Rumour AFL expansion

[StCicatriz]

access to games ...

did you hear those stories of WCE supporters buying Freo memberships just so they could watch live footy every weekend. they'd literally hand over 1-2k for a season membership with the dockers because they wouldn't get a season membership with the eagles.

it'd drive freo members nuts, because they'd have wce supporters rock up every week, sitting next to them, decked out in eagles gear, cheering on the opposition. every god damn weekend for years, until they moved to Perth stadium.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Not doubting that but if they are true supporters they won’t just jump on another side. Anyway doesn’t matter because it won’t happen for a long time. Neither of us will care by then. Well I certainly won’t.

but we are not talking "real supporters" we are talking about the ability of a thrid team to draw a crown and members in WA .. as StC and i are telling you the third team here wouldnt have a problem with that at all.. in fact the sad case of it is the third WA club would prob get more members than we do, they would prob get bigger sponsors than we do as well ...
i agree its just a rumour and realistically it could be killed by the WCE very early on in the planning but to say it cant happen is actually wrong.. it certainly could happen

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

did you hear those stories of WCE supporters buying Freo memberships just so they could watch live footy every weekend. they'd literally hand over 1-2k for a season membership with the dockers because they wouldn't get a season membership with the eagles.

it'd drive freo members nuts, because they'd have wce supporters rock up every week, sitting next to them, decked out in eagles gear, cheering on the opposition. every god damn weekend for years, until they moved to Perth stadium.

it still happens now ... i still know Freo members who go to games who are WCE supporters the reason being its the easier and cheaper option .. i know a big company who purchased a Dockers corporate box because it was cheaper than the WCE one and this companies owner is very much intrenched as a WCE member and supporter

 

[plugger66]

but we are not talking "real supporters" we are talking about the ability of a thrid team to draw a crown and members in WA .. as StC and i are telling you the third team here wouldnt have a problem with that at all.. in fact the sad case of it is the third WA club would prob get more members than we do, they would prob get bigger sponsors than we do as well ...
i agree its just a rumour and realistically it could be killed by the WCE very early on in the planning but to say it cant happen is actually wrong.. it certainly could happen

Of course you can think of reasons that will get you members but that doesn’t mean big numbers. No idea why people who are on a list at wce aren’t real supporters. Didn’t say it can’t happen. Said it won’t happen. To me that suggests it’s an opinion. Anyway again if it happens it will be years off. Hopefully never happens. Doesnt help us at all

 

[George]

plugger the thing you are missing here is the fact there is a wait list to become an eagles member... we are talking about 5k of people who pay the WCE a fee every year just to sit on a list to maybe get given membership.. yes perth footy fans would already have a club they support but the fact is for WCE supporters the vast majority of them are looking at a 3year wait to be members, the rivaly with Freo would see next to none of these WCE supporters buying a Freo membership but with a third club they certainly would consider it .. the third club would have zero chance stealing established members off the two clubs but the supporters who are not members and are likely to never be members who have an emotional conection to the WAFL club certainly would jump on ...
see Perth is footy starved as a state we get one game a week to see live and that one game is either sold out or you need a second mortage to get a ticket a third team brings more people to the game it opens up access to the game to many more people ...
heck i still know freo members who are members base on the fact that they will get to go to the footy each week .. its not like Melbourne where if you feel like going to an AFL game you just rock up and buy a ticket ...

You or StCicatriz might be able to answer this but why is there a waiting list of 5,000 people when the Eagles have around 60,000 members.

Richmond has 100,000 and there's no waiting list there.

Is it a WA thing?

 

[StCicatriz]

You or StCicatriz might be able to answer this but why is there a waiting list of 5,000 people when the Eagles have around 60,000 members.

Richmond has 100,000 and there's no waiting list there.

Is it a WA thing?

we don't have a 100k stadium :-(

everyone over here wanted the new perth stadium to be built for 80k people and expandable to 100k. WCE lobbied extremely hard for this not to be the case as St Trav said, because then their demand wouldn't out number the supply, which is why they make so much money.

the 5k wait lists gives people access to re-sell tickets and GA, but not guaranteed.

