Rumour AFL expansion

st_trav_ofWA

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yeah but i don't understand your point, how's that any different to the suggested Perth Cardinals side?

plus East Fremantle and South Fremantle hate each other. it's like trying to merge Collingwood with Carlton. So if you think Tassie won't work because South and North are too split to unite under one club, then wouldn't Freo have failed? isn't it the same reasoning?
to be fair Freo came in as a Claremont feeder club they didnt really take on the East or South Freo heritage to start with .. over time they did but first up not so much
 

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majortinkle

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yeah but i don't understand your point, how's that any different to the suggested Perth Cardinals side?

plus East Fremantle and South Fremantle hate each other. it's like trying to merge Collingwood with Carlton. So if you think Tassie won't work because South and North are too split to unite under one club, then wouldn't Freo have failed? isn't it the same reasoning?
I agree the North South split isn't an issue until you start to look at what difference it will make.

I figure the North and South will get 5 games each - they currently get 3 and 4 (from memory) - not a massive amount of difference really. They could have the 11th in New Zealand say or just have the city with 6 normal fixtures not staging finals
 

StCicatriz

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They have 2 supporting sides who have freo in their name. That’s why it helps. Where are the supporters for a new club coming from. The rest of your point has me bearing on what I’m thinking unless the 2 freo side are 200k apart.
lol what

so because they have freo in the name, despite them hating each other, it will work.... but you don't think tassie will work because they're too divided despite them sharing the same name...

west perth drew 30k to their grand final just last year. have had home ground attendances of 8k.

in 1994 in the last game of the season east fremantle and south fremantle drew ~2k attendance each. fast forward to 2018 and that attendance figure drops by only around 600-800 people. so if you think there's an issue with finding supporters from West Perth and Perth to make up the numbers now then surely that would have affected the launch of freo too. but it didn't.

people jump on new sides. they jump on a new brand. there will be people "locked out" of wce that will jump on. there will be people at freo frustrated who will feel a stronger connection to a perth side that will jump on. there will be people who feel stronger about their WAFL club who will jump on.
 

StCicatriz

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to be fair Freo came in as a Claremont feeder club they didnt really take on the East or South Freo heritage to start with .. over time they did but first up not so much
that's the greatest joke about them.

created by AFLHQ, named after a victorian term, branded as the merger between two hated rivals but end up being more about another club.

take the best of claremont but end up getting smashed by them in their first game.

they're an all round joke really. it's textbook how not to create a sporting franchise.

which just proves my point, people will jump on anything really, as long as you have people who follow the sport passionately. fremantle didn't have a highish up take because of claremont, they're a small club. nor was it due to east or south freo. it was purely due to how big AFL was here and people wanting to feel involved in a start up.
 

plugger66

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lol what

so because they have freo in the name, despite them hating each other, it will work.... but you don't think tassie will work because they're too divided despite them sharing the same name...

west perth drew 30k to their grand final just last year. have had home ground attendances of 8k.

in 1994 in the last game of the season east fremantle and south fremantle drew ~2k attendance each. fast forward to 2018 and that attendance figure drops by only around 600-800 people. so if you think there's an issue with finding supporters from West Perth and Perth to make up the numbers now then surely that would have affected the launch of freo too. but it didn't.

people jump on new sides. they jump on a new brand. there will be people "locked out" of wce that will jump on. there will be people at freo frustrated who will feel a stronger connection to a perth side that will jump on. there will be people who feel stronger about their WAFL club who will jump on.
Freo is an area probably 10k wise. Tassie is 200k apart. I’m not sure you get it. Things like where they play and where they train will be a huge issue in tassie. It was a non issue in Perth


People jump on new sides? Any proof of that especially a third side in not a huge market most of which probably have a side now.

Are you suggesting the new side will be allowed to be called west Perth. Are you sure they get 8k to games anyway. Might look that up.
 

StCicatriz

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Freo is an area probably 10k wise. Tassie is 200k apart. I’m not sure you get it. Things like where they play and where they train will be a huge issue in tassie. It was a non issue in Perth


People jump on new sides? Any proof of that especially a third side in not a huge market most of which probably have a side now.

