AFL = AFLPA

[The Swert]

And I'm totally down with the view that instead of grizzling about the AFLPA, we all should be bandying together to join things like this:

http://www.aflfans.org.au/

But this is modern Australia. People gets outraged but are too lazy to do anything about it except call talkback radio or write on an internet forum.

The days of 'bandying together' are dead in this country.

 

[ShanDog]

I think the only real negative that increased AFLPA influence has brought about are the issues around player movement between clubs and contractual issues which have been discussed a fair bit.

So taking a step back from the specifics, I can't really think of much else that is hurting the game itself. Salary caps and player payments aren't directly affecting the fan 'experience' of the game through either TV or stadium attendance. The drug cheating saga is a unique situation and even then, there's not much that can be said about the AFLPA's interference - in the end it went through the full process and results were reached.

There's no doubt the AFLPA is increasing its influence and there is scope for that to result in negatives for the game. But I don't think it's there yet. Dollars will always drive the comp though, and the pendulum would swing back the other way despite any AFLPA resistance.

 

[twotooto]

Wrong.

It's the supporters (our) league. We don't watch, tune in or turn up to the games, and it would cease to exist. Or at least the million dollar salaries playing in state of the art stadiums would be non existent. Do you think the Australian government contributes to the sport because of Joel Selwood or Fyfe, or is it for the fans of the sport? We are the number one stakeholder. The players choose to play because of the amazing remuneration they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere, in addition to superstar status. If the players left, there's probably a million others that would be willing to take their place.

If they don't like the conditions, go find a workforce that they do.

Sick of supporters coming second to the AFLPA.

The most valuable asset imo, like in any other form of entertainment is actually the players, the people putting on the "show". I see no problem whatsoever in players getting a generous piece of the pie - without them there would be nothing to support.

Supporters are no doubt an integral part of any entertainment since, without them, the size of the pie gets a lot smaller but to say that if the players don't like it they should more or less get f'd is just laughable.

It's also worth noting that a vast amount of revenue generated comes from things like sponsorship and media rights. I believe the latest media deal is 2.5 billion dollars over 6 years.

Even still, I think you will find that most AFL players have very little say in what they do or don't get. They aren't the ones calling the shots.

I don't even know why there is a distinction between the AFL and AFLPA. The AFLPA is just an extension of the AFL. They are a toothless tiger if ever there was one.

The real culprit in all of this is absolutely the AFL, not the players. These days the grassroots, bleed for the club, week in week out supporter clearly does not figure very prominently on the AFL's "people to look after" list, yet the business that is the AFL continues to thrive and grow, generating more revenue each year and is bigger than that of any other sport in this country.

I would wager that most people that go to games these days would only see 1 or 2 games a year. They're just there for something different and a day/night out with friends in the same way that people go to a music concert, but to the AFL, it's not really an issue as long as there's bum on seats. This is reflected in the AFL's penchant for being the social conscience of the universe, sticking its crooked nose into any and every cause where they can be the good guy, manipulating outcomes and making policies on the run just to appease the masses.

 

[RandomDents]

This is a good example of why organised labour movements are so effective.

We the supporters have a vast vast majority of people who have a stake in the game.

The players are more important than us, but they ate tiny in number.

They have 100% of their membership in a trade union.

We have 0%.

They win because they are organised.

This is why unions are constantly being attacked by politicians and business leaders. They're too effective at representing the interests of their members.

If you don't like it, get organised. Whinging will change nothing, just like it changes nothing for non union workers in the workforce.

To counter, sir, this is exactly why unions are a negative influence on any business. They represent the minority. They have zero 'skin in the game' and invest nothing, but expect a 'share' of the profits. Profits go to the owners of the company, labour should be a competitive market, but go to the cheapest who can perform the duties.

Unions are a cancer - just IMO - they should be outlawed.

 

[radiojake]

Love live the union


all those scabs who spit upon the concept of organised labour movements can hand back their holiday/sick pay

 

[RandomDents]

I think the only real negative that increased AFLPA influence has brought about are the issues around player movement between clubs and contractual issues which have been discussed a fair bit.

