AFL Alienation

[Ogopogo]

Hawthorn is placeholder playing in lieu of their own actual team being there. If they aren't actual Hawthorn supporters what reasons do they have to make the trip to attend the game.

That suggests to me that they aren't as passionate about footy as many believe. if my city didn't have a club and the AFL was coming to town, I would definitely be there if I was a fan. People show their passion with their wallets.

 

[Ogopogo]

The population of Tassie is split between two major cities.

That makes it difficult to support a club, I suppose. Perhaps Gold Coast was a more calculated risk with a more concentrated and larger population. The idea was to expand the game to new markets...

 

[Kwality]

Allowed the culture to go bad under McKenna - but he had them winning so maybe don't sack him fix the culture.

I get people blaming Bluey as the coach - begs the question of the CEO Travis Auld, got the job in 2009 with the AFLs imprimatur, then in 2014 he was offered a more senior job at AFL House, a decision that suggests they believed he did a good job - I am surprised his role has not received more scrutiny.

You need to be well lead off field at thats the CEO.

To the OP be sure there is plenty of support amongst footy followers, you got a fixture from hell 2018, the worm will turn, the ease with players leave is something the AFL need to fix.

 

[Starburns_]

Yes, the Suns have made some bad decisions but, the AFL does let players dictate where they would like to play. That tilts the league in Victoria's favor. They need to adjust how trades are handled and provide the clubs with more control.

Many players don't make enough for this to be reasonable. There are other levers the AFL could pull instead, but that still doesn't address the issue of a poorly run club bleeding players.

The trades go both ways too, Neale to Brisbane and both Sydney clubs having no problems attracting players suggests that if you get the culture right, the players will follow.

 

[Heaps of fun]

You wrote all that and you don't even buy a Suns membership?

 

[Jugada]

Where is this lack of equal opportunity you speak of?

Don't blame the system because the club is run incredibly poorly

 

[Sir_Loin]

Jump on the tiggy train mate. We’ll have ya and you can continue to follow your favourite players in Tom Lynch, Dion Prestia and Josh Caddy.

 

[Eternal Schism]

As you are Canadian, not Australian you may not realize that Gold Coast is a sport graveyard in Australia. No team has ever been viable long term there, success doesn't capture the heart of the city like you believe it could. I'm sorry to tell you but it is both a Rugby League dominated area but also a tourism city with population changes depending on season. The city is full of people in Hotels, Air BnB and many moving there are people seeking a sun & surf lifestyle with plenty of hot women & men around getting drunk with a big nightlife. Most people won't attend sport the same way because of the nightlife culture. Tribalism over the code wars mean that most places do not show the Suns games, people up there take pride in not caring about the AFL - many staunch opponents. If a League club fails there, what hope does an AFL team have if the life support is ever cut off.

GWS has been much more successful at retaining players, getting in at a grassroots level and engaging the local area. They can become viable like the Swans have become - they are already ahead of the 80s Sydney for support. Brisbane has even been able to get players to come to the club, Gold Coast not so. The league itself doesn't need a player shake up, it is just that nobody wants to play in a place where nobody gives a s**t about them, no one turns up to the games, has no history, is far from the heartland, is unsuccessful, is in financial ruin without life support, etc. The Suns need a big culture shake up, it is down to the coaching and management as nobody seems to be able to pull them out of a losing culture rut.

 

[Lensen]

That suggests to me that they aren't as passionate about footy as many believe. if my city didn't have a club and the AFL was coming to town, I would definitely be there if I was a fan. People show their passion with their wallets.

How do you reckon, say, Seattle would support an NBA team playing five games a year there but with absolutely no hope the league puts a full time team there?

 

[Long Live HFC]

buyer's remorse.

there are some pretty successful clubs in the modern era which spent decades not winning flags. there are also clubs whose flags are separated by decades. richmond, one of the comp's biggest and oldest clubs spent 30 years in the wilderness until recently.

if you're not willing to suffer the teething problems inherent to a brand new side then you should have been more discerning when picking your colours.