 

[StCicatriz]

Of course you can think of reasons that will get you members but that doesn’t mean big numbers. No idea why people who are on a list at wce aren’t real supporters. Didn’t say it can’t happen. Said it won’t happen. To me that suggests it’s an opinion. Anyway again if it happens it will be years off. Hopefully never happens. Doesnt help us at all

media reports are it's planned for 2026 for the tassie side. it's been mentioned in passing in reports here that a 3rd WA side is considered based on a new tassie side coming into the comp.

longer term plan is a 3rd SA side which means another side coming into the comp to go with it.

there has been public talk by the AFL that even more sides are being considered.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

it still happens now ... i still know Freo members who go to games who are WCE supporters the reason being its the easier and cheaper option .. i know a big company who purchased a Dockers corporate box because it was cheaper than the WCE one and this companies owner is very much intrenched as a WCE member and supporter

Have a mate who is a Richmond supporter, but he's livinig in Brisbane.
He flies down for a couple of games each year, but still enjoys getting out to watch plenty of Lions games, because he can.

 

[plugger66]

media reports are it's planned for 2026 for the tassie side. it's been mentioned in passing in reports here that a 3rd WA side is considered based on a new tassie side coming into the comp.

longer term plan is a 3rd SA side which means another side coming into the comp to go with it.

there has been public talk by the AFL that even more sides are being considered.

Ok. I will wait for the afl.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Why not an NT side? They would be pretty popular. Lots of NT folks love footy and the Tiwis and other near by places love their AFL too. The weather is probably the only issue.

Darwin is smaller than Cairns ( which has a healthy AFL following btw ).

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So if they are bringing in another team in Tassie, its unlikely to improve on the existing clubs if you moved them there.
The people joining /going from Tassie are unlikely to be more than the worst Victorian clubs or Gold Coast.

So then we need another team to match it , ( i don't think anyone would like the alternative of having only 18 games a year with a bye for 1 team each week over 19 rounds ).

Footy in Melbourne is not unhealthy but its not very feasible to introduce a new team. Then there would be 10 teams to squash into the 2 and a half ovals.
Not that its a great idea anywhere but if you had to do it , Perth is the place to do it.

Go Jooooooondalup.

Australians love their overcrowded cities.

Australia has 2 cities with more than 4 million. Germany have 1 . USA has 12.
( now comparing australian city area's with overseas actual city population ).
Australia has 3 cities between 1 and 4 million. Germany has 4 , USA have 9.
Australia have 1 city 500K to a mill. Germany has 10. USA have 26.
Australia have 6 cities 250K-500K. Germany have 13. USA have 51.
Australia have 6 cities 100K -250K Germany have at least 50. USA have at least 227.

The success of the cats seems to suggest a city with 260 000 does ok with a footy team ( though they get to have away crowds from Melbourne in good numbers ).
Geelong is our 9th biggest city, ahead of Hobart (200 000) , Townsville (180 000) , Cairns ( 150 000) and Toowoomba , and Darwin ( 132 000)

A combined Ballarat/Bendigo team is probably more feasible than Darwin.

https://blog.id.com.au/2018/populat...towns-in-australia-by-population-2018-update/

I can only speak for myself , but the size of Melbourne and the traffic, that makes every Journey feel like a trip on the orient express, makes me feel pretty happy about staying home and watching the footy on TV a lot of the time.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Of course you can think of reasons that will get you members but that doesn’t mean big numbers. No idea why people who are on a list at wce aren’t real supporters. Didn’t say it can’t happen. Said it won’t happen. To me that suggests it’s an opinion. Anyway again if it happens it will be years off. Hopefully never happens. Doesnt help us at all

again missed the point ... its not the people on the waiting list who will join the third team those people are committed to the WCE to the point they give up money just to sit on a list .. the fans that the third club will target are the fans who support the WCE but who dont see the value in sitting on a wait list, the guys who have followed the falcons or the Perth in the WAFL for generations who will see the option of going to the footy every second week worth jumping on the team they have connection to ... WCE have heaps of die hard fans but they have a even larger fan base who support them because they feel somewhat obliged to being west australian a third team that has links to their WAFL club would certainly entice ... i know a few supporters over here in perth who are supporters of Melbourne teams and supporters of the falcons and the demons in the WAFL would prob jump to buy a membership of the third team ...
i know you will fight the issue til you wear me down and i cant be bothered responding anymore but trust me StC and myself and the other WA posters understand the WA footy follower much better than you do