So taking a step back from the specifics, I can't really think of much else that is hurting the game itself. Salary caps and player payments aren't directly affecting the fan 'experience' of the game through either TV or stadium attendance. The drug cheating saga is a unique situation and even then, there's not much that can be said about the AFLPA's interference - in the end it went through the full process and results were reached.

There's no doubt the AFLPA is increasing its influence and there is scope for that to result in negatives for the game. But I don't think it's there yet. Dollars will always drive the comp though, and the pendulum would swing back the other way despite any AFLPA resistance.

I have concerns about players wanting a specific % of AFL revenue. How can a club forward plan if that occurs?

I remember an interview with Monty a while back where he said that the AFLPA were comfortable with the salary cap reducing if AFL revenue did....what would that mean for a club though?

If they get that deal, I can see clubs moving from a fixed $$ figure per year to a % of the cap per year.

i.e. if the cap was $10m this year, you might offer 4%, 4%, 5% instead of anticipating future changes, as no club knows which way the cap will move.

 

[Gollo]

Paul Marsh irritates me to a life-questioning extent. I feel this is the appropriate setting to share this thought.

 

[RandomDents]

Love live the union


all those scabs who spit upon the concept of organised labour movements can hand back their holiday/sick pay

just quietly, go jump.

Unions caused the death of manufacturing in this country - it is because of unions it's cheaper to dig up dirt in Aust, ship it to China, turn it into steel, ship it back to Aust then simply doing it all here.

Oh, don't forget the cars, furniture, etc etc. Unions have killed off their own jobs, then cry poor. You reap what you sow.

 

[StonesThrow]

Love live the union


all those scabs who spit upon the concept of organised labour movements can hand back their holiday/sick pay

This.

I don't like the union at my workplace for a few reasons, but if it weren't for unions throughout time, we would all be working in much lesser conditions. People take this for granted.

 

[StonesThrow]

just quietly, go jump.

Unions caused the death of manufacturing in this country - it is because of unions it's cheaper to dig up dirt in Aust, ship it to China, turn it into steel, ship it back to Aust then simply doing it all here.

Oh, don't forget the cars, furniture, etc etc. Unions have killed off their own jobs, then cry poor. You reap what you sow.

I think you have unions mixed up with globalisation here.

 

[RandomDents]

I think you have unions mixed up with globalisation here.

pretty sure I don't. Ever sat in on a EBA/Award negotiation? FFS it's painful.

month 1-2 = agree on the important stuff, base wages, OT triggers, allowances
month 3-15+ = dither about on rubbish - how much of a tattoo can be shown, what piercings are allowed, does 4 or 6 minutes count as being late

Unions make life worse for everyone, you don't see it until you see how they operate. It is disgusting and makes our country noncompetitive.

 

[RandomDents]

This.

I don't like the union at my workplace for a few reasons, but if it weren't for unions throughout time, we would all be working in much lesser conditions. People take this for granted.

Feminism argument.

Women in the past had it hard, so we need feminism now.

Neither unions nor feminism are relevant in 'current year', we have it pretty darn good. If it's ever required again, bring it back. Else, it can stay in yesteryear.

 

[radiojake]

just quietly, go jump.

Unions caused the death of manufacturing in this country - it is because of unions it's cheaper to dig up dirt in Aust, ship it to China, turn it into steel, ship it back to Aust then simply doing it all here.

Oh, don't forget the cars, furniture, etc etc. Unions have killed off their own jobs, then cry poor. You reap what you sow.

capitalism did that

 

[radiojake]

Neither unions nor feminism are relevant in 'current year', we have it pretty darn good. If it's ever required again, bring it back. Else, it can stay in yesteryear.

wow


there are no other words

 

[RandomDents]

capitalism did that

Again, no.

Capitalism made a competitive market.

Unions made our particular market noncompetitive.