 

[blckcaviar]

That suggests to me that they aren't as passionate about footy as many believe. if my city didn't have a club and the AFL was coming to town, I would definitely be there if I was a fan. People show their passion with their wallets.

Tasmania is mad keen on footy. I lived there for a while and behind Vic, they're the most footy loving state in Australia. They also largely don't give a shite about rugby

 

[Toump Ass]

The Suns aren't in their horrible position due to an inequitable league, they're mostly there due to bad management and some bad luck. Problem is these are only evident in hindsight, and the further along you go, the harder it is to come back from.

If there was a market for Rodney Eade being an absolute shitcampaigner I would have sold everything I owned and bet on it.

Hindsight my arse.

 

[Kwality]

Many players don't make enough for this to be reasonable. There are other levers the AFL could pull instead, but that still doesn't address the issue of a poorly run club bleeding players.

The trades go both ways too, Neale to Brisbane and both Sydney clubs having no problems attracting players suggests that if you get the culture right, the players will follow.

Levers, pray tell?

 

[Ogopogo]

You wrote all that and you don't even buy a Suns membership?

If there was some benefit to doing so, I would have. Being overseas, buying an AFL Global TV package and Suns gear from the club was a better investment.

 

[Ogopogo]

How do you reckon, say, Seattle would support an NBA team playing five games a year there but with absolutely no hope the league puts a full time team there?

Seattle loves the NBA. I reckon they would sell out.

 

[Starburns_]

If there was a market for Rodney Eade being an absolute shitcampaigner I would have sold everything I owned and bet on it.

Hindsight my arse.

That was one of many poor decisions. Ablett wasn't a captain's a-hole and as easy as it is to blame Eade, the culture had started to rot under McKenna.

Levers, pray tell?

Longer draftee contracts, earlier free agency, no salary floors. One ir a combination of these could be used to prevent the 'feeder club' mentality and hasten rebuilds.

Requires a different CBA of course, but all are more likely to appease the PA than trading without consent.

 

[youbeautfyfe]

Interesting.

When I follow NFL or NBA I don't have a connection to a club and often just watch the highly anticipated matchups. I used to follow the Tampa Bay Bucs and Orlando Magic respectively but I realised I don't really have any emotional connection with the teams. When both of them sucked, I used to be like you and wasn't really interested in the sport.

My suggestion to you is to take a step back next year and still hold a soft spot for the Suns but make an effort to watch the marquee matches instead and be a casual supporter for a few years.

We'd hate for you to leave our game due to an expansion club not getting things quite right. If they did they could have easily being in GWS' position.

 

[youbeautfyfe]

Yes, the Suns have made some bad decisions but, the AFL does let players dictate where they would like to play. That tilts the league in Victoria's favor. They need to adjust how trades are handled and provide the clubs with more control.

Also a cultural thing. Not sure how it is in Canada but majority of Australians where they are born they usually hang around there. Doesn't mean we don't move cities for a couple years but we always find ourselves in our home towns. Just so happens Victoria has a lot of grassroots footy.

 

[The 747]

That makes it difficult to support a club, I suppose. Perhaps Gold Coast was a more calculated risk with a more concentrated and larger population. The idea was to expand the game to new markets...

Yes so they could have a game on in NSW and QLD every week which is a very important factor in the TV rights.

GC now need to reset but they have some talented players and an extremely strong draft hand, plus an actual serious coach. Will take time but if they make good decisions they will be fine.

 

[Kwality]

As you are Canadian, not Australian you may not realize that Gold Coast is a sport graveyard in Australia. No team has ever been viable long term there, success doesn't capture the heart of the city like you believe it could. I'm sorry to tell you but it is both a Rugby League dominated area but also a tourism city with population changes depending on season. The city is full of people in Hotels, Air BnB and many moving there are people seeking a sun & surf lifestyle with plenty of hot women & men around getting drunk with a big nightlife. Most people won't attend sport the same way because of the nightlife culture. Tribalism over the code wars mean that most places do not show the Suns games, people up there take pride in not caring about the AFL - many staunch opponents. If a League club fails there, what hope does an AFL team have if the life support is ever cut off.

