AFL Commission considers proposal to backdate footy records to 1870
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Adroyo
Debutant
Personally I like it. We get to go from 0 premierships to 0 premierships
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What complete and utter stupidity, stop ******* with the game! Seriously, it was a different competition, our VFA premierships are VFA premierships.
Typical Geelong trying to make themselves bigger than they are
Typical Geelong trying to make themselves bigger than they are
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
How does the AFL turn 150 next year?
There was a comp between 1870-76 and it may have continued post 1876 season but with different clubs.
There was another comp that started in 1877.
There was then another comp that started in 1897.
Only one can claim to be the AFL, there was no mergers or amalgamation of any of the 3 above.
The game was 150 years old in 2008. Some clubs have reached their 150th anniversary already and some will do so in 2020. The AFL competition wont be joining the sesquicentenary club in 2020.
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You already could. You've got 16 flags regardless. Nine of which came from the breakaway part of the league.
Jhye Clark 13
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16 flags
Adroyo
Debutant
Yeah clutching at straws to boost Geelong's standing. Whichever way you boil it down and dissect it they are different competitions, if they are added they'll be moot anyways because they're different comps.
If we're going to add the records from different comps why not all competitions? How about my junior league in the 80s, will that get a gig too?
The VFL/AFL started in 1897 and the then current VFA continued as a different competition.
This cannot be disputed, to argue otherwise would be naive or deliberately ignorant.
Nine in this comp and the rest not.
What makes it different? The pre 1897 VFA had 11 if the 12 clubs that are currently in the VFL/AFL. Geelong, Melbourne, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond, North Melbourne, St Kilda, Bulldogs, Lions, Swans. Post 1897 the VFA only had 3 of these clubs Hawthorn, North Melbourne, Richmond and the rest were current VFL reserves sides ie Port Melbourne, Williamstown etc
So abn's aside the VFA actually did become the VFL. You'd have to be a biased idiot not to see that. They're not even remotely different there was a bigger difference when they changed from the Argus system. The fact Geelong have a lot of flags form that era clearly drives your irrational views. If Geelong had no VFA flags you clearly wouldn't mind and would agree it's the same comp.
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You don't seem too intelligent. You just contradicted yourself " What are the differences between the competitions?" admitting they're separate comps. Regardless of the teams in either comps they're are different comps, it's not up for debate.
Geelong have 16 cups, 9 in their current competition, congratulations be proud. It will not change what the facts are.
You're either being naive or deliberately ignorant, which is it?
My post explains why the league will soon be backdated. They are the same league. Not in any way different as you say. It's rather sad you recognize deep down this is correct. But have to resort to not addressing my points in a childish way to sustain your biased and knowingly incorrect stance on this topic.
Jhye Clark 13
07, 09, 11, 22
- Feb 16, 2007
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Soon to be 17
Wrong.
The VFA never became the VFL, it remained the VFA, it has it's own history.
This is where the difference is in counting VFL flags, thr VFL did become the AFL and it is part of it's history.
Count them for what they are, trophys won in a different competition, much like clubs do with reserves flags, u19 flags and as they will with AFLW flags etc.
You should ask yourself why are Geelong and Port the only teams pushing to include these flags from other comps, Carlton arent interested yet they have 6 VFA flags same with Essendon, why Geelong
So now you're backtracking, go ahead delete that post, call me childish and biased. Clutch at straws all you want, it won't change the undeniable fact they are and were different competitions - it can't possibly be debated. You even said so yourself by asking "What's the difference between the comps?".
Deny the fact they are different comps if it gives you comfort, but that's where you are - in denial.
The AFL can backdate all they want, it won't change the fact that the VFA and the VFL/AFL are and were different leagues. And will therefore make those records moot to the competition.
Enjoy.
We might have 17 soon too, 16 in one comp and 1 in another.
I didn't delete any post?
But yeah I'm still waiting for you to explain how they're different leagues
Wrong.
The VFA never became the VFL, it remained the VFA, it has it's own history.
