Rumour AFL expansion

[st_trav_ofWA]

I still don't understand why it's capped due to the stadium capacity. It doesn't happen anywhere else with any other club. MCG capacity is 100,024 but Richmond's membership tally is at 101,951.

Wouldn't it make more sense financially for the Eagles to let anyone and everyone become a member and have a "first in best dressed" policy for all home games? It's not like they've sold out all their home games this year either.

If it's a government/WA football rule then fine but otherwise it just seems odd.

its linked to the stadium seating the idea is based on as a member you get to go to every home game.. what the WCE members are taking advantage of is the resale of their membership tickets so if a member cant make it to the game they can put their ticket up for resale at what ever price they want so what you are finding more and more are way over the top resale tickets entering the market .. i know of people who sell their derby tickets on resale for the cost of their yearly membership .. so they miss one game and get everyother game the next year free .. for the WCE i think it is a marketing stratigy as well to keep membership as a high status item they have done the sums and it works out better for them financially to have 60k members and a premium on that then it is to have 100k members .. the thing that seperates the WCE from the victorian clubs is the Victorian clubs use membership numbers to show sponsors potential reach of their sponsorship the WCE dont need to do that as they have an entire state as their "reach" the victorian clubs need to show a sponsor that their brand will be exposed on TV for their money and from that the AFL fixturing is huge for them .. in WA its not a factor because the government dictate every WCE and Freo game must be shown free to air in WA every week.. the Way WA footy is set up it makes it very easy for the WA clubs to make money regardless of how they play

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

My take on why i'm not in favour of a 3rd WA team is a purely selfish one for the team we are meant to support on this board!
The St Kilda FC! We apparently have a huge supporter base in WA as Trav and St C have mentioned and contributed to! ( the support is appreciated )

A club like ours cannot afford to lose more fans of our club no matter where they live! As the WA lads have pointed out previously we lost plenty of
Saints support to the West Coast Eagles initially! And i'm sure some again when Freo entered! With a third one our passionate support in WA would
Be further eroded again! Not to mention the more teams the harder for us to finally get what we all crave!

Admitting straight up this is a very blinkered and self serving view for the StK footy club! But i make no apologies, we have already lost
Enough support throughout the country and personally love that when we play in WA you can really hear the WA contingent get behind us!
I know this is probably an unsatisfactory view for football lovers in the west, but thanks to the fine work people like Trav do, we are still relevant and loved in a true
footy state, that is normally parochial and as far away as WA! Ultimately no matter where you live, overseas included we are all Sainters!

I know i'm very proud of my love and support to a little club called Manchester United on the other side of the world!
Can assure all that i feel in no way any less a passionate and worthy Red Devil because i live in Australia than those who reside in Manchester itself!
So the romantic in me wants it to stay that way for our one love that we all have here in the Red White and Black!
God knows the Saints have and will give folks over there and every where for that matter plenty of reasons to look elsewhere
For a shiny new toy, so i'd rather they are not given further temptations to do so!

I have always been mighty proud of how our dysfunctional but charismatic club is so loved throughout all of Australia and world wide!

we would be ok ... most of our WA mob are rusted on supporters ... the greater threat and the treat all us interstate supporter groups are fearful of is around ticketing for the games when our teams come to Perth with 1400 members in WA and 300 tickets allocated to the WA members of our club thats a lot of people who wont get a ticket through the club, for lots of our members they are happy to pay their membership dollars for the one game in Perth but when the reality of paying a membership and then having to need to pay for a game ticket when the team come to Perth and with that game ticket as high as $99 per ticket for a third teir wing seat members question if its worth being a member.. our members here are passionate Saints people but at the same time things are getting tight financially for lots of members so if push comes to shove thats the first thing to go ... the kick in the guts is theres not much the club can do about it as its dictated by the home teams .. even the AFL can only give "suggestions" with regards to ticketing

 

