AFL Clubs' Cultural Origins

Lionel Lyon

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Thread starter #1
The gradual de-ethnicization/Australianization of Australian soccer clubs that we have seen over the years got me wondering whether there was ever a time when ethnic/religious/class background (e.g. British, Irish, Protestant, Catholic, rich, poor etc.) influenced AFL/VFL/SANFL/WAFL etc. club allegiance. This doesn't seem to be too popular a subject nowadays and I have only ever gleaned snippets of info. here and there. So I would be interested in any relevant information you have or stories/legends you've heard about your club's early history and membership/support makeup.

L.
 

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GOALden Hawk

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#2
Well I can't confirm this for certain but I'm pretty sure the breakdown in the early days did mean some clubs had more Protestant followings (ie Melbourne, Hawthorn, a few others) whilst others had more Catholic followings (ie Collingwood North Melbourne). However I have no idea how strong this influence was on who followed a side, I think the location of where you lived in relation to a VFL club carried more weight than your religion.

I know John Kennedy used to ask new Hawthorn players if they were Catholic or Protestant and they would have competitions against one another during the season - surprisingly all players said it was great for team morale!

I'm pretty sure the 100 Years of Football book has some information on what religion the majority of early supporters were if you want to find out more.
 
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#3
Originally posted by Lionel Lyon
The gradual de-ethnicization/Australianization of Australian soccer clubs that we have seen over the years got me wondering whether there was ever a time when ethnic/religious/class background (e.g. British, Irish, Protestant, Catholic, rich, poor etc.) influenced AFL/VFL/SANFL/WAFL etc. club allegiance. This doesn't seem to be too popular a subject nowadays and I have only ever gleaned snippets of info. here and there. So I would be interested in any relevant information you have or stories/legends you've heard about your club's early history and membership/support makeup.
I don't think there has ever been a time when your background determined who you barracked for - it's more a case of handing down a religion and a club to your descendants. Those with more descendants tended to provide more supporters to particular clubs. It's fairly common knowledge that poorer/working class families tend to be larger than middle/upper class families, so clubs like Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon thrived.

That said, some clubs have traditionally been dominated by supporters of particular types:

Collingwood - Irish Catholic/Working class/Labor
Melbourne - Protestant/Middle class/Liberal
Hawthorn - Middle class
Footscray/WB - Protestant/Working class/Labor
Fitzroy - Working class/Labor

Geelong's a bit hard to categorise - they have always had a strong following amongst establisment squatter families but also a lot of Geelong 'townies' - they're a bit more cosmopolitan and hard to pin down. Liberal/National leaning.

St Kilda's traditionally had a strong Jewish background - many holocaust refugees settled in the area after WW2 and supported the club.

People will point to Carlton and John Elliott and say they're a Liberal club, but in fact this is quite a recent phenomenon. They were always a strong working-class rival to Collingwood for most of the club's existence. Essendon too has attracted working and middle class supporters.

Interesting topic! This is the stuff I'm aware of, can anyone else contribute?
 

Jamie

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#4
I know that Essendon used to take players from many of the exclusive Melbourne private schools and were a very upper middle class club. I am talking about the period from the turn of the 19th century until at least the 1950s. May have had something to do with their old home ground being at East Melbourne.
 

Bloodstained Angel

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#5
Really enjoy talking about the social history of football

Here goes

ADELAIDE

In South Australia, you are either a Port Adelaide supporter or you are not a Port Adelaide supporter. Port supporters are working class and vote for the ALP. Non supporters are usually Middle Class. Thats why the Crows are percieved (with some justification I think) as a middle class club.

BRISBANE

A hybrid with no particularly strong social roots. In the old days Fitzroy was a solidly working class / Catholic club who were VERY bitter rivals of Collingwood. The old Brisbane Bears supporter base was mostly middle class.

CARLTON

Used to be a staunchly working class club. Massive changes to the demographics of inner Melbourne after the Second World War meant that Carlton, in the 1960's, had to re-invent themselves and appeal to a new kinda supporter. Enter George Harris and the complete transformation of Carlton into a club run by elitists for a cosmopolitan supporter base.

