Covid 19 (OPEN DISCUSSION)

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Once 80 to 90 per cent of people are vaccinated, yes.

But the vaccines aren’t 100 per cent effective so they’re sh*t.


Lol I'm glad you've admitted it.

So it's not effective at 60 percent...and not effective at 70 percent.

But it's ok to treat it like the flu and everyone be free at 80 percent...unless you're in WA where it's 90 or 95 percent according to McGowan.

So which health advice is right and when is the vaccine really safe and working enough...80, 90, 95, 98.6 or 99.99999999999999999999999 percent

I'm struggling because all the health advice changes depending on which premier I listen to.
 
just a reminder that this is a two way street. all those advocating society be carved up and privileges doled out based on personal medical choices will also be judged. not only by society but in the history books. not sure segregation will be look back on as a big winner.

On the contrary, I suspect people will look back on this period and think "Holy *! I can't believe people had access to modern medicine and the expert advice of literally thousands of medical professionals, and still chose to believe conspiracy theories from Facebook."
 

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It’s not about complete safety, it’s best trying to balance risk minimisation with moving forward.

All those people shouting “this is tyranny, can’t keep us locked up forever, open the country up” will also turn around and say “oh, your hypocritical policy says it’s unsafe at 60% but not at 90%, hmmm how very interesting” and not see how entirely bad faith that is.

But also ******* lol if you think I’m getting in a back and forth with Smotie, so peace out friends.
 
I'm struggling because all the health advice changes depending on which premier I listen to.

Your mistake is listening to health advice from a politician. They are trying to make trade offs between the health advice they are getting from experts, and the pressure being put on them by the *******s marching in the street, plus the dickheads bleating in Canberra (y'know, the ones that don't actually run any of the hospitals).

For the record, the appropriate vaccination rate for the delta strain is between 80-90% of the entire population. But since we aren't vaccinating children under the age of 12, the rate amongst those 12+ needs to be north of 90% in order to bring the entire population into the 80-90% band. At that rate, the r0 is expected to be less than 1, which slows down infection rates. If you don't have a 90% vaccination rate, you need to combine it with other measures such as mask mandates otherwise an outbreak is going to occur. States opening up at 70% or 80% are just taking a punt that they'll 'coast' to 90% before any serious outbreak occurs or numbers spike.
 
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Your mistake is listening to health advice from a politician. They are trying to make trade offs between the health advice they are getting from experts, and the pressure being put on them by the *******s marching in the street, plus the dickheads bleating in Canberra (y'know, the ones that don't actually run any of the hospitals).


Yes you are correct.

And Dan Andrews wanted to take the power away from the health experts and leave it up to him to decide when it's a pandemic or not.

He's a smart one he is.
 
It’s not about complete safety, it’s best trying to balance risk minimisation with moving forward.

All those people shouting “this is tyranny, can’t keep us locked up forever, open the country up” will also turn around and say “oh, your hypocritical policy says it’s unsafe at 60% but not at 90%, hmmm how very interesting” and not see how entirely bad faith that is.

But also ******* lol if you think I’m getting in a back and forth with Smotie, so peace out friends.

I'm just putting to practice what I learned from Miguel 😜
 
Great, so out of 4 recent examples we've learned that 2 were unvaccinated. Now do the other 100.

If people don't want to believe there is an association between mRNA vaccines and myocarditis, pericarditis and other heart issues then thats fine, ignore the increasingly established consensus.

If people want to pretend that playing elite sport while suffering from one of these conditions isn't dangerous, thats fine too. You are wrong.

If people want to conflate the ever present background rates of cardiac events in elite athletes to explain away a significant increase in these events over the past 6 months, thats fine too.

I'll throw you guys a bone even, if it makes you feel any better, pre-covid discussion here:


Sudden deaths in footballers are more common than we previously believed and despite screening, cardiac conditions are still the leading cause of death in footballers. There are increasing calls made by some doctors and bereaved families for regular cardiac testing for footballers.

In recent times there have been a number of high profile deaths including Marc-Vivien Foe aged 28 and former England defender Ugo Ehiogu, who died, aged 44. However, possibly the most well-known case of a sudden cardiac arrest is that of Fabrice Muamba who collapsed whilst playing for Bolton Wanderers. Thankfully, due to the actions of staff and a doctor at the stadium, he managed to pull through.