GWS has been much more successful at retaining players, getting in at a grassroots level and engaging the local area. They can become viable like the Swans have become - they are already ahead of the 80s Sydney for support. Brisbane has even been able to get players to come to the club, Gold Coast not so. The league itself doesn't need a player shake up, it is just that nobody wants to play in a place where nobody gives a s**t about them, no one turns up to the games, has no history, is far from the heartland, is unsuccessful, is in financial ruin without life support, etc. The Suns need a big culture shake up, it is down to the coaching and management as nobody seems to be able to pull them out of a losing culture rut.

Understand your view BUT I'm more a half full footy fan, the AFL have no problem FIXing the FIXture every year & I'm for it FIXing Suns games to make more use of of school holidays & long weekends to get particularly Victorians escaping Melbourne winters with suitable games to draw AFL fans, with good time slots to put , transport to Carrara, positive steps, to hell with the expense, e.g what Hawks fan could miss seeing Hodgey do it again, just a little bit slower.

The FIX is part of both the problem & solution, but the current AFL adminstration seem more interested in using it just to pump up sell outs that favour clubs from heartland States - take the blinkers off & promote more the clashes in the developing States.

 

[madmug]

That makes it difficult to support a club, I suppose. Perhaps Gold Coast was a more calculated risk with a more concentrated and larger population. The idea was to expand the game to new markets...

Anywhere without a club is a new market.

 

[kozi]

Hello all. I really discovered the game of Australian football back in 2013 and have experienced six full seasons of the AFL. It's hard to believe, 6 years of staying up late here in Canada to watch my club - the Gold Coast Suns.

Some of you may have spent five minutes to read my post back then about the joy I had in discovering the sport: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/the-afl-a-foreigners-perspective.1011811/#post-28638361

Today, I am posting for a very different reason. I believe the business of the AFL is flawed and the league is broken. What do I mean by that?

As a Suns fan, I have experienced a lot of losing the past 6 years. 38-93-1 has been the Suns' record since I started following the club back in 2013. Many nights, up at 1, 2, 3 am watching the Suns play...the house was quiet it was three hours of uninterrupted bliss each week. Yes, the losses are hard to take but it made the victories all the sweeter.

As much as I love the sport, the business side has to work to make the sport worth watching. Pro sport leagues like the EPL really don't appeal to me that much because the richest clubs compete for the championship each year while 14 or 15 others can only hope to not be relegated. The clubs are either first class or no class and most everybody knows where their club stands. I like Everton, for the simple fact they came to Edmonton to play a friendly about 10 years back, but, I know they will likely never win the league. Money rules and Everton is not one of the rich clubs.

Of course, the AFL is different. It is more like NHL hockey where everybody has a chance because of a salary cap and draft structure - that is equal opportunity and that is what every sports fan craves. My team doesn't have to win every year, they just need equal opportunity with finances and other inequalities levelled. Each club could have any player, if they were smart enough to draft or trade for them; rich clubs and poor clubs are on level ground because of the cap.

That is what I thought the AFL was - equal opportunity and one day, the Suns will get their chance at a flag. It was exciting, I was a new fan so I selected a new club to follow. I was going to grow with them and share in the hardships as well as the success. What I have discovered, six years later, is that there isn't an equal chance for success. With the current structure of the football business, the Suns will likely never have a chance to compete for a flag.

Yes, the Suns were given concessions at the start of their existence - which is only fair. When you are starting a new club from nothing, you need to toss them a bone to begin. The interesting thing with that bone is, the bone walked away! Players the Suns had drafted high, the players that were here build this club from nothing into a financially viable, competitive side, decided rather than put in the hard work of building a winner on in Queensland, they would rather take the easy route and go to an established winning club.

Jaeger O'Meara, Dion Prestia, Charlie Dixon, Adam Saad and now Tom Lynch, Steven May and more, all threw in the towel and asked to be traded. All of them refused to be adults and take on the responsibility of building a winner at a new club - they preferred to be passengers elsewhere. Granted, Gary Ablett spent many years here trying to build a winner but, eventually bailed as well.