Not gonna bother any more unless you make a half-reasonable point - you do regressive economic principles and arguments pretty well, but neither deals in actual facts. Lemme guess, next it's the patriarchy and 'rape culture'?

Until you have real-world experience with unions and how they operate, keep picking selective quotes and being wrong about them.

 

[radiojake]

... ah yes, because writing out those 5 paragraphs outlining why feminism is still important, and why unions are still important (while acknowledging that neither are perfect, but nothing is) would have made you re-think your elitist, scumbag, selfish politics

I think not

So I saved myself the hassle

 

[The Blue Baggers]

AFLPA whole agenda is more pay for less play

 

[radiojake]

Capitalism made a competitive market.

Unions made our particular market noncompetitive.

Capitalism exploits labour and resources

Unions formed to limit the exploitation

They are a result of, and thus, a part of, the capitalism economic system


It's all corrupt, but I'll stick with the side that atleast attempts to not outright * people over wholesale

 

[RandomDents]

... ah yes, because writing out those 5 paragraphs outlining why feminism is still important, and why unions are still important (while acknowledging that neither are perfect, but nothing is) would have made you re-think your elitist, scumbag, selfish politics

I think not

So I saved myself the hassle

Both are cancer, I used feminism as an example, this isn't the forum to get into the nitty-gritty of that.

elitist? don't pretend you know me.
Scumbag? I prefer c*&t or shitlord
selfish? of course, we all should be. Being anything else drags society back

Focusing on selfish, you want profits you didn't create (via unions, not your own risk) and I want what the market says I'm worth.

Who is more selfish?

p.s. throwing in personal insults without replying is a textbook regressive move - well played, sir.

 

[Toump Ass]

Women in the past had it hard, so we need feminism now... Neither unions nor feminism are relevant

Lemme guess, next it's the patriarchy and 'rape culture'?

Given this thread began as a whinge about Jobe Watson it's done really well to get where it has. Kudos to everyone involved.

And RandomDents... the fact you are bringing up "rape culture" when talking about workplace rights is a bit weird. Sorry "bruh".

 

[StonesThrow]

pretty sure I don't. Ever sat in on a EBA/Award negotiation? FFS it's painful.

month 1-2 = agree on the important stuff, base wages, OT triggers, allowances
month 3-15+ = dither about on rubbish - how much of a tattoo can be shown, what piercings are allowed, does 4 or 6 minutes count as being late

Unions make life worse for everyone, you don't see it until you see how they operate. It is disgusting and makes our country noncompetitive.

They are a pain, I agree. But they are not even close to the cause of car manufacturing leaving our shores (for example). You think if Holden and Ford workers took pay cuts, that they would be saved? Maybe prolonged the death but that's it. It's always going to be cheaper to exploit 3rd world countries. Unless you want to live in one?

 

[sataris]

I think the gist of this thread is.

Filthy peasants overseas are willing to work for less money than local filthy peasants.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[radiojake]

Both are cancer,

Perpetual growth based economics more closely resembles cancer than unions or feminism. Consuming resources until they are depleted, thus killing the host

elitist? don't pretend you know me.

Ah ok, so the part where you outlined what kind of job I had wasn't pretending you know me, got ya

selfish? of course, we all should be. Being anything else drags society back

Oh hello Gekko, welcome to bigfooty



*I was going to write what I thought was a smart response about the terrible Independence Day 2 movie I watched last night, and with the old President from the first movie sacrificing himself on the alien ship. But then I checked to find out Michael Douglas and Bill Pullman are not the same actor, so it's a shame that reference won't work

 

[SBYM]

The AFLPA are a joke, all they are is a vehicle for the executive to further their profile and career.

Honest question, not a troll...of all the characters of the saga, based on their role in it, where does the AFLPA sit in the eyes of the Essendon supporters?

Obviously you can only speak for yourself, but you'd know better than most the general lie of the land.

 

[_Mike_]

If you want to talk about unions in general, take it to the SRP board otherwise stay on topic - regarding the AFLPA