But why does this happen? Sudden cardiac arrest in young athletes is mostly caused by a number of factors, with the most common being:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) – an inherited condition where the heart muscle walls become thick. The thickened muscle can then affect the heart’s electrical system, leading to fast or irregular heartbeats (arrhythmias) which can lead to sudden death.

Coronary artery abnormalities – sometimes people are born with coronary arteries that are connected abnormally. These arteries then become compressed during exercise and do not provide proper blood flow to the heart muscle, leading to sudden death.

Undetected congenital heart disease (present at birth)"

As it happens and as I have mentioned before I happened to be in one of the categories above and gave away playing football not long after having a scary episode at training after a collapsing immediately after a repeat sprints drill. The condition didn't get picked up until years later and I had to give away lifting heavy as well and go on medication and rehabilitate my heart. I was pro vaccine for covid until I started hearing bad things about Pfizer, because myocarditis scares the s**t out of me. If I had not of educated myself, and if I had of been first in line to get the jab, I would of put myself in harms way. As it happened I waited, and as the association became common knowledge it turned out that my Dr became aware of this too and recommended against Pfizer. So I got Az, because I'm 40 and it makes sense for me to get a little bit of protection from the worse outcomes and because I was informed enough about the clotting issues with adenovirus vaccines to be pretty confident that asking for the shot to be aspirated basically eliminates the clotting risk. If this pandemic was 20 years ago its likely I would of though myself bulletproof and if playing AFL level football like most 20 year olds I would of just done what the club Dr told me. With an undetected heart condition plus the inflamatory effect of the mRNA vaccine on the heart I could easily of wound up a statistic. It really cannot be overstated how reckless mandatory vaccination of these players is, this is very close to home for me and I feel ill for these guys having to put themselves at risk unnecessarily. You can't even talk about this stuff without an absolute onslaught of idiocy and vitriol coming at you from the peanut gallery. This toxic environment could easily cost a player their life, and odds on it will.

The players should be allowed to choose, and they should be free to discuss the risks, and they should be educated as to what the risks are. They are a special group bearing the highest risk of any in the community outside the severely immunocompromised and that should be recognised. Mandates are dubious for anyone in my book but if we need them to get to 98% vaccinated or whatever the goal is now then sensible exemptions should exist and these guys should be exempt and free to choose. We are not a society in which that is possible though.
 
Someone with a pre-existing condition dies from Covid: “You can’t count that in the Covid figures, they had a pre existing condition. It doesn’t affect healthy people”.

Someone with unconfirmed vaccination status but confirmed pre-existing heart problems has heart problems: “Yet again the vaccine has struck down another athlete in their prime.”

At least try.
 
Yep a poll of 1300 in Victoria apparently is the majority so the 100.000 who marched in Victorian last saturday who believe mandates are garbage seems to trump that so now what??

Whose the minority again? Polls with no decent amount involved are just not believable and again it depends who are doing them as to the slant you get.

It also depends how they’re selected.

Polling 1,300 people selected at random out of the phone book will give a more accurate cross section of the population than polling 100,000 people who’ve turned up at a “freedom” rally.
 
Great, so out of 4 recent examples we've learned that 2 were unvaccinated. Now do the other 100.

If people don't want to believe there is an association between mRNA vaccines and myocarditis, pericarditis and other heart issues then thats fine, ignore the increasingly established consensus.

If people want to pretend that playing elite sport while suffering from one of these conditions isn't dangerous, thats fine too. You are wrong.

If people want to conflate the ever present background rates of cardiac events in elite athletes to explain away a significant increase in these events over the past 6 months, thats fine too.

I'll throw you guys a bone even, if it makes you feel any better, pre-covid discussion here:


Sudden deaths in footballers are more common than we previously believed and despite screening, cardiac conditions are still the leading cause of death in footballers. There are increasing calls made by some doctors and bereaved families for regular cardiac testing for footballers.

In recent times there have been a number of high profile deaths including Marc-Vivien Foe aged 28 and former England defender Ugo Ehiogu, who died, aged 44. However, possibly the most well-known case of a sudden cardiac arrest is that of Fabrice Muamba who collapsed whilst playing for Bolton Wanderers. Thankfully, due to the actions of staff and a doctor at the stadium, he managed to pull through.