This is where the difference is in counting VFL flags, thr VFL did become the AFL and it is part of it's history.
Count them for what they are, trophys won in a different competition, much like clubs do with reserves flags, u19 flags and as they will with AFLW flags etc.
You should ask yourself why are Geelong and Port the only teams pushing to include these flags from other comps, Carlton arent interested yet they have 6 VFA flags same with Essendon, why Geelong
But besides the abn they're not different as many historians have pointed out. One league ransacked ALL the other clubs from the other and changed their banner for political/financial reasons. The clubs and competition structure appears the same. Pre 1897 VFA and the following VFL are the same content. The pre 1897 and post 1897 VFA have much fewer clubs in common. Any credible historian would see the VFA actually became the VFL and it is not a separate league other than for tax purposes. You know this to be true deep down.
Clubs aren't pushing because their real history isn't as glamorous as their current selective history. Where as Geelongs real history is more glamorous than it's selective history.
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Ridiculous, two different competitions is what it is,they are not the same if they were no one would have broken off.
Geelongs history includes 7 VFA flags, Geelongs history in this competition contains 9 flags simple.
If you want more flags on your VFL/AFL list then win them in this comp. like the other clubs with more VFL/AFL flags than Geelong have done.
Ok, how they're different leagues - my last bite on this, pointless to go on as the evidence is clear.
A/ The VFA IS a and was a separate competition.
B/ See A/
C/ We could go around and around in circles on this, but it is clearly not up for debate. Don't bother replying in argument because the facts say you can't. If you do then it is just showing your desperation.
Lets forget just who has what premierships in what era for one second. I guess you've both never heard of the Maverick paradox before.
Is a Ford Maverick also a Nissan GQ Patrol or can it not be considered a Patrol and only a Ford Maverick?
There are two common perceptions. Some peoples minds can't look past the badge, or the "badge trumps all else". End of story. The other popular answer is it is a Nissan Patrol and not a Ford at all. A Nissan chassis/cab/driveline/transmission/engine and 9999 out of 10 000 part numbers, but with a Ford badge.
To be honest we are both considered correct and it's a matter of perspective. You consider the VFL separate to the VFA because of the badge and that's a valid argument. Where I consider them the same league due to the 9999 same things besides the badge. I believe my argument on how everything is the same (clubs, players, fans, season structure). Is a lot stronger argument than "it's not the same league because they was separate (end of story)".
This is why the league will be inevitably backdated
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Thatsmyname
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They're both ****trucks
So they're not different then? That's how I see it too.
I appreciate the input and wish you luck with your $40k 1980s diesel troopy
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Brasher
Premium Platinum
The VFL was formed out of convenience by 8 clubs who left the VFA to form the VFL. Different competition.
If they are going to count VFA premierships then why stop there....most of the clubs in question predate the formation of the VFA which replaced the challenge cup era which has a more direct linage to the VFA then the VFA has to the VFL.
Yes, the winner of the Caledonian Society Challenge Cup in 1862 (decided by forfeit) should rightly count alongside a 2019 AFL Premiership.
Simple tiebreaker....if no WAG poster exists then it doesn't count.
If they are going to count VFA premierships then why stop there....most of the clubs in question predate the formation of the VFA which replaced the challenge cup era which has a more direct linage to the VFA then the VFA has to the VFL.
Yes, the winner of the Caledonian Society Challenge Cup in 1862 (decided by forfeit) should rightly count alongside a 2019 AFL Premiership.
Simple tiebreaker....if no WAG poster exists then it doesn't count.
You can alreasy celebrate the flags just not as the same, let each comp keep its history they are quite divergent and should be celebrated individually
If we allow Geelong to celebrate VFA flags as VFL/AFL flags then we must also allow the VFA only clubs to be listed on the prem ladder, which is silly as they never played in the VFL/AFL.
Geelong is the only club that I know of supporting this initiative so it should be voted down, for the ridiculous idea that it is.
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