 

[plugger66]

again missed the point ... its not the people on the waiting list who will join the third team those people are committed to the WCE to the point they give up money just to sit on a list .. the fans that the third club will target are the fans who support the WCE but who dont see the value in sitting on a wait list, the guys who have followed the falcons or the Perth in the WAFL for generations who will see the option of going to the footy every second week worth jumping on the team they have connection to ... WCE have heaps of die hard fans but they have a even larger fan base who support them because they feel somewhat obliged to being west australian a third team that has links to their WAFL club would certainly entice ... i know a few supporters over here in perth who are supporters of Melbourne teams and supporters of the falcons and the demons in the WAFL would prob jump to buy a membership of the third team ...
i know you will fight the issue til you wear me down and i cant be bothered responding anymore but trust me StC and myself and the other WA posters understand the WA footy follower much better than you do

I think you miss the point. In the home of afl footy we don’t just swap clubs because we can’t get in. I love you wa guys. You know so much about Perth footy and fair enough but you well maybe not you but de facto also know more about Victorian footy than people who live in Victoria.

All you have convinced of is people will follow the new club. I think I know that. No one has convinced me of big numbers.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

You or StCicatriz might be able to answer this but why is there a waiting list of 5,000 people when the Eagles have around 60,000 members.

Richmond has 100,000 and there's no waiting list there.

Is it a WA thing?

its a government thing ... the condition of the stadium being built was that a larger % of the stadium seating be made available to the general public for purchase .. WCE were able to put a whole heap of members on the list as full members with the move to Optus but with the public reserve of tickets they still have a need for a wait list ...
the thing that gets me and my fellow presidents of the interstate supporter groups up in arms is that the move to optus didnt improve our ticket allocation by a single seat so for a WA member of the saints if you take away the want to support the club and help the club financially its better value to not be a member and just buy the genreral public tickets then it is to be a member ... i know a family of four who used the logic that paying $110 for an interstate membership per person and then having to spend $50 per person on a ticket to the game in perth if you dont get one of the 300 tickets we have allocated to us its not worth being a member.. coupled with the outlandish pricing the WCE set for their home game tickets all us WA groups are fighting to keep members as its suddenly very expensive to be a member to see one game

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I think you miss the point. In the home of afl footy we don’t just swap clubs because we can’t get in. I love you wa guys. You know so much about Perth footy and fair enough but you well maybe not you but de facto also know more about Victorian footy than people who live in Victoria.

All you have convinced of is people will follow the new club. I think I know that. No one has convinced me of big numbers.

when have i said i know more about victorian footy ? in melbourne of course you dont change club cause you cant get in ... because there is so much footy and the stadium sizes and the dilution of supporteers you can get in EVERY SINGLE TIME ... you litterally have no idea of how many people would rock up to the footy in WA if there was anothe AFL game on here ... heck we would almost fill Optus stadium if there was a Hawthorn vs Richmond game here in perth.. you victorian mob are spoilt with the ability to go to any game you feel like at any time
i know stuff bout my club and what happens in my club but as for what happens in the VFL i got no idea as for what the supporter trends are of VFL teams i got no idea but in WA you have the team you support in the AFL and then equally important is the team you support in the WAFL .. who you support in the AFL has no impact in who you support in the WAFL and the WAFL support runs deep and runs loyal in many many WA footy fans.. this isnt reflected in the crowd attendances for the WAFL outside of the g/f but it is a stronger deeper connection than the AFL club for many many people

 

[plugger66]

when have i said i know more about victorian footy ?
i know stuff bout my club and what happens in my club but as for what happens in the VFL i got no idea as for what the supporter trends are of VFL teams i got no idea but in WA you have the team you support in the AFL and then equally important is the team you support in the WAFL .. who you support in the AFL has no impact in who you support in the WAFL and the WAFL support runs deep and runs loyal in many many WA footy fans.. this isnt reflected in the crowd attendances for the WAFL outside of the g/f but it is a stronger deeper connection than the AFL club for many many people

I said defacto.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Ffs its like being on ss

Great work cic and trav, i learnt a bit about wa footy
66 do u have to argue about bloody everything

 

[plugger66]