[StCicatriz]

we would be ok ... most of our WA mob are rusted on supporters ... the greater threat and the treat all us interstate supporter groups are fearful of is around ticketing for the games when our teams come to Perth with 1400 members in WA and 300 tickets allocated to the WA members of our club thats a lot of people who wont get a ticket through the club, for lots of our members they are happy to pay their membership dollars for the one game in Perth but when the reality of paying a membership and then having to need to pay for a game ticket when the team come to Perth and with that game ticket as high as $99 per ticket for a third teir wing seat members question if its worth being a member.. our members here are passionate Saints people but at the same time things are getting tight financially for lots of members so if push comes to shove thats the first thing to go ... the kick in the guts is theres not much the club can do about it as its dictated by the home teams .. even the AFL can only give "suggestions" with regards to ticketing

as long as we clear our debt and kill the need to claim the largest AFL distribution out of the vic clubs we should be fine.

the risk is if we don't do that, the AFL will have leverage to do what ever they like with us.

this isn't something you can do overnight. its a slow process. but its something we've known about for decades, yet we haven't achieved it.

we also need to find revenue streams outside of footy. a bunch of clubs have invested in everything from gyms to day cares. we need to find an angle here. i have no problem with debt if its from investment. i have a problem with debt if its used for operational expenditure, which is what we've pretty much used it on. bar the moorabbin digs, but thats not the majority of it. we are not solely to blame for this. the reality is it's AFL debt due to how bad the stadia deal was and the insufficient funding provided to the clubs, so the AFL could bank role its self.

change is coming. we need to be prepared for it.

there will be new sides. expansion may occur beyond 2 sides. there's downward pressure on tv rights (see foxtels market reports). there will be a new AFL CEO. the current chairman comes from a big club and big business. the next CEO will come from a big club. the big clubs have had their way watering down the onfield equalisation measures. they may decide propping up the smaller clubs isn't in their interest or at the very least may make it harder for us.

i think the idea we will continue to get the current AFL distro, which is above and beyond the other vic clubs, is unlikely. i think they will start to bring it back in line and it could be pretty sharp after 2020.

 

[plugger66]

as long as we clear our debt and kill the need to claim the largest AFL distribution out of the vic clubs we should be fine.

the risk is if we don't do that, the AFL will have leverage to do what ever they like with us.

this isn't something you can do overnight. its a slow process.

we also need to find revenue streams outside of footy. a bunch of clubs have invested in everything from gyms to day cares. we need to find an angle here. i have no problem with debt if its from investment. i have a problem with debt if its used for operational expenditure, which is what we've pretty much used it on. bar the moorabbin digs, but thats not the majority of it. we are not solely to blame for this. the reality is it's AFL debt due to how bad the stadia deal was and the insufficient funding provided to the clubs, so the AFL could bank role its self.

Blaming the stadium deal would suggest North and WB should have similar debt. They don't. Its due to being poorly run even with success. That's is why I say the previous CEO failed to perform .

 

[StCicatriz]

Blaming the stadium deal would suggest North and WB should have similar debt. They don't. Its due to being poorly run even with success. That's is why I say the previous CEO failed to perform .

great point!

 

[borderbarry]

Surely you’re taking the piss? The NBA is a pansy sport played over 48 minutes with 14 time outs! If you look at some you get fouled, they should be able to play every day.
The EPL is 90 minutes of passing the ball sideways and if you touch someone you get a yellow card. AFL is a brutal sport fitness wise and physicality wise. Give me a spell.

Hang on. The poor devils have to run up and down a huge court, 28 x 15 metres. Some of our players run that far without bouncing.the ball.

 

[plugger66]

Can’t we just keep it at 18 and play each team twice? I’m sick of the players union bitching about playing too much when leagues like the EPL and NBA play almost three games a week for a lot longer.

No impossible for the players and don’t have the grounds

 

[NeXus Nick]

I have been saying that we need to expand to 20 teams for years. Ultimately, I can see the comp going to 22 eventually. This is how I would do it.