The problem with the AFL is that the league allows the inmates to run the asylum. Some will argue that the players have the right to play where they want but, that damages the equity of the game. How can you possibly build a fan base in a new market when all of the best players decide to leave? Some are "home sick", some want to win now but really, they are abdicating their responsibility to the people of the Gold Coast. They are cowards; essentially killing football in the region.

Gold Coast is a thriving area that is a great market for football. All they need is hope, a chance, maybe the opportunity to play finals and they can capture the attention of the entire city. Hope is what we had in 2014 when the Suns finished just 8 points shy of a finals spot. The games were exciting and the future looked bright...but, key players kept asking to leave. A beautiful city, with a great opportunity in front of them and key players would rather run back to Melbourne - the path of least resistance. Why pioneer, why build something great when you could just ride as a passenger on the hard work of others?

Of course, the Suns receive high draft picks in exchange for their best players....who then turn into good players that want to leave as well. The Suns are little more than a farm club, supplying the Victorian teams. There is no hope. No draft pick compensates or satisfies...we know the future, those players will leave.

The point of footy on the Gold Coast is to tap into a new market, spread the game and to make money long-term. That is a noble cause, there is nothing wrong with those goals. Given enough time and success, footy can be a Gold Coast passion as is rugby. Many in Victoria will trash the club and call for its demise. To what gain would be that demise? How is the game of football better if there is no longer an AFL club on the Gold Coast? Is there anything at all to be gained by the folding of the Gold Coast Suns - other than to stroke the egos of some closed-minded Victorians? The truth is, there is much to be gained by the success of the Suns and nothing to be gained by the failure. The fact that people delight in the lack of success on the Gold Coast is puzzling. They must have some sick, twisted elitist attitude to think football belongs to them alone and cannot be shared.

As it stands, fans like me are at a crossroads. 6 seasons ago, I fell in love with the sport and enjoy it immensely...but, when my club has no chance of ever winning flag or making finals, it is hard to get excited to stay up very late in Canada to watch them get thumped each week. I can only imagine how hard it is for members to continue to pay good money to attend games that always end in devastating losses. The current state of the Suns is killing the fan base it was once building. I will admit, I probably only watched 2 of the last 11 Suns games this year - by fluke, one was the win over Sydney. It it just too difficult to be disappointed every week, knowing the light at the end of the tunnel is actually a train.

At this point, I am not sure I will renew my AFL Global subscription for next season. I probably won't buy more Suns merchandise and I may only follow the scores on the AFL app on my phone. I see no reason to get excited for the 2019 season...more beatings...more players wanting out...more useless draft picks that turn into players we develop for Richmond or Hawthorn.

I wish you all well next season and beyond. My six-year AFL joy ride was incredible but it appears to be winding down. Suns football used to be can't-miss TV for me, now it feels like too much effort to stay up late and watch. I will be a Suns fan for as long as they exist, it is just no longer fun to be an "active" fan.

Maybe one day the league will change and the Suns will be great. Maybe then I will be glued to AFL Global each week like the old days. It would be nice but, it seems like little more than a foolish pipe dream.

The sport is still great - one of the most entertaining on the planet. I may still watch occasionally. I am sure to take heat for my thoughts but really, equal opportunity for all clubs is what makes a sports league work. Without that opportunity, the league is failing its paying customers.

Many will see this as me whining but, it is really the AFL alienating a fan base and losing the money we spend.

End rant. I feel better now.

The hypocrisy is immense. You label the players cowards for leaving due to lack of success, yet you're doing the same thing.

 

[Farm Boy]

The problem with the AFL is that the league allows the inmates to run the asylum. Some will argue that the players have the right to play where they want but, that damages the equity of the game. How can you possibly build a fan base in a new market when all of the best players decide to leave? Some are "home sick", some want to win now but really, they are abdicating their responsibility to the people of the Gold Coast. They are cowards; essentially killing football in the region.