Ffs its like being on ss

Great work cic and trav, i learnt a bit about wa footy
66 do u have to argue about bloody everything

Yes when I think it’s a crap idea. Keep me on ignore. It was so much better. God help me

 

[George]

we don't have a 100k stadium :-(

everyone over here wanted the new perth stadium to be built for 80k people and expandable to 100k. WCE lobbied extremely hard for this not to be the case as St Trav said, because then their demand wouldn't out number the supply, which is why they make so much money.

the 5k wait lists gives people access to re-sell tickets and GA, but not guaranteed.

its a government thing ... the condition of the stadium being built was that a larger % of the stadium seating be made available to the general public for purchase .. WCE were able to put a whole heap of members on the list as full members with the move to Optus but with the public reserve of tickets they still have a need for a wait list ...
the thing that gets me and my fellow presidents of the interstate supporter groups up in arms is that the move to optus didnt improve our ticket allocation by a single seat so for a WA member of the saints if you take away the want to support the club and help the club financially its better value to not be a member and just buy the genreral public tickets then it is to be a member ... i know a family of four who used the logic that paying $110 for an interstate membership per person and then having to spend $50 per person on a ticket to the game in perth if you dont get one of the 300 tickets we have allocated to us its not worth being a member.. coupled with the outlandish pricing the WCE set for their home game tickets all us WA groups are fighting to keep members as its suddenly very expensive to be a member to see one game

I still don't understand why it's capped due to the stadium capacity. It doesn't happen anywhere else with any other club. MCG capacity is 100,024 but Richmond's membership tally is at 101,951.

Wouldn't it make more sense financially for the Eagles to let anyone and everyone become a member and have a "first in best dressed" policy for all home games? It's not like they've sold out all their home games this year either.

If it's a government/WA football rule then fine but otherwise it just seems odd.

 

[Diehard Saint]

plugger the thing you are missing here is the fact there is a wait list to become an eagles member... we are talking about 5k of people who pay the WCE a fee every year just to sit on a list to maybe get given membership.. yes perth footy fans would already have a club they support but the fact is for WCE supporters the vast majority of them are looking at a 3year wait to be members, the rivaly with Freo would see next to none of these WCE supporters buying a Freo membership but with a third club they certainly would consider it .. the third club would have zero chance stealing established members off the two clubs but the supporters who are not members and are likely to never be members who have an emotional conection to the WAFL club certainly would jump on ...
see Perth is footy starved as a state we get one game a week to see live and that one game is either sold out or you need a second mortage to get a ticket a third team brings more people to the game it opens up access to the game to many more people ...
heck i still know freo members who are members base on the fact that they will get to go to the footy each week .. its not like Melbourne where if you feel like going to an AFL game you just rock up and buy a ticket ...

I watched last year’s GF in a Dunsborough pub surrounded by WCE supporters and members who had never been to a live game!
I just can’t imagine what that would be like.

I think there’d be plenty of support to get in on the ground floor of a new club and actually get seats.

 

[majortinkle]

The really big question on this has just been completely missed as far as I can see.

What colours are the new teams going to wear?

 

[StCicatriz]

I still don't understand why it's capped due to the stadium capacity. It doesn't happen anywhere else with any other club. MCG capacity is 100,024 but Richmond's membership tally is at 101,951.

Wouldn't it make more sense financially for the Eagles to let anyone and everyone become a member and have a "first in best dressed" policy for all home games? It's not like they've sold out all their home games this year either.

If it's a government/WA football rule then fine but otherwise it just seems odd.

Problem is the high amount of reserved seats. People pay good money for them. Due to the wait list they don't let go of them. So I know people who don't actually attend games anymore but still pay for their reserved seat because if they stop paying they go back on the wait list. So they'll let friends and family use it or just buy it and not go at all.

Put it this way say st Kilda had a 10k wait list to get a season reserved seat. would you let it lapse? After it took you 5 years on a wait list to get it?

You'd have to look at the break down on the 100k members. Are they digital only. Interstate. 3 game members. Etc. Remembering most of those would be garunteed to see their side if they wanted too.

You sign up 100k WCE supporters you're gonna have some pretty unhappy customers because the stadium only has 55k seats. In fact it'd be a law suit waiting to happen unless you tell them it's non ticketed. Who'd want that?