2021 - Withdraw extra funding from North Melbourne and force them to relocate to Tassie and become Hobart Kangaroos. Total teams 18.
2025 - New teams created. One in Western Australia and one in South Australia. Total teams 20.
2030 - New teams created in New South Wales and Queensland. Total teams 22.
2030 - Each team plays all the other teams once which equals 21 games. Plus 1 week for Rivalry games and Derbies. Top 10 finals system broken up into the old final 5 system x 2. The winner of each Final 5 play in the Grand Final.

 

[plugger66]

I have been saying that we need to expand to 20 teams for years. Ultimately, I can see the comp going to 22 eventually. This is how I would do it.

2021 - Withdraw extra funding from North Melbourne and force them to relocate to Tassie and become Hobart Kangaroos. Total teams 18.
2025 - New teams created. One in Western Australia and one in South Australia. Total teams 20.
2030 - New teams created in New South Wales and Queensland. Total teams 22.
2030 - Each team plays all the other teams once which equals 21 games. Plus 1 week for Rivalry games and Derbies. Top 10 finals system broken up into the old final 5 system x 2. The winner of each Final 5 play in the Grand Final.

My god. Withdraw extra funding to north. Yep way to go. Maybe they do that to us

 

[NeXus Nick]

My god. Withdraw extra funding to north. Yep way to go. Maybe they do that to us

They won't do that to us. Unlike North, we have a huge supporter base.

 

[plugger66]

They won't do that to us. Unlike North, we have a huge supporter base.

Do we. We have more than north. Huge is Carlton when you consider how bad they have been. Anyway the afl aren’t going to withdraw extra funding. As if. I thought you wanted us in New Zealand for 3 games

 

[StCicatriz]

My god. Withdraw extra funding to north. Yep way to go. Maybe they do that to us

That's the worry. If the AFL wanted to kill us they could. We are so damn reliant on them. All club's are but we really are.

 

[plugger66]

That's the worry. If the AFL wanted to kill us they could. We are so damn reliant on them. All club's are but we really are.

Certainly are. Luckily the current administration want all the sides.

 

[Strahany]

Almost a blessing in disguise that we pulled out of Tassy when we did. Imagine if we were still playing there with this speculation going on. A club in disarray with a playing relationship already in place, and a history of star Tasmanian players. It would be too easy to flick us down there.

 

[NeXus Nick]

Do we. We have more than north. Huge is Carlton when you consider how bad they have been. Anyway the afl aren’t going to withdraw extra funding. As if. I thought you wanted us in New Zealand for 3 games

Good memory Plugger. When I was at Moorabbin in the pre-season to see the new facility I spoke to Matt Finnis regarding NZ. I implored him to not give up. I also congratulated him on signing up for China. I still feel and hope we get back to NZ. If we end up playing 2 games in NZ and 1 game in China each year we will never be in debt again. Plus I would expect a lot of members to sign up in NZ but more importantly anyone that migrates from NZ to Aus will automatically barrack for us. This is what is potentially most exciting.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I have been saying that we need to expand to 20 teams for years. Ultimately, I can see the comp going to 22 eventually. This is how I would do it.

2021 - Withdraw extra funding from North Melbourne and force them to relocate to Tassie and become Hobart Kangaroos. Total teams 18.
2025 - New teams created. One in Western Australia and one in South Australia. Total teams 20.
2030 - New teams created in New South Wales and Queensland. Total teams 22.
2030 - Each team plays all the other teams once which equals 21 games. Plus 1 week for Rivalry games and Derbies. Top 10 finals system broken up into the old final 5 system x 2. The winner of each Final 5 play in the Grand Final.

i like it how we are so arrogant to say it will be North who get their funding cut and pushed out of Melbourne .... truth of the matter is North supporters would be saying the same thing bout cutting the funding from us and sending us to tassie..
realistically us North and WB should be quietly shitting ourselves about getting pushed out .. we should be working together to keep all three of us viable cause when push come to shove it could realistically be any of us who go and given the Dogs won a flag this decade and North won a couple in the last 30 years i wouldnt be be so cocky to say its as simple as send North to tassie