Players can nominate their preferred destination, but the club they wish to depart has no obligation to ensure they land there. It should go like this: Player - "I wish to go to that club"... Suns - "If that club pays overs then sure, otherwise you can stay or go to a club that will suit our terms". The Suns should have just been really difficult from the start and set a precedent. So should GWS with McCarthy, because now look at them leaking. Boy are they leaking. This is business and there is no room at all for playing nice. You don't play nice when the system is set up against you - as this one is for all clubs, as it caters to players. The bottom clubs need to play nasty. Its business.

 

[Toump Ass]

That was one of many poor decisions. Ablett wasn't a captain's a-hole and as easy as it is to blame Eade, the culture had started to rot under McKenna.

Was gonna say that too. Ablett was a super poor choice as captain, one of the most introverted footballers you could ever meet. Seemed a very strange choice from the outset.

 

[gbatman]

The system allows clubs to rebuild from the ground up but it's excruciatingly slow. A lot of resources have been taken away from bottom clubs over the last few years.

Rebuilding clubs need more resources so they can rebuild quickly. And this is a fine example, it's terrible for the game. People following sides that seem hopeless and are down the bottom for 5+ years, the club and the game will lose people.

AFL, there are 18 clubs, 18 players on the field and 22 players in the team. If you want to rebuild and even rebuild 3/4 of a team from bottom to strong, with the current system of a pick ever 18 picks and a talent pool that runs around 60is give or take every season. You do the maths. Along with player development taking between 3-5 years before players have genuine impact.

The AFL don't realise that by adding extra teams and taking away priority picks and free agency they have completely off balanced they system and yes it works fine for teams who don't bottom out but there have been a lot of sides stuck down the bottom and in the middle for a very long time and it's not just because they aren't elite at drafting and developing etc, it's a lack of opportunity to select good quality footballers.

At this present time clubs have never had less opportunity to select talent footballers if you are a bottom club and this is going unrecognised.

Rebuilds from the bottom are going to take 7 years or more. How are GCS going to handle 7 years down the bottom? It's tough for established clubs. It's terrible for the game.

At this stage I think a bottom club might look at itself and say it needs 16 really good player to be a good finals side. You can average about 3 players a year by drafting then it's another 3 years plus on top of that waiting for those players to mature. That's about 5 years to get your players plus 3 years ontop of that for development so we're already up to 8 years.

The AFL have their heads in the sand. I think we could build a system where teams can rebuild in 5 or 6 years and that would be fine.

1. Minimum player payments. After 2 years in the bottom 4, the minimum total player payments for that team goes from 95% to 88%. This opens the door for bottom clubs to clean the list out and go for mature aged talent.

2. Priority picks. They never did any harm, they were a good resource for a club who is dreadful to add more talent to it's list outside the 2-3 you get from the draft now. Bring the PPs in after pick 14. They aren't super high picks but have good trade value and should add another player to the list.

This will never happen because the top clubs have too much power over the AFL and so do the betting agencies who do not like reward for being bad. Plus who ever is in charge of the AFL don't seem to really care if clubs are stuck down there for long periods.

The system was fine, it used to work quite well, changes have been made and now it's off balanced. Quite simple very weak sides need to have the opportunity to rebuild quicker because that is what is good for the game and good for the clubs. Clubs need to be able to right their wrongs.

The OP is a fine example of the problem that is being ignored by the AFL. The denial of a priority pick to Carlton and GCS and to St Kilda who should also get one is a massive sign of just how oblivious and corrupt the current AFL management it.

Using the reason why a bottom club has become a bottom club as a reason they should not be assisted is ridiculous and relevant. Teams are going to bottom out, it happens, it always happens and if we have a system where these teams don't have the resources and ability to right their wrongs and get going withing an acceptable time frame, which we do, then we have a broken system.

It's not just a clubs fault for making poor choices, it's the AFL's fault for not allowing them to do anything about it. The AFL have to take quite a lot of responsibility for clubs who are unable to get off the bottom in an acceptable time frame.