COLLINGWOOD

An icon of working class Australia, always was, always will be. Used to be a time when there was a holy trinity of working class culture in Australia : The Catholic Church, The Australian Labour Party, and the Collingwood Football club. Thankfully this is not so strong nowadays but the old sectarian rivalries and tribalism still burn brightly at Victoria Park.

ESSENDON

Traditionally a Protestant middle class club. Gained a reputation for recruiting players from Meolbourne's elite schools and an association with Freemasonry was always a part of its earlier history. The coming of Kevin Sheedy has done much to remove some of this nonsense surrounding the club, but geez you have to wonder about people like McMahon sometimes ... :rolleyes:

FREMANTLE

See comments relating to Collingwood, but from a Western Australian perspective. Same for Port Adelaide in a South Australian context.

GEELONG

A Country club which draws its support from a wide variety of sources, from the rich graziers of the Western District to the workers at the Ford factory - Geelong can be all things to all people, maybe thats why they appear to be a bit schzophrenic on the paddock !

HAWTHORN

Solid Middle class respectability from deep in the Melbourne suburban heartland. They call themselves the 'family club' - its not an exagerration.

KANGAROOS

Demographics and football history have combined to ensure this no-frills working class club from a less than salubrious area of Melbourne stays a small club with a small supporter base. Like the factories and railway yards of North Melbourne itself, ripe for urban renewal.

MELBOURNE

A winter plaything for those bastions of the Melbourne conservative establishment - the MCC. In typically elitist fashion these people consider the boradroom is the real arena and not the football field.

PORT ADELAIDE

See comments above re : Collingwood but in a South Australian context.

RICHMOND

Often referred to as "Collingwood with a yellow streak" their origins are similar and they used to draw their support from similar communities. Club of choice for Melbournes restless and violent 'sharpies' during the 60's and 70's.

St KILDA

Easily the most diverse and colourful supporter group in the whole comp. Traditionally the club of choice for Melbourne's sizable artistic and bohemian community, they also have a huge follwing among Jews and also the easy going middle classes that perferred living down Bayside rather than the leafy boulevards of Toorak. You really have to a bit of nutter yourself if you want to be a real Saints fan.

SYDNEY

The old South Melbourne was un-ashamedly a middle calss and elitist club. Used to be what Carlton are today. Move to Sydney seems to have enhanced this reputation rather than changed it. Club is working hard to broaden its appeal outside the affluent Eastern Suburbs and North Shore of Sydney, but don't hold your breath on this one.

WEST COAST EAGLES

I honestly don't know what kind of people support the WCE, but I'm guessing the situation is similar to Adelaide, Middle class types support the Eagles/Crows whilst working class people prefer Fremantle / Port.

WESTERN BULLDOGS

Strugglers, battlers, scraggers, call 'em what you will but this club seems to reflect the western suburbs of Melbourne perfectly. The area's demographics are changing rapidly and the club seems determined to move along with the times as well.

cheers
 

Jamie

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#6
Very good bloodstained but I thought I would also add a bit.

Freo - From what I can gather Freo also has attracted a bohemian/artistic/middle-class support with the gentrification of Freo as a result of the America's Cup in 1987. But you are correct, less elitist than West Coast.

Collingwood - See Richard Stremski's, "Kill for Collingwood". A brilliant history by an American who came to live in Australia and barrack for the Woods. Was able to examine them with a little less baggage. Re the cathiolic issue. This is true but I have a feeling that their first Catholic president was in the 1970s. Could be wrong but I think that is true. Note also the shift to outer northern suburban areas as innner suburbs became less attractive post WWII.

Melbourne - Might be a bit simplistic in that summary bloodstained!:) Yes that is true but remember that that is only the "big end of town" and there are many more "normal" supporters than these characters. n The only originally non-geographically based club if that makesd any sense. Melbourne "proper" had few residents andmuch of its support was drawn from the MCC.

Hawthorn - Also a very solid and growing supporter base in the middle-outer suburbs of eastern Melbourne. Waverley has been a boon for the Hawks. Strong private school backgorund and Mornington Peninsula support.

Richmond - have a look at Janet McCalman's "Struggletown" for a very readable social history of Richmond the suburb, has many references to the Tiges.