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Good memory Plugger. When I was at Moorabbin in the pre-season to see the new facility I spoke to Matt Finnis regarding NZ. I implored him to not give up. I also congratulated him on signing up for China. I still feel and hope we get back to NZ. If we end up playing 2 games in NZ and 1 game in China each year we will never be in debt again. Plus I would expect a lot of members to sign up in NZ but more importantly anyone that migrates from NZ to Aus will automatically barrack for us. This is what is potentially most exciting.

thats a nice fantasy land you live in .... conferting NZ people into fans is not an easy task heck getting them interested into footy is a hard enough task let alone getting them to support our tem ... heck by that logic lets play a game in Mumbai ... billions of people in India and every Indian in Australia will then support us ... seriously do you honestly believe this trip you spout ...
selling game sure helps the financials but does nothing for member growth

 

[gringo2011]

Good memory Plugger. When I was at Moorabbin in the pre-season to see the new facility I spoke to Matt Finnis regarding NZ. I implored him to not give up. I also congratulated him on signing up for China. I still feel and hope we get back to NZ. If we end up playing 2 games in NZ and 1 game in China each year we will never be in debt again. Plus I would expect a lot of members to sign up in NZ but more importantly anyone that migrates from NZ to Aus will automatically barrack for us. This is what is potentially most exciting.

I still reckon concentrate on going back up the ladder and we won't have to prostitute ourselves for loose change.

 

[NeXus Nick]

I still reckon concentrate on going back up the ladder and we won't have to prostitute ourselves for loose change.

Hi Gringo, in theory I agree with you but we had 10 years at the top and still couldn’t wipe our debt.

 

[plugger66]

Hi Gringo, in theory I agree with you but we had 10 years at the top and still couldn’t wipe our debt.

And we had 3 years in NZ. Probably have one member because of it.

 

[jwikked]

Good memory Plugger. When I was at Moorabbin in the pre-season to see the new facility I spoke to Matt Finnis regarding NZ. I implored him to not give up. I also congratulated him on signing up for China. I still feel and hope we get back to NZ. If we end up playing 2 games in NZ and 1 game in China each year we will never be in debt again. Plus I would expect a lot of members to sign up in NZ but more importantly anyone that migrates from NZ to Aus will automatically barrack for us. This is what is potentially most exciting.

3 games overseas seems insane to me. I'm not a fan of the China game either. We can barely win a game when travelling within Australia.
People in NZ already have their sport. Not going to convert many to Aussie Rules. Same with China, it's a sponsorship exercise. It's not going to take off there either.

Win more games, and more Saints fans will come out of the woodwork. Saying we couldn't pay off our debt from the 2009/2010 seasons is irrelevant to now simply because the Marvel Stadium deal has changed since the AFL bought it, and is much more favourable.

The debt isn't the big deal some people tend to think it is.

 

[plugger66]

3 games overseas seems insane to me. I'm not a fan of the China game either. We can barely win a game when travelling within Australia.
People in NZ already have their sport. Not going to convert many to Aussie Rules. Same with China, it's a sponsorship exercise. It's not going to take off there either.

Win more games, and more Saints fans will come out of the woodwork. Saying we couldn't pay off our debt from the 2009/2010 seasons is irrelevant to now simply because the Marvel Stadium deal has changed since the AFL bought it, and is much more favourable.

The debt isn't the big deal some people tend to think it is.

It is with one thing. We pretty much have to do what the afl want. It doesn’t matter with player or coach payments though.

 

[Diehard Saint]

3 games overseas seems insane to me. I'm not a fan of the China game either. We can barely win a game when travelling within Australia.

Exactly - when last did we win a game against Port in Adelaide?
( I’m trying to forget the one we lost in the final seconds - those days we didn’t win the close ones.)

This year was disastrous in China but I still believe we have more chance to beat them there with no home ground advantage for them.

$3 mill over 3 years is not to be sneezed at. Besides, as Plugger said, I doubt we have a choice anyway.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Some of our kids have hardly traveled at all, let alone to China .

 

[StCicatriz]

Interesting.