Look at the average attendance. 55k for the tigers in an ~80k stadium (MCC taken out). 45k for wce in a 55k stadium. From memory WCE has access to around 45k tickets plus 10k on sale to their wait list (they have access to tickets made available if members resell + any tickets left over like GA and tourism). Which mirrors their membership. Its basically at capacity.

 

[George]

Problem is the high amount of reserved seats. People pay good money for them. Due to the wait list they don't let go of them. So I know people who don't actually attend games anymore but still pay for their reserved seat because if they stop paying they go back on the wait list. So they'll let friends and family use it or just buy it and not go at all.

Put it this way say st Kilda had a 10k wait list to get a season reserved seat. would you let it lapse? After it took you 5 years on a wait list to get it?

You'd have to look at the break down on the 100k members. Are they digital only. Interstate. 3 game members. Etc. Remembering most of those would be garunteed to see their side if they wanted too.

You sign up 100k WCE supporters you're gonna have some pretty unhappy customers because the stadium only has 55k seats. In fact it'd be a law suit waiting to happen unless you tell them it's non ticketed. Who'd want that?

Look at the average attendance. 55k for the tigers in an ~80k stadium (MCC taken out). 45k for wce in a 55k stadium. From memory WCE has access to around 45k tickets plus 10k on sale to their wait list (they have access to tickets made available if members resell + any tickets left over like GA and tourism). Which mirrors their membership. Its basically at capacity.

Ah I see what you mean. Yes you are right it'd be easier to get to Richmond games (17 or so games in Victoria for each Victorian club) and obviously being interstate you realistically only get access to Eagles home games. Just seems different that's all. Are you saying all membership types are sold out? Or only reserved/GA memberships? You'd think people could sign on as a 3 game member or digital membership or something - the point of my argument is I have no clue why it's a good thing to cap membership. Unless of course I am wrong and they've only capped the memberships that give access to games.

 

[mightymalaka]

My take on why i'm not in favour of a 3rd WA team is a purely selfish one for the team we are meant to support on this board!
The St Kilda FC! We apparently have a huge supporter base in WA as Trav and St C have mentioned and contributed to! ( the support is appreciated )

A club like ours cannot afford to lose more fans of our club no matter where they live! As the WA lads have pointed out previously we lost plenty of
Saints support to the West Coast Eagles initially! And i'm sure some again when Freo entered! With a third one our passionate support in WA would
Be further eroded again! Not to mention the more teams the harder for us to finally get what we all crave!

Admitting straight up this is a very blinkered and self serving view for the StK footy club! But i make no apologies, we have already lost
Enough support throughout the country and personally love that when we play in WA you can really hear the WA contingent get behind us!
I know this is probably an unsatisfactory view for football lovers in the west, but thanks to the fine work people like Trav do, we are still relevant and loved in a true
footy state, that is normally parochial and as far away as WA! Ultimately no matter where you live, overseas included we are all Sainters!

I know i'm very proud of my love and support to a little club called Manchester United on the other side of the world!
Can assure all that i feel in no way any less a passionate and worthy Red Devil because i live in Australia than those who reside in Manchester itself!
So the romantic in me wants it to stay that way for our one love that we all have here in the Red White and Black!
God knows the Saints have and will give folks over there and every where for that matter plenty of reasons to look elsewhere
For a shiny new toy, so i'd rather they are not given further temptations to do so!

I have always been mighty proud of how our dysfunctional but charismatic club is so loved throughout all of Australia and world wide!

 

[StCicatriz]

Ah I see what you mean. Yes you are right it'd be easier to get to Richmond games (17 or so games in Victoria for each Victorian club) and obviously being interstate you realistically only get access to Eagles home games. Just seems different that's all. Are you saying all membership types are sold out? Or only reserved/GA memberships? You'd think people could sign on as a 3 game member or digital membership or something - the point of my argument is I have no clue why it's a good thing to cap membership. Unless of course I am wrong and they've only capped the memberships that give access to games.

As far as I'm aware 3 game membership is sold out at WCE. Their membership is actually 80k. So their non ticketed membership must he very high. Including their wait list:
https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-c...-wings-members-to-hang-in-there-ng-b88773181z

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09...seats-season-tickets-hard-to-come-by/10282296

There are reports of a wait list of 15 years and over 20k.