Are you suggesting the new side will be allowed to be called west Perth. Are you sure they get 8k to games anyway. Might look that up.
wnow you're just making stuff up. it was a massive issue here. caused a bunch of arguments. over what oval would be used. freo or east freo. seriously mate. they were the two strongest rivals in footy here and WCE vs Freo aside, still are.

are you reading what i am posting. the new side would be called Perth Cardinals, which is one idea that was floated. but it could be called anything really. West Perth and Perth.

west perth home game on citizen day. 8k people. it happens. but again you're missing the point, the attendance between now and 1994, the year before freo were launched, has seen very minimal movement in attendance. people do not attend WAFL games. but they attend grand finals and watch it on tv. the WAFL clubs still have a strong alignment to community.

its amazing how "not a huge market" is only half the size of melbourne. melbourne supports how many sides? WCE is doing well. freo is doing well.
 

BrutThough

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I can't see a third team in Perth happening any time soon. The whole point of expansion is to grow your audience and bring your sport to new markets. Adding an extra team in Perth isn't going to increase viewership for the AFL since people interested in football over in Perth would already be supporting a club. Those people are already accounted for, their kids would already be playing Auskick etc.
 

plugger66

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wnow you're just making stuff up. it was a massive issue here. caused a bunch of arguments. over what oval would be used. freo or east freo. seriously mate. they were the two strongest rivals in footy here and WCE vs Freo aside, still are.

are you reading what i am posting. the new side would be called Perth Cardinals, which is one idea that was floated. but it could be called anything really. West Perth and Perth.

west perth home game on citizen day. 8k people. it happens. but again you're missing the point, the attendance between now and 1994, the year before freo were launched, has seen very minimal movement in attendance. people do not attend WAFL games. but they attend grand finals and watch it on tv. the WAFL clubs still have a strong alignment to community.

its amazing how "not a huge market" is only half the size of melbourne. melbourne supports how many sides? WCE is doing well. freo is doing well.
It’s a non issue because of how close they are. Is the freo sides like 2 different states because that’s how tassie. Obviously you haven’t been to tassie so it must be to hard to understand.

As for the other stuff well I think you are missing the point. There was always room for freo because it’s not the city of Perth. Now what is left. Not much.

And again missing the point about supporting sides and population. Firstly are you sure you want to stick with Perth having half of Melbourne population and secondly the people In Melbourne already have a team so the population doesn’t matter. I’m guessing most people in Perth have a team already. How would Melbourne go trying to get a new side. It would fail.
 

StCicatriz

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It’s a non issue because of how close they are. Is the freo sides like 2 different states because that’s how tassie. Obviously you haven’t been to tassie so it must be to hard to understand.

As for the other stuff well I think you are missing the point. There was always room for freo because it’s not the city of Perth. Now what is left. Not much.

And again missing the point about supporting sides and population. Firstly are you sure you want to stick with Perth having half of Melbourne population and secondly the people In Melbourne already have a team so the population doesn’t matter. I’m guessing most people in Perth have a team already. How would Melbourne go trying to get a new side. It would fail.
melbourne is double the size with 8 sides
perth only has 2 sides despite it being half the size

i agree a new team in melbourne would not work. its over saturated hence why clubs are selling their home games.

perth's population has grown by roughly a million since 1994. it recorded a 15% population growth in 5 years.

you nailed it with your last comment. you are right. you are guessing and clearly have no idea. there's still a strong contingent of people over here who either do not follow the sport, who do not follow an AFL side or would be easily moved to another AFL side. just like they were easily moved back in 1995. that's before you take in future population growth and generational support.
 

plugger66

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melbourne is double the size with 8 sides
perth only has 2 sides despite it being half the size

i agree a new team in melbourne would not work. its over saturated hence why clubs are selling their home games.

perth's population has grown by roughly a million since 1994. it recorded a 15% population growth in 5 years.

you nailed it with your last comment. you are right. you are guessing and clearly have no idea. there's still a strong contingent of people over here who either do not follow the sport, who do not follow an AFL side or would be easily moved to another AFL side. just like they were easily moved back in 1995. that's before you take in future population growth and generational support.
Melbourne population is 2 and half times Perth but you will say anything to win your point. Obviously gave up on the tassie part because you don’t know the dislike for each other.

You seem good on figures. Can you show me something to say there is a strong contingent who don’t follow either side. Seems made up like the population stuff. Sounds like Melbourne can support another side if we are going to use population growth ads reason. Our population growth is the biggest in the country. However we over hear don’t have a chip on our shoulder. We realise we can’t support another side. Look forward to you providing proof of numbers who are available to follow another team.
 

StCicatriz

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Melbourne population is 2 and half times Perth but you will say anything to win your point. Obviously gave up on the tassie part because you don’t know the dislike for each other.