Footscray - John Lack has written two books which are interesting - "Unleashed" and "A History of Footscray". Robert Pascoe's "A Winter game" is the best academic footy book of recent time.

Anyway there you go there's my take on it. Very hard to make definitive statements as it is such a fluid and varied area. I wrote a history essay on footy and urban communities a whiile back so this is a few bits I can think of at the moment.

I wrote a history essay on footy and urban communities a while ago and find social history and footy fascinating. There is a lot of growth in academic sports writing and some of it is pretty good.
 

Lionel Lyon

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Thread starter #7
Thanks for these great replies! Very interesting indeed. I'd heard about the Nth Melbourne connection to RCism, and some vague references to Richmond's working class origins. In SA, Central Districts' connection to the English identity is almost legendary. But that's about all I'd really heard.
 

Jamie

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#8
Central Districts look very interesting. Mark Peel has written a very good book called "Good Times, Hard Times" about Elizabeth.

I'm sounding like a librarian now...oh dear:D
 

Mr Eagle

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#10
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
WEST COAST EAGLES

I honestly don't know what kind of people support the WCE, but I'm guessing the situation is similar to Adelaide, Middle class types support the Eagles/Crows whilst working class people prefer Fremantle / Port.
West Coast began as an everyman club, playing off the "us versus Victoria" attitude quite heavily, and trying to appeal to any and all WA football supporters that it could. But when the club started to take off in the Malthouse era and membership became the only way you could get tickets, I suspect the club's visible supporter base got distinctly middle class because the only people getting to see the games were those that could cough up the dough up front. Those left out in the cold had to make do with watching the WAFL until the Dockers came along. Now that membership is on the wane, the club is trying to throw the chardonnay tag whereas before it really didn't care.
 

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dees01

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#12
Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
MELBOURNE

A winter plaything for those bastions of the Melbourne conservative establishment - the MCC. In typically elitist fashion these people consider the boradroom is the real arena and not the football field.

Don't hold back:eek: :rolleyes:
 

Roylion

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Interesting topic. World War I is an interesting era, where the conscription debate divided Protestant and Catholic along sectarian lines. The VFL it appears was a microcosm of the Australian society at that time. Five clubs, who were mainly Protestant went into recess in 1916, and for the entire war, only the working class Catholic clubs, who at that time were Collingwood, Carlton, Fitzroy and Richmond kept the competition going. The middle to upper class areas which were represented by Melbourne, South and Essendon of course supported the war effort wholeheartedly and it was the lack of manpower forced them into recess. There's one nice old story of how it was said in Protestant circles and in the Protestant dominated papers, during the war that the 1915 Carlton premiership team should receive the Iron Cross (Germany's highest decoration) instead of premiership medals. At Fitzroy, army recruiters were assaulted, if they tried to recruit players for the war effort.
 

Lionel Lyon

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Thread starter #16
Oh yeah, (I know, I'm going completely regional here) back in the 1980s there was another weird trend in SA Amateur Football League with the formation of a Greeks' Football Club (not Soccer, but Aussie Rules, mind you, and A-1 standard no less). I think they merged with Camden Pk. at some point to become Greeks-Camden. After that I don't know what happened to them. There was another club, the celebrated and controversial (long story that one :eek: ) Ovingham FC, whose playing list was about 90% Greek. Needless to say, anyone who was any good at "Ovies" soon got a visit from "the Greeks."

The lower you go down the order you start finding all sort of interesting things like Lutheran or Uniting Church teams etc., but these Greeks caught my eye (given the overwhelming Soccer stereotypes).

L.
 

Bloodstained Angel

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#17
I played a little bit of footy for Flinders University in the early 80's and I was really surprised at the number of Greeks, Italians and Serbo-Croatians that used to play as well.

They were all pretty good at the game as well and a few of them played Aussie Rules on Saturday and soccer on Sunday.

I also managed a few games for Adelaide University as well but that was very different, strictly 'Anglo-Saxon' there and even I was made to feel unwelcome because I was a New Zealander and 'it wasn't your game' - or so I was told !

cheers
 

Boomerfan99

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#18
Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on whether the supporter demographics have changed in the 16 years since this was posted?

Seems Bloodstained Angel's summation of North hasn't changed (and may never).
 
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