s not compromising the draft?

It is compromising the draft but I'm probably the only one without a problem with it.

When was the last open season draft?