You seem good on figures. Can you show me something to say there is a strong contingent who don’t follow either side. Seems made up like the population stuff. Sounds like Melbourne can support another side if we are going to use population growth ads reason. Our population growth is the biggest in the country. However we over hear don’t have a chip on our shoulder. We realise we can’t support another side. Look forward to you providing proof of numbers who are available to follow another team.
right. 2 and half times...

melbourne = 5 million population for 9 sides. gives you roughly 500k people per a side.
perth = 2 million population for 3 sides. gives you roughly 600k people per a side. with the two sides it's 1m a piece.

of course i don't have the numbers... it's incredibly hard to determine and i doubt they would make anything like that public. were there numbers made public prior to the fremantle ticket getting up?

you can't support another side because some of the existing sides you have are on life support. see north melbourne. sides are selling their home games to get more $$$.

freo and wce do not have that issue. there's enough space for a 3rd.
 

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BrutThough

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right. 2 and half times...

melbourne = 5 million population for 9 sides. gives you roughly 500k people per a side.
perth = 2 million population for 3 sides. gives you roughly 600k people per a side. with the two sides it's 1m a piece.

of course i don't have the numbers... it's incredibly hard to determine and i doubt they would make anything like that public. were there numbers made public prior to the fremantle ticket getting up?

you can't support another side because some of the existing sides you have are on life support. see north melbourne. sides are selling their home games to get more $$$.

freo and wce do not have that issue. there's enough space for a 3rd.
Why would all the people who currently dont follow a side in Perth jump on because the AFL introduced a third side?
 

plugger66

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right. 2 and half times...

melbourne = 5 million population for 9 sides. gives you roughly 500k people per a side.
perth = 2 million population for 3 sides. gives you roughly 600k people per a side. with the two sides it's 1m a piece.

of course i don't have the numbers... it's incredibly hard to determine and i doubt they would make anything like that public. were there numbers made public prior to the fremantle ticket getting up?

you can't support another side because some of the existing sides you have are on life support. see north melbourne. sides are selling their home games to get more $$$.

freo and wce do not have that issue. there's enough space for a 3rd.
Sounds great. Organise it.
 

plugger66

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same reason they jumped on freo when they already had a side!
You are being silly. Two different reasons for freo that don’t exist now. Freo is it’s own great footballing area and secondly it was only the second side and we know they work in footy states. There is no proof a third side does. Even you know many in the freo area said they would never follow wce. Where are these many saying they won’t follow either. It was very similar to port and Adelaide. Many port people were never following Adelaide
 

StCicatriz

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You are being silly. Two different reasons for freo that don’t exist now. Freo is it’s own great footballing area and secondly it was only the second side and we know they work in footy states. There is no proof a third side does. Even you know many in the freo area said they would never follow wce. Where are these many saying they won’t follow either. It was very similar to port and Adelaide. Many port people were never following Adelaide
flipped both ways actually. many who followed wce would never follow freo. due the existing east freo and south freo players they had, plus they were rusted on come 1992 and 1994. it became the adopted state squad for many.

there also was a contingent of people in the 80s and 90s who would never follow the AFL they saw it as a victorian comp. that mentality has been eroded now. i mean look at the growth in freo membership. its gone from 18k members to now 55k.

but the one thing that overrides all this stuff. is the involvement in a new side. its why you have people here who follow GC and GWS. despite having no connection to either side, what so ever.

i'm not saying they'll be a 50k membership side nor the size of fremantle or wce, but they'll have a good start, better than GWS and GC combined. better than tassie. it'll make money from day one, due to the corporate support they will get from here.

we have never had a 3rd side introduced. so we do not know. doesn't mean it won't work.

plus there's tv ratings and gate reasons why it makes sense.
 

plugger66

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Why not an NT side? They would be pretty popular. Lots of NT folks love footy and the Tiwis and other near by places love their AFL too. The weather is probably the only issue.
It would be impossible with the weather and there would be no money in it. Not a hope for those 2 reasons
 

George

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If you are going to have three sides in WA the logical next move would be to have a Perth team. If they merge Perth with West Perth it could be the Perth Falcons so they share in the name.

No idea on how a third WA side would work in an AFL system.

Won't probably happen in my lifetime but ideally what I'd like is to have two teams in each state & territory, every team playing each other once and then a finals series. AFL was founded on the back of the VFL competition and wouldn't be here today without the Victorian sides so it'd be disrespectful to relocate or disband them I reckon.
 

Yawkey way

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There’s no case for Tasmania based on population growth.

I can’t see the AFL expanding anytime soon despite the projected population growth. Most of the growth is on the SE seaboard with only Melbourne truly being a football state it would need some strong growth in the game in Sydney and Brisbane to justify any expansion.