But why does this happen? Sudden cardiac arrest in young athletes is mostly caused by a number of factors, with the most common being:

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) – an inherited condition where the heart muscle walls become thick. The thickened muscle can then affect the heart’s electrical system, leading to fast or irregular heartbeats (arrhythmias) which can lead to sudden death.

Coronary artery abnormalities – sometimes people are born with coronary arteries that are connected abnormally. These arteries then become compressed during exercise and do not provide proper blood flow to the heart muscle, leading to sudden death.

Undetected congenital heart disease (present at birth)"

As it happens and as I have mentioned before I happened to be in one of the categories above and gave away playing football not long after having a scary episode at training after a collapsing immediately after a repeat sprints drill. The condition didn't get picked up until years later and I had to give away lifting heavy as well and go on medication and rehabilitate my heart. I was pro vaccine for covid until I started hearing bad things about Pfizer, because myocarditis scares the sh*t out of me. If I had not of educated myself, and if I had of been first in line to get the jab, I would of put myself in harms way. As it happened I waited, and as the association became common knowledge it turned out that my Dr became aware of this too and recommended against Pfizer. So I got Az, because I'm 40 and it makes sense for me to get a little bit of protection from the worse outcomes and because I was informed enough about the clotting issues with adenovirus vaccines to be pretty confident that asking for the shot to be aspirated basically eliminates the clotting risk. If this pandemic was 20 years ago its likely I would of though myself bulletproof and if playing AFL level football like most 20 year olds I would of just done what the club Dr told me. With an undetected heart condition plus the inflamatory effect of the mRNA vaccine on the heart I could easily of wound up a statistic. It really cannot be overstated how reckless mandatory vaccination of these players is, this is very close to home for me and I feel ill for these guys having to put themselves at risk unnecessarily. You can't even talk about this stuff without an absolute onslaught of idiocy and vitriol coming at you from the peanut gallery. This toxic environment could easily cost a player their life, and odds on it will.

The players should be allowed to choose, and they should be free to discuss the risks, and they should be educated as to what the risks are. They are a special group bearing the highest risk of any in the community outside the severely immunocompromised and that should be recognised. Mandates are dubious for anyone in my book but if we need them to get to 98% vaccinated or whatever the goal is now then sensible exemptions should exist and these guys should be exempt and free to choose. We are not a society in which that is possible though.


Anyone trying to tell you the vaccine doesn't cause myocarditis is full of s**t or unlearned.

They tell people before you get the jab it can cause this and other symptoms.
 

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On the contrary, I suspect people will look back on this period and think "Holy fu**! I can't believe people had access to modern medicine and the expert advice of literally thousands of medical professionals, and still chose to believe conspiracy theories from Facebook."
Unfortunately there are a few on here who venture down that lizardy rabbity hole and i for some reason cant look away from this god awful drug inducing thread.
 
Yea, it’s called an immune system, and humans managed to get by with it for a couple million years or so.., before $pharmaceutical$ company’s turned up

Apart from stuff like the black plague and polio
 
Yea, it’s called an immune system, and humans managed to get by with it for a couple million years or so.., before $pharmaceutical$ company’s turned up
Ah yes the good old days when the average lifespan was 30years and mothers outlived 5 of their 10 children.
 
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Since 1900 the global average life expectancy has more than doubled and is now above 70 years.

Take me back to those glorious couple million years, before big pharma got their hands on me and my perfectly healthy 32 year old grandad.

We’re just lucky that our collective immune systems figured out how to double our life expectancy when it did.
 

Maybe there is a slightly increased risk with vaccination, but compared to covid infection, which we all will be exposed to in the coming months, it's * all. Get vaxxed.
 
Yea, it’s called an immune system, and humans managed to get by with it for a couple million years or so.., before $pharmaceutical$ company’s turned up

The last big pandemic, the Spanish Flu, is estimated to have killed between 17.4 million - 100 million depending on which mortality model you look at. It was estimated to have only reached less than half of the worlds countries at the time also, it didn't go to nearly every country like COVID has.

Estimated population was 1.8 Billion in 1918, so depending again on the model it wiped out between 1% - 5.4% of the population at the time. Again this was for a virus that penetrated less than half of the world.

It's mortality was highest in the 25-40 range, and due to the lack of vaccines or antibiotics available at the time they had to rely on quarantine, containment and isolation like they did with COVID-19.

Natural immunity doesn't work great when you are up against something the human body hasn't encountered before.
 
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