Expansion in the population won’t necessarily equate to the same growth in support for the AFL. I expect most clubs would be against expansion at this stage. The AFL would be looking for growth in the game before making any decisions plus we have a changing landscape that will impact the next rights deal imo.

Tasmania and WA will probably push for expansion but I don’t see it in the next 5-10 years.
 
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D2D3

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Sounds good to me. Everyone plays each other once per season.
Tassie could support a team.
WA could support a 3rd team.

The only issue for me is quality, but I think that would take care of itself over time. Also, gives more opportunity to high level state league players, which I’m all for.
In theory it sounds nice.

But let’s be real.

We would be in serious trouble if the bring in expansion clubs any time soon.
 

st_trav_ofWA

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that's the greatest joke about them.

created by AFLHQ, named after a victorian term, branded as the merger between two hated rivals but end up being more about another club.

take the best of claremont but end up getting smashed by them in their first game.

they're an all round joke really. it's textbook how not to create a sporting franchise.

which just proves my point, people will jump on anything really, as long as you have people who follow the sport passionately. fremantle didn't have a highish up take because of claremont, they're a small club. nor was it due to east or south freo. it was purely due to how big AFL was here and people wanting to feel involved in a start up.
im ashamed to say i had a foundation Freo membership (my old man got them given to us through work contacts) the whole freo thing was initially poorly thought out and then poorly implemented .. they did more bad than good to unite a Fremantle , the fact Claremont had won the WAFL flag that year meant they though copying the claremont model would work Neesham was a poor choice of first coach their marquee player targets were pie in the sky longshots.
the fact the WCE took home the flag in 94 hurt them big time as they were up against it to steal WCE members.. to thir credit though they did grow a core of diehards early on and the way they marketed to kids and the work they did around getting out into the community at that time was really strong.. i remember getting given 30 (yep that right) free tickets for the first Freo home game as a kid so they did a lot to get people to buy in for their club .. problem was they were ****
 

st_trav_ofWA

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It’s a non issue because of how close they are. Is the freo sides like 2 different states because that’s how tassie. Obviously you haven’t been to tassie so it must be to hard to understand.

As for the other stuff well I think you are missing the point. There was always room for freo because it’s not the city of Perth. Now what is left. Not much.

And again missing the point about supporting sides and population. Firstly are you sure you want to stick with Perth having half of Melbourne population and secondly the people In Melbourne already have a team so the population doesn’t matter. I’m guessing most people in Perth have a team already. How would Melbourne go trying to get a new side. It would fail.
plugger the thing you are missing here is the fact there is a wait list to become an eagles member... we are talking about 5k of people who pay the WCE a fee every year just to sit on a list to maybe get given membership.. yes perth footy fans would already have a club they support but the fact is for WCE supporters the vast majority of them are looking at a 3year wait to be members, the rivaly with Freo would see next to none of these WCE supporters buying a Freo membership but with a third club they certainly would consider it .. the third club would have zero chance stealing established members off the two clubs but the supporters who are not members and are likely to never be members who have an emotional conection to the WAFL club certainly would jump on ...
see Perth is footy starved as a state we get one game a week to see live and that one game is either sold out or you need a second mortage to get a ticket a third team brings more people to the game it opens up access to the game to many more people ...
heck i still know freo members who are members base on the fact that they will get to go to the footy each week .. its not like Melbourne where if you feel like going to an AFL game you just rock up and buy a ticket ...
 

plugger66

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plugger the thing you are missing here is the fact there is a wait list to become an eagles member... we are talking about 5k of people who pay the WCE a fee every year just to sit on a list to maybe get given membership.. yes perth footy fans would already have a club they support but the fact is for WCE supporters the vast majority of them are looking at a 3year wait to be members, the rivaly with Freo would see next to none of these WCE supporters buying a Freo membership but with a third club they certainly would consider it .. the third club would have zero chance stealing established members off the two clubs but the supporters who are not members and are likely to never be members who have an emotional conection to the WAFL club certainly would jump on ...
see Perth is footy starved as a state we get one game a week to see live and that one game is either sold out or you need a second mortage to get a ticket a third team brings more people to the game it opens up access to the game to many more people ...
heck i still know freo members who are members base on the fact that they will get to go to the footy each week .. its not like Melbourne where if you feel like going to an AFL game you just rock up and buy a ticket ...
Not doubting that but if they are true supporters they won’t just jump on another side. Anyway doesn’t matter because it won’t happen for a long time. Neither of us will care by then. Well I certainly won